IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[GrainneDhu]

I believe they said this area was a hunting access...I am not a hunter and somebody can correct me if I am wrong but I took it as they used this area to get to a hunting spot. I think most hunting in Iowa is done on private land...ie cornfields. I believe it is customary to aquire permission from the farmer to hunt on his land. my thinking is that this wildlife area butts up against privately owned cornfields (as shown in the pics of the cornfields at the entrance to 7 bridges). cornfields are many, many acres in size, so access to the land could be from several places....I hope I explained that right.

Requesting permission from the landowner is not only customary, it's showing good survival instincts. Typically what smart hunters do is get permission and ask who else has permission so that they can coordinate with anyone else who might be hunting the same land.

It is only idjit hunters who don't ask and they tend to be self-selecting for Darwin Awards.

As a landowner, my policy is typical of many people I know: I have one person that I give primary permission to hunt my land and it is up to him if he wants to give anyone else permission. All I ask is that he checks their tags himself and then they get in touch with me to let me know they'll be out. Which includes giving me their vehicle type and license tag or I will have it towed.

It makes my life more peaceful because when other people ask to hunt my land, I just refer them to the one guy who has permission and I casually mention he has some younger teen kids. No one wants to surprise a 14 year old on their first hunt. I have had no problems with trespassers.

 

[miimaa]

Because Duluth received 8+ inches of rain in a very short time span which overloaded the drainage system and caused flooding. The water in Duluth does not run down to IA.

I don't know what that has to do with this case.

I responded to someone else asking about flooding.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Thank you but I have read the threads and followed this story from day one.

Sorry for the assumption, it just seemed as though you weren't familiar with all of the facts and I was trying to point you to some helpful info.

 

[tiredblondy]

Guys I just got here and have been reading back a few pages and twitter and the link Dr Know posted.

Did I miss something? Where is the info about visual identification coming from?

Also another thing, I cannot imagine that there would not be footprints in that area. With the sandy bar the bodies would have had to be carried up there if delivered by boat or walked in. (? not sure that's a good statement as I don't understand the terrain)

Could they have been driven there? I keep thinking about how Laci Peterson was tracked by the dogs can that be reversed?

I wonder if they have had dogs scenting the path the bodies have taken?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Maybe the perp has a physical limitation that kept them from placing the bodies somewhere better hidden? It doesn't look like they were found very far off the road.

For all I know, the perp wanted more attention, and intended for them to be found sooner than they were.

In the summer, it would have looked like a wall of foliage right up to about five feet of the road or however wide a margin the county mows there. Something the size of a body could be within 3 feet of that mowed margin and not be found until after the first hard frosts of fall.

I'm not joking when I talk about the Iowa jungle.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Do we know if this area was searched back in July ?

No, it wasn't.

The search for the girls in July covered 12 square miles, anchored by where their bicycles were found by Meyer's Lake. Seven Bridges Park is more than 20 miles away. Simple math tells me it wasn't part of the search area.

 

[tiredblondy]

This is impossible. The Wapsi river, along which the girls were found, and the Cedar River, which Meyers Lake is connected to via a drain, are only connected indirectly via the Mississippi and Iowa Rivers. Also, rivers and streams in Iowa flow from north to south. So it would again be impossible for the girls to have drown and then floated north to where they were found.

:seeya:
Thanks so much. That sure helped me understand about the waterways!
FYI is your screen name from the handsome Copper on tv? just curious.

 

[GrainneDhu]

wildlife area does not =wild life preserve here in our State.

LOL! Sweetpea, I knew that but it never occurred to me that everyone wouldn't know it. Obviously I don't get off the farm often enough.

In Iowa, a "wildlife area" means a place where development is not allowed so that it preserves wildlife habitat.

Hunting is allowed and it is really needed. The deer herd in Iowa is huge, they don't have anything in the way of natural predators besides cars and if they were left unchecked, they would starve.

But only after they ate all the prettiest tulips.

 

[RNER]

:seeya:
Thanks so much. That sure helped me understand about the waterways!
FYI is your screen name from the handsome Copper on tv? just curious.

Are you referring to Anderson "Copper"?:floorlaugh:

 

[LisaB]

Your right Adden said, "bodies", now that makes me think that maybe they were not skeletal.

If what was found was skeletal remains, and he said so, the perp would probably realize that it was unlikely his/her DNA would be present. By saying "bodies" it may cause the perp to be concerned that decomposition was not as far along as he/she had hoped/assumed. That might result in a change in his behavior that would be noticed by those close to her/him or, possibly, those who may have him/her under surveillance waiting for him/her to do something "stupid" that would reveal his/her guilt.

 

[tiredblondy]

In the summer, it would have looked like a wall of foliage right up to about five feet of the road or however wide a margin the county mows there. Something the size of a body could be within 3 feet of that mowed margin and not be found until after the first hard frosts of fall.

I'm not joking when I talk about the Iowa jungle.

Hi Grainne, do you guys have Kudzu there? We have it here and it is horrible. One can see a basketball roll in it and then after going to the exact place still cannot find it. I understand about the jungle foliage.

 

[GrainneDhu]

SapphireSteel, maybe this will help you:

http://www.iowadnr.gov/Hunting/PlacestoHuntShoot/WildlifeManagementAreas.aspx

A Wildlife Management Area isn't the same as a wildlife preserve where animals are given "sanctuary", more or less.

In Iowa, another word for deer sanctuary is "town."

Iowa City has an estimated herd of 7000 deer within city limits. Every few years they hire sharpshooters to reduce the herd and every few years, there are a few people who get fainthearted at the thought of mean ol' hunters killing Bambi.

I guess they'd rather Bambi died of starvation, hit by car or disease...

 

[Ryloga]

There was a major flood in Duluth, Minn in June.

Respectfully, Duluth Minnesota is far, far from Iowa.

 

[tiredblondy]

Are you referring to Anderson "Copper"?:floorlaugh:

Cooper vs Copper :innocent: How funny. Naw it's the guy on that BBC show. Cooper would be a good screen name too. I think?

 

[hollyblue]

Due to the proximity to the river, the area where the bodies were located would have a sand and silt consistency allowing for easily digging of shallow graves. Although the forest canopy, high grass, and underbrush would have provided cover from vulchers for an extended period of time. If the bodies were in shallow graves the river and other scavengers would eventually uncover the remains, imo..
Imo, the girls were compliant and walked to the area where they met their demise, and their remains were located.

Either that or the girls could have met their demise at different times yet, dumped in the same general area...or walked there. If the latter, then the perp wouldn't want the last one left to see the other.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Does the waterway they were found by have a connection to the lake where the bikes were found?

No. Not even remotely close to a connection unless it is via vehicle over roads.

 

[GrainneDhu]

ah! Yes, lots of critter shooting goes on at this time of year. My dog is scared to death the whole time as he is gun shy and we hear guns going off all day long during rifle season.

Off topic note: dog owners can often make a positive change in the dog's attitude if they give the dog a special treat every time they hear a gunshot.

It doesn't work with dogs that are truly terrified beyond thought but for dogs that are just scared, it can often turn them from scared into a dog that drools every time they hear a gunshot.

Whenever you have to leave your dog alone, it also helps to confine the dog and leave a radio playing fairly loudly to muffle outside noises. Pick something that is soothing, like classical music.

There is also a product called Dog Appeasing Pheromone (D.A.P.) that mimics the pheromones emitted by nursing *****es. Again, it doesn't work on every dog but the dogs it works for, it is a miracle product. You can get a room plug-in diffuser or you can get a spray that you apply to a bandanna you tie around the dog's neck (loosely, so the dog can slip out if it gets caught on something).

 

[callyn]

It has been 5 months.

and......? Respectfully, what does this mean?

 

[tiredblondy]

I wasn't thinking that they were washed all the way from the lake to here, though that's a possibility. I was thinking more that either they were buried somewhere and washed away, or they were put into the river and drifted to here.

That might explain why they're a little distance apart -- two objects thrown into water don't usually wash up in exactly the same spot.

BBM
I like Carbuff's idea. If they were buried close to there or in the same area then it flooded I agree that could account for the distance between bodies. That might also preserve the clothes especially if in a plastic bag initially.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Hi old pals,

I just read the news this morning. .

FWIW, my two cents:

The girls were abducted by either a stranger or strangers, or a very peripheral acquaintance. I believe they were grabbed and shoved into the abduction vehicle not far from Elizabeth's house where they were last seen.

The were killed in the abduction vehicle. I also believe both girls were sexually assaulted.

Their bodies were dumped within 48 ( but more likely 12) hours in the place where they were found yesterday.

The remains are mostly, if not totally skeletonized and were ID'd by clothing and dental records. There was no "freezer remains" IMO , nor were the girls held alive for more than a few hours after they were abducted.

This crime is not related to the drug convictions of any family members.

The girls may have originally been placed closer together but may have been moved by animal activity.

I do not think any special emphasis need be placed on wording of "bodies" or "remains", nor on the reporting that they were "visually identifiable" , or on the location of the recovery as it applies to the perp's residence. 23 miles is, IMO, pooping where you eat. In other words, if the perp lives in W'loo, E'dale or Brenmer Co., the placement of the bodies is still basically in their backyard.

I wouldn't read too much into the dump site ( sorry) other than that the perp(s) had wheels and needed to get rid of two little girls' bodies. I'm pretty sure the murderer is local, but in a broader sense. Like a tri-county kind of way.

Anyway, just where I sit on this new info. I spent alot of time here in the beginning and honestly, I still think they were nabbed as a crime of opportunity.

JMO

RIP sweet girls.