IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[foxbluff]

In Memory of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook

"Our hearts and prayers go out to the families and friends of those precious little girls. The Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office pledges vigilance in our pursuit of those responsible and will extend every resource to concluding this case so that justice may prevail."

-Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson

 

[tlcya]

FY=fiscal year
Maybe?

 

[marie-chantal]

I think it means "fiscal year".

Sorry, I meant the "Meyer Property" part of the ledger. Anyone know what the Meyer property is? I couldn't figure it out by searching. Are there any locals around here who know Meyer?

Sorry for the confusion, Roseofsharon. I'm dealing with a headache right now, and probably not writing in a coherent fashion.:blushing:

 

[StormyNights]

Thanks for posting the picture. Hubby & I walk in the woods year round, we have access to lots of property. We see this same terrain in all 4 season's and in the summer we have to walk around in some places because of the marsh grasses. Some of the grasses will cut you like a paper cut. That area where the people (LE) are standing would have been 3 1/2 feet tall or more. There would have been no reason for anyone to walk thought that grass, except to run from something or to put something there to hide. jmo

I just can't get the image of this photo out of my head. I can't stop wondering why they are so far apart but yet so close together? IMO, I think those girls were walked into those woods alive and they met their tragic end there. One of the girls saw what happened to her cousin and did try to run, MOO. I think it would be hard to carry two bodies, either together or one at a time, where they are located and then to just drop them where they were. Why not just put them together? I suppose the possibility of animals moving one or both of them is always there, but for some reason it just bothers the ever living crap outta me that they are that far apart. I really truly believe that one of them tried to run, bless their little heart......this is just so sick and frustrating. I pray that whoever did this to these precious girls makes that fatal mistake real soon and LE can nail his/her/their butts to the wall with a fury so great it makes ones head spin! :spinner:

All JMO and all that fun stuff :moo:

 

[Claudette]

I just can't get the image of this photo out of my head. I can't stop wondering why they are so far apart but yet so close together? IMO, I think those girls were walked into those woods alive and they met their tragic end there. One of the girls saw what happened to her cousin and did try to run, MOO. I think it would be hard to carry two bodies, either together or one at a time, where they are located and then to just drop them where they were. Why not just put them together? I suppose the possibility of animals moving one or both of them is always there, but for some reason it just bothers the ever living crap outta me that they are that far apart. I really truly believe that one of them tried to run, bless their little heart......this is just so sick and frustrating. I pray that whoever did this to these precious girls makes that fatal mistake real soon and LE can nail his/her/their butts to the wall with a fury so great it makes ones head spin! :spinner:

All JMO and all that fun stuff :moo:

My thoughts - notice they're about the same distance from the yellow tape - I'm going to assume the yellow tape is the easily accessible walking area with low vegetation (you can see what I mean at the bottom left portion) that is surrounding this area. I think the perp wanted to keep them a little bit apart so took them in at different places in this little vegetative area. But could only go in as far as he did with both girls.

I hope that makes sense?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Can someone point me in the direction of info on the "110 house sweep"? I have seen this referenced a couple times but I am not familiar with it. Tia!

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Finally! Found the link.

http://www.wxow.com/story/19858307/missing-girls-investigators-recanvassing-evansdale-neighborhoods

 

[foxbluff]

I wonder if this man is also responsible for the dead man found under a bridge today???

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Cedar-Rapids-Police-Investigate-Suspicious-Death-182660221.html

 

[dadgum]

Does anyone remember how long it took to recover Caylee Anthony's remains? IMO the Iowa site is much more remote, and contains much more and larger wildlife. Though her bones would have been smaller than the girls', there are two people to recover at this site. Just seems to me they recovered and had enough to autopsy fairly quickly in comparison, though there was no flooding to contend with.

Remains found in the woods here are often sparse..sometimes complete remains are never found. Some have been spread over acres after several months.

Wildlife native to Iowa http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Publications/IAN601.pdf

 

[SapphireSteel]

My original post from the time of the 110 house sweep -

Originally Posted by SapphireSteel
I just read one of the articles thoroughly and this stood out -

Several callers to the KWWL newsroom said they saw law enforcement activity Wednesday night, and wondered what was going on in Evansdale.

The callers and e-mailers said several law enforcement vehicles were on the streets and that they saw at least one helicopter in the skies above the community.
Wednesday evening, Black Hawk County Sheriff's Department Chief Deputy Captain Richard Abben confirmed with KWWL that there is additional law enforcement presence in Evansdale.

He said DCI investigators have about 110 homes they want to visit in this effort. Abben explained there are some people who live in the area who were not home during the initial door-to-door search. There are also new families who have moved into the neighborhood surrounding Meyers Lake.

KWWL has not confirmed the use of a helicopter Wednesday night in Evansdale. However, law enforcement agencies around the country often use helicopters, or other aircraft, equipped with FLIR thermal imaging technology. FLIR airborne thermal imaging systems have been around for more than 25 years. FLIR stands for Forward Looking Infrared Technology.

This technology lets investigators see in total darkness and in most kinds of weather conditions, including fog, smoke and haze.

By using wavelengths longer than those used by a conventional night-vision camera, FLIR creates an image using infrared energy. The technology senses infrared radiation. The use of long wave infrared allows detection of heat, including body heat. Most of these highly advanced systems also use digital imaging processing to greatly improve image quality.

http://www.wxow.com/story/19858307/m...-neighborhoods

Thoughts -

There was a large operation centred on a small area of Evansdale on Wednesday night.

That investigation included extra officers, helicopters, etc, so it sounds as though they saturated the neighbourhood.

The inclusion of the helicopter with the infrared tells me they are looking for something definite in those 110 homes.

I had thought the infrared was for soil disturbance (potential graves) but they'd done that earlier in the search.

What if....

What if the blitz on Wednesday night was to question each house, all at once, ascertain the occupancy, then compare it to infrareds of live people?

What if Lizzie and Lyric are still alive, hidden in one/some of those 110 houses, and LE know it or suspect it, they just can't prove it because someone's lying?

Far fetched I know, but the FBI did say they believed the girls were still alive...what if they are right?

It's Sunday morning here so it's 100 days exactly since they disappeared. I feel like I've stumbled across a little glimmer of hope.

I think I posted that around 1 November 30 Oct or so. The sweep occurred at 100 days and the girls were found 45 days later.

 

[tlcya]

Wonder when LE will release autopsy results, COD or a statement confirming ME ID of bodies? I know IA is not like FL so sunshine laws will not apply. Any Iowans got any thoughts as to if, when and how much info may be released regarding autopsy.

COD and TOD would at least clear up a lot of the rumors and speculation.

 

[Jules71]

My original post from the time of the 110 house sweep -

Originally Posted by SapphireSteel
I just read one of the articles thoroughly and this stood out -

Several callers to the KWWL newsroom said they saw law enforcement activity Wednesday night, and wondered what was going on in Evansdale.

The callers and e-mailers said several law enforcement vehicles were on the streets and that they saw at least one helicopter in the skies above the community.
Wednesday evening, Black Hawk County Sheriff's Department Chief Deputy Captain Richard Abben confirmed with KWWL that there is additional law enforcement presence in Evansdale.

He said DCI investigators have about 110 homes they want to visit in this effort. Abben explained there are some people who live in the area who were not home during the initial door-to-door search. There are also new families who have moved into the neighborhood surrounding Meyers Lake.

KWWL has not confirmed the use of a helicopter Wednesday night in Evansdale. However, law enforcement agencies around the country often use helicopters, or other aircraft, equipped with FLIR thermal imaging technology. FLIR airborne thermal imaging systems have been around for more than 25 years. FLIR stands for Forward Looking Infrared Technology.

This technology lets investigators see in total darkness and in most kinds of weather conditions, including fog, smoke and haze.

By using wavelengths longer than those used by a conventional night-vision camera, FLIR creates an image using infrared energy. The technology senses infrared radiation. The use of long wave infrared allows detection of heat, including body heat. Most of these highly advanced systems also use digital imaging processing to greatly improve image quality.

http://www.wxow.com/story/19858307/m...-neighborhoods

Thoughts -

There was a large operation centred on a small area of Evansdale on Wednesday night.

That investigation included extra officers, helicopters, etc, so it sounds as though they saturated the neighbourhood.

The inclusion of the helicopter with the infrared tells me they are looking for something definite in those 110 homes.

I had thought the infrared was for soil disturbance (potential graves) but they'd done that earlier in the search.

What if....

What if the blitz on Wednesday night was to question each house, all at once, ascertain the occupancy, then compare it to infrareds of live people?

What if Lizzie and Lyric are still alive, hidden in one/some of those 110 houses, and LE know it or suspect it, they just can't prove it because someone's lying?

Far fetched I know, but the FBI did say they believed the girls were still alive...what if they are right?

It's Sunday morning here so it's 100 days exactly since they disappeared. I feel like I've stumbled across a little glimmer of hope.

I think I posted that around 1 November 30 Oct or so. The sweep occurred at 100 days and the girls were found 45 days later.

Thank you! Very interesting!

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[SapphireSteel]

Does anyone remember how long it took to recover Caylee Anthony's remains? IMO the Iowa site is much more remote, and contains much more and larger wildlife. Though her bones would have been smaller than the girls', there are two people to recover at this site. Just seems to me they recovered and had enough to autopsy fairly quickly in comparison, though there was no flooding to contend with.

Remains found in the woods here are often sparse..sometimes complete remains are never found. Some have been spread over acres after several months.

Wildlife native to Iowa http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Publications/IAN601.pdf

I linked a scientific paper that states that bone scatter is directly proportionate to the length of time the body has been exposed.

As they were referring to "bodies" not "remains" in this case, it is inferred the girls were intact...which in turn, infers they had not been there long. I'm wondering if they've been there 45 days

http://library-resources.cqu.edu.au/...S351900103.pdf

 

[mysticrose]

Wow, after seeing the photos of the area the girls were found a million thoughts went through my head.....

What does this to children :furious: any human for that matter, and be ok with themselves...

Sorrow for their families just how devestating..........

I am of the opinion that this is a well know area for this person, located at a dead end road, through the trees next to the river, perhaps a quiet fishing spot once for someone was my first thought.
Maybe someone will rec. this area as somewhere they spent with someone else fishing as a secrect kind of spot kwim....

Prayers..................................

 

[Foxfire]

Thanks for posting the picture. Hubby & I walk in the woods year round, we have access to lots of property. We see this same terrain in all 4 season's and in the summer we have to walk around in some places because of the marsh grasses. Some of the grasses will cut you like a paper cut. That area where the people (LE) are standing would have been 3 1/2 feet tall or more. There would have been no reason for anyone to walk thought that grass, except to run from something or to put something there to hide. jmo

Deer, feral hogs, and other animals bed down in high grass. I researched the feral hog population in Iowa and they seem to be plentiful. They frequent river banks, corn fields, and deserted camping areas foraging for food.. Hogs travel in packs, have an excellent sense of smell, and will excavate the contents of a shallow grave over time.

Most times there are deer/animal trails that run parallel on both sides of rivers & creeks.

 

[CoachSue]

I wonder if this man is also responsible for the dead man found under a bridge today???

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Cedar-Rapids-Police-Investigate-Suspicious-Death-182660221.html

This says the woman that was killed was his mother!
http://www.kwwl.com/story/20294371/...th-murder-in-cedar-rapids-death-investigation

 

[SapphireSteel]

Deer, feral hogs, and other animals bed down in high grass. I researched the feral hog population in Iowa and they seem to be plentiful. They frequent river banks, corn fields, and deserted camping areas foraging for food.. Hogs travel in packs, have an excellent sense of smell, and will excavate the contents of a shallow grave over time.

Most times there are deer/animal trails that run parallel on both sides of rivers & creeks.

Pigs will happily eat a live human, let alone a dead one.

It really does sound as if they've not been there long at all. Not 45 days, anyway. :moo:

 

[peeples]

Wonder when LE will release autopsy results, COD or a statement confirming ME ID of bodies? I know IA is not like FL so sunshine laws will not apply. Any Iowans got any thoughts as to if, when and how much info may be released regarding autopsy.

COD and TOD would at least clear up a lot of the rumors and speculation.

FWIW there are aspects of Evelyn Miller's case I think are just now being released and it's been what like 5 years i think.....

Iowa is really hit or miss how much they release. and it's an even bigger gamble with the law enforcement around here.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Tnere's what they release, and what gets leaked.

Smart reporters can question people in such a way that they accidentally reveal details.

 

[borndem]

For those of you that believe the girls were killed immediately after or close to the time of abduction and the dumped right away, what are the theories about their bodies being so well preserved? I have no idea what to believe but I just can't figure out how they could be so well-preserved and intact after 5 months in the wilderness. Is there some environmental or biological reason that this could have occurred without any additional "refrigeration"?

If their bodies were as "well-preserved" as it sounds like they are, IMO they were in captivity for all those months (we've certainly seen that happen before, but it's risky) or they were somehow preserved in a way that their dead bodies would decompose at a very slow rate. If left out in the open in July (even in Iowa), their bodies would decompose rapidly -- especially if not in water or buried. Insect activity starts very soon after a body dies, and in that area, there must be plenty of wildlife to scatter remains. You may recall reading about Ted Bundy's body storage areas when he was killing all those young women in Washington and stashing them at Taylor Mountain.

In temperate climates, the body can become completely skeletonized in 30--40 days; in cooler climates, it may take approx. 128 days. Decomposition starts as soon as 4 minutes after the body dies, according to the info in the article in the link below.

from
http://www.sgm.ac.uk/pubs/micro_today/pdf/110108.pdf

Be warned -- this is quite graphic & contains a few very graphic pics of decomposing human remains.

Hmmmm. So what did happen?? And will we ever know??

 

[WideOpen]

I followed Lyric and Elizabeths case earlier and have returned and been following since they have been found.

In regards to the "bodies" being found and speculation on the possibility of them recently having been "disposed of" and perhaps being kept in a freezer for a time or recently killed and "dumped" I have not seen anyone mention that they could have been kept in a basement. I'm from the midwest and know the homes have basements. Now I live in the south and we DO NOT have basements here. Could the 110 house sweep have spooked the perp into killing the girls now?
Also, someone mentioned awhile ago that the LE kept saying they believed Lyric and Elizabeth were still alive. I would have to dig into past statements from LE to verify this but it does make me wonder whether LE had evidence that they were alive and being kept. I will try and dig up some FACTS to see if I can make these thoughts stick at all.

RIP sweet Elizabeth and Lyric

jmo

ps sorry if this is not articulated well, I am under the weather and cant get these girls off my mind.