IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[otto]

I think their reason for being at the location where the bodies were found was to dump the bodies, possibly the murders were committed there as well. Why would someone have to have a reason for being there?

I could be wrong entirely, but it does not look all that remote to me, nor does it look like a thickly wooded area. Some trees, yes, maybe tall weeds. But not nearly as thick and overgrown as the area I am from. We can walk a quarter of a mile behind our house and be in woods so thick you can get lost before you know it. So isn't it possible that even someone who does not know the area that well could stumble across this place by accident? There is a lake close by and I noticed that it wasn't that far away from where cars/trucks could get to. I just don't get this idea that someone had to know the area very well. Isn't that how so many places got discovered in this country to begin with? By exploring? It's not like it's 100 miles from civilization.

My first thought was that they were abducted on Friday at noon and murdered when the sun went down. I assumed that they had been there the entire time, that they were identified by some clothing and the fact that they were the only two missing children in the area.

I read something about JVM here, so I read the transcripts ... that is the only place where I have seen a reference to "dump site" and "refrigeration". That's a pretty crazy rumor to start!

It has to be one or the other: either they were immediately murdered, or they were kept alive for some time and then taken to the seven bridges park. Refrigeration is a wild, long shot from the "fertile imagination" of a talking head. "Dump site" has a 50% chance of being correct.

 

[pearl]

Is anyone keeping current with who has been arrested or taken to jail immediately before or since Elizabeth and Lyric were found? I can't remember any names except for family names from this case. Would be interesting to know.

 

[cindersoot]

If they are forensic tents and not sheets, they could be positioned where they are to help with sifting for small bones,and not be the actual locations where the bodies were found at all.

Forensic tents are not puptents,those are laid on the ground.

 

[otto]

Wonderful, thanks.

Could they be in a ditch, or dry creek bed? I can't quite make it out, but it sort of looks like a bit of a ditch - looks like the trail is about 10 feet to the left. That would make them very difficult to find.

 

[otto]

They look like they could be forensic tents.

They're too small. Look at the height of the men and the length of the sheet. The sheets appear to be about 4-5 five feet in length, 3 feet wide, folded over in some areas ... more like body bags.

 

[cindersoot]

Could they be in a ditch, or dry creek bed? I can't quite make it out, but it sort of looks like a bit of a ditch - looks like the trail is about 10 feet to the left. That would make them very difficult to find.

It looks like small graves, maybe shallow graves.

 

[Confusion]

I bet that's it! Now I really do feel dumb! Of course they aren't just laid on the ground like a sheet!

EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure. The people in the photo are clearly standing upright but the white things don't have the same 3 dimensional look.

They must be off the ground a bit; you can see shadows under them. At least my eyes can (maybe they aren't really there.)

 

[iSleuth]

Im 90 miles south and dont know this area at all but, from reports here at
WS and with Google maps, there are few roads in and out of this
untended park, with farms on both sides. The only way in or out without
being seen would have to be under the over of darkness, and then its a
walk from the road to the body locations .. this selects for somebody who
knew this area and perhaps knew there were no campers there on the
day/night the girls get deposited there ... someone familiar with this area.
A purposeful event vs random probability .. someoneuld with prior knowledge
of this area spefifically. (otherwise just dump the girls on any road at
night if they are deceased and be gone).

Maybe even an opportunistic moment in the day time...for a few people - posing - looking like they were hunting ( not saying the hunters who called it in) but people say...dressed like hunters with gear / duffle type bags stopping ..packing repacking...easily had enough time to quickly leave one ..then the other. They could know this area either by hunting there previously or scoping it out.
Until recently I believe locals have said these areas had very high brush which was harvested and grass which is now frozen down, which made them very visible atleast that very day. Thank god! Another week...between the river and the snow...It would be a different story. Which is what maybe "they" were depending on.

I hope they are caught soon and a hard working jury is in the stand for the trial.

Sending prayers to the families and to E and L too.

 

[princessk]

Could they be in a ditch, or dry creek bed? I can't quite make it out, but it sort of looks like a bit of a ditch - looks like the trail is about 10 feet to the left. That would make them very difficult to find.

All I can make of this is that they are laying in a bunch of weeds....

 

[tlcya]

ullhair:

i love you!

 

[otto]

It looks like small graves, maybe shallow graves.

The sheets are not flat. Maybe they were there in July and no one noticed them - since the park is not really a public park anymore. It looks like the plants are dead and leaning over, maybe they were hidden in the weeds all this time.

I think the guy that did this really had this planned. He abducted the girls, perhaps lured them, perhaps staged their bikes, perhaps met them again where the bikes were found. A full investigation was delayed until almost the next day, when crime scene was first used - all a distinct advantage to the perp. Now that the girls have been found, again, we have a very secluded place - same thing was said about where the bikes were located. i would almost be looking for someone that is smug in his belief that he is smarter than everyone else. I see this as one person ... it seems much too organized for two people. Finding these children seems as remote as Morgan Harrington being found, but it happened.

 

[passionflower]

I wonder if it's true that a murderer always returns to the scene of the crime.

I do know that some serial killers, including Ted Bundy and Gary Ridgeway a/k/a the Green River Killer revisited some of their victims. But I don't know if that is "normal", or as normal as these folks get.

In this case, if the girls were abducted/killed for non-sexual purposes, do you feel like the killer(s) would return to the site? If they didn't kill for sexual thrills, would they get any kind of sick satisfaction by returning to visit the bodies?

I'm jumping off your post, cindersoot, and my questions aren't necessarily directed to you.

we know scott peterson watched the bay for awhile

 

[tlcya]

My random thoughts...

1. I believe 7 Bridges was a dump site that was scouted out by the perp.

2, The perp had plenty of time to find the perfect spot (and I think it was very familiar area for him). Harvest was completed 1 month ahead of schedule this year because of the drought. Most fields were harvested by mid-October at the latest. The number of farm workers would depend on the size of the equipment used and the size of the fields. (Each square mile of land is 640 acres.) (On average I'd estimate 3 workers per field....one in the combine, one in the chase cart, and one driving semi....this can certainly fluctuate by farmer). When I look at this photo

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...ion_12862912-cdd5-11e1-a9b3-0019bb2963f4.html

the first thing I notice is that the ground to the right of the road has tillage already done. Because of the amount of debris on top I think this was planted to corn this year. On the left side of the road I believe it was planted to soybeans because there is no tillage. I don't see any NH3 tracks in the bean field....nor do I see them in the corn field. Whoever farms this ground on both sides of the road may be waiting to make sure the ground temp is right before applying nh3.

3. Having a car from another county come down the road while harvesting isn't that unusual. Many hunters start a month ahead of time watching for deer/pheasant activity. Pheasant hunting started Oct 27 and it's lawful to hunt the ditches in Iowa....which many do. So to have people come down the road to the entrance of this park wouldn't be unusual....especially if they were known in the area to hunt. The farmer may think the person is checking for wildlife, when in reality the person was checking to see the pattern of people activity.

4. Temps just started to cool down, so 7 Bridges keg party activities may be starting to slow down (Wapsie Valley Jr & Sr High is 5 miles drive .... and I'm pretty sure the student body would use this as a party site. It's remote, but it's also a good place because if you get raided you've got plenty to hide behind, then walk home later).

5. Farmers are done with tillage, high schoolers are looking for warmer places to party, snow should be coming soon (like within the next 24 hrs) and that is why I think the drop happened within the last few weeks. MOO

:welcome: Great post, hope you will continue to share your thoughts.

 

[otto]

OT ... on my way home this afternoon, I saw this ... swerved all over the road to snap some shots. The sunset was a fireball.

 

[tlcya]

Many threads ago, I unintentionally got a big discussion going about pig farms when I asked if there were any in the Evansdale/Waterloo area. And now there's a whole feral pig discussion taking place on this thread.

I, for one, have learned more about pigs than I ever wanted to know!

Lmao.

Someone mentioned wild boar or hogs and I followed up on that thought nd before you know I became inadvertantly responsible for pages of danged pigs,

Can we all agree that pigs are now officially one big fat piggy red herring?

Heavens, lol.

 

[Marilynilpa]

OT ... on my way home this afternoon, I saw this ... swerved all over the road to snap some shots. The sunset was a fireball.

Wow, Otto, that is awesome!

 

[Angleena]

They're too small. Look at the height of the men and the length of the sheet. The sheets appear to be about 4-5 five feet in length, 3 feet wide, folded over in some areas ... more like body bags.

They look like forensic body tents to me. Those are generally 7ft x 4ft x 2.5ft.

http://www.hellotrade.com/safetrack-baavhammar-ab/disposal-body-tent.html

 

[Marilynilpa]

Lmao.

Someone mentioned wild boar or hogs and I followed up on that thought nd before you know I became inadvertantly responsible for pages of danged pigs,

Can we all agree that pigs are now officially one big fat piggy red herring?

Heavens, lol.

It just shows how desperate we all are for something concrete to talk about.

 

[tlcya]

Beautiful pic otto. Just beautiful.

 

[dadgum]

Lmao.

Someone mentioned wild boar or hogs and I followed up on that thought nd before you know I became inadvertantly responsible for pages of danged pigs,

Can we all agree that pigs are now officially one big fat piggy red herring?

Heavens, lol.

Hear! Hear!!