IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[otto]

What is Lotties' Lounge - a bar? Who frequents that place? Is it
possible some drunk hit one or both of them then threw them into his
vehicle to cover it up ....

That's a misprint. It should be Loftys Lounge. They have a facebook page.

 

[passionflower]

Just came home from the funeral home (of all places)
sad holiday for my friends.
Trying to catch up...............
still no new news?
No arrests?
No POI?
TIA

 

[georger]

maybe down a little ways on the other side :waitasec: Couldn't that be interpreted as meaning "down a little ways on the other side of the street?" Crossing Lafayette is no big deal, it's still close, just across the street. The map makes it look far, but it's really close. Many people walk back and forth across it from one business to another. It would still be very close to home.

Did that alley offer a short cut the girls might take, especially since it
goes behind that bar - an interesting place with activity to the girls?

When I was a kid biking we took every alley we could find between our
regular street routes ... partly curiosity and very often a perceived short
cut for us kids ...

 

[Squeeze]

Heather strikes me as a literal person, so if she said bones, I suspect that she meant bones.

IMO, my feeling is the.opposite is true. As a very religious person, she has made it very clear that Elizabeth is in heaven and what is left of her physical body is not important. I don't think she had given much thought to what remains there are. She doesn't allow her mind to go there.

 

[georger]

That's a misprint. It should be Loftys Lounge. They have a facebook page.

People go in and out of the back doors of bars as much as the front door,
especially if they have been there before! Its almost a badge of honor!
One's private entrance! Kids who have been there before and were known
wouldnt have an hesitation about using the back door, from the alley, off
their bikes ... especially in small towns. Ive seen this done a million times
having grown up in just such a small rural town. You lean your bike up
against the fence or building and just go in ... you are a regular and
known, even as a kid (10 years old)! As a kid you feel completely
comfortable doing that .... risk never enters your mind. You are known
and a regular ...

That place really grabs my attention in terms of these girls ... you might
not want anything or a glass of water (or chips), or just to look around ..
its part of your world ... and your world is safe, you assume as a kid!

 

[passionflower]

People go in and out of the back doors of bars as much as the front door,
especially if they have been there before! Its almost a badge of honor!
One's private entrance! Kids who have been there before and were known
wouldnt have an hesitation about using the back door, from the alley, off
their bikes ... especially in small towns. Ive seen this done a million times
having grown up in just such a small rural town. You lean your bike up
against the fence or building and just go in ... you are a regular and
known, even as a kid (10 years old)! As a kid you feel completely
comfortable doing that .... risk never enters your mind. You are known
and a regular ...

That place really grabs my attention in terms of these girls ... you might
not want anything or a glass of water (or chips), or just to look around ..
its part of your world ... and your world is safe, you assume as a kid!

Oh no, this just caught my attention also..............the bar! Did they know someone that worked there.......could of given them treats.....groomed them?
a couple of guys watched them? This has my hinky meter on alert!
drugs and bars and men??????

 

[chelsea6]

My eyes went to the same place! Plausible scenario.

This place might be opportunistic in that it attracts the right/wrong
people, offers enough seclusion, no camera ... and seclusion plus a place
with undesirables may be key here... vs. a mall parking lot which is far
more open and has more ordinary people to see things happening.

Has LE interviewed the people who were at this place during the critical
hour ?

I'm just taking it for granted they did, I don't know. Not unusual for kids in this town to go into these hometown bars that serve food, and I'm curious as to why a block off their "normal" route is written off so easily.

 

[Squeeze]

What is Lotties' Lounge - a bar? Who frequents that place? Is it
possible some drunk hit one or both of them then threw them into his
vehicle to cover it up ....

I believe its Loftys, not Lotties. I THINK.it's still a bar, although there is newly opened restaurant near there called Red's. Not sure if its the same building or not. I do remember paring alongside the building, and directly behind is a business - I think a trucking company - and ive always wondered if they had surveillance cameras. I didn't notice any, though. There was a truck parked there, I assume the owner's, andthe entire back window was the missing poster. Just Fyi.

On that note, LE once said that they have hours of videotape, but they had no idea of what they were looking for, and they needed help, like a certain vehicle to look for. I have never heard of anything to come of that.

 

[Squeeze]

Correction- I think Reds is that tan/brown building tot the left of Loftys.

 

[chelsea6]

Oh no, this just caught my attention also..............the bar! Did they know someone that worked there.......could of given them treats.....groomed them?
a couple of guys watched them? This has my hinky meter on alert!
drugs and bars and men??????

They could have easily been familiar with this place as it is a small town meaning familes get food from here a lot. They have a whole booth area next to the bar to sit down and eat. And like I said, the bar part of it has a beer garden outback with a long tall solid wooden fence all around it, then the road behind it.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

Correction- I think Reds is that tan/brown building tot the left of Loftys.

Looked them both up, they are close to one another, but not the same address.

(Let's just say, 3466 and 3480 close)

 

[georger]

Oh no, this just caught my attention also..............the bar! Did they know someone that worked there.......could of given them treats.....groomed them?
a couple of guys watched them? This has my hinky meter on alert!
drugs and bars and men??????

Of ALL the places in that area, that place has opportunity,
especially for an innocent child unaware and not operating with
adult awareness. Things could wrong in a split instant with the
child never expecting they were at risk... all it takes is the wrong
adult person. Two girls abducted takes more explaining but behind the
palce in relative seclusion it could be over with in a minute, literally?

Everyone's attention has been at Myers Lake as the abduction site
when in reality it may have been much closer to home, in the very narrow
time frame the video shows, in a place which offers the right kinds of
people, seclusion, time, ... and the game is on.

When I first saw the speed at which those girls were moving in that video
two things rung out to me - either being chased, or, typical kids riding
pell-mell oblivious and having a good time as kids do, and that adds up to
"unaware of risk" as kids often operate ... then down the alley as a short
cut or place of interest, behind the bar, maybe stop, maybe into the bar,
and opportunity and someone ceases the opportunity for whatever
reason, and the kids are in instant trouble -

If I were LE I would be all over the people who were in that bar at that
hour! For all we know those people who were there may be discussing this
in private and exploring what-ifs as we write here! (especially if they saw
the girls there prior to abduction which the rest of the world is saying happened
later, at a Lake far removed from this scene). It needs exploring if this is a viable
option -

Who was in that bar at that time and have they been interviewed?

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I had read in MSM more than once that, while MSM seemed quite focused on Meyers Lake in the beginning, LE was not. In fact, a relatively small number were even there while that lake was being drained, and that a lot of the focus was closer to where the Collins live. I also read that LE did attempt to collect surveillance videos from numerous places up in north Evansdale, with the First Security State Bank, as well as Fareway Grocery specifically named. (They also interviewed a few employees of Fareway, who had been "out back on a cigarette break" that day).
OUR view of events has been mostly via MSM, and that was focused on that lake, primarily, and I feel such has had a tendency to skew perspectives a wee bit. JMO

 

[TeenyTaurus]

Oh, and FWIW, that small "strip mall" seems to have been about half empty. Even the post office had shut down was was vacant since the previous October! In short, a relatively 'desolate' spot, in a way.

 

[chelsea6]

Did that alley offer a short cut the girls might take, especially since it
goes behind that bar - an interesting place with activity to the girls?

When I was a kid biking we took every alley we could find between our
regular street routes ... partly curiosity and very often a perceived short
cut for us kids ...

All they had to do was just cross the street at any point. Not much traffic in this little town. Or they could have gone straight on Sipple Avenue, crossed the road there leading between the bar and the other building to go behind the bar there.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I've mentioned in the past the surveillance camera at Cornbelt Auctions, and my issue with gauging the speed of the riders in that piece of film. Some camera systems are, by design, of a very low frame rate. Think of it as like those little "flip books" one can make with paper, and individual static images on each "page." A low frame rate would actually improve still shots in a video, at the expense of the relative speed of action, enhancing ID of whatever trespasses, if you will. Run as a video, then, the actual speed of action would be distorted. (I'm sure the FBI would take such into consideration).

 

[chelsea6]

I believe its Loftys, not Lotties. I THINK.it's still a bar, although there is newly opened restaurant near there called Red's. Not sure if its the same building or not. I do remember paring alongside the building, and directly behind is a business - I think a trucking company - and ive always wondered if they had surveillance cameras. I didn't notice any, though. There was a truck parked there, I assume the owner's, andthe entire back window was the missing poster. Just Fyi.

On that note, LE once said that they have hours of videotape, but they had no idea of what they were looking for, and they needed help, like a certain vehicle to look for. I have never heard of anything to come of that.

Lofty's keeps their back door locked. You have to go in and have someone open it for you. Usually only entertainment or deliveries come in that way. Oh, and their beer garden is right out from surrounded by one of those orange plastic snow fences
.

 

[otto]

I'm just taking it for granted they did, I don't know. Not unusual for kids in this town to go into these hometown bars that serve food, and I'm curious as to why a block off their "normal" route is written off so easily.

Why would they go across Lafayette to a bar to "buy chips" when they could buy them closer to home?

 

[passionflower]

Of ALL the places in that area, that place has opportunity,
especially for an innocent child unaware and not operating with
adult awareness. Things could wrong in a split instant with the
child never expecting they were at risk... all it takes is the wrong
adult person. Two girls abducted takes more explaining but behind the
palce in relative seclusion it could be over with in a minute, literally?

Everyone's attention has been at Myers Lake as the abduction site
when in reality it may have been much closer to home, in the very narrow
time frame the video shows, in a place which offers the right kinds of
people, seclusion, time, ... and the game is on.

When I first saw the speed at which those girls were moving in that video
two things rung out to me - either being chased, or, typical kids riding
pell-mell oblivious and having a good time as kids do, and that adds up to
"unaware of risk" as kids often operate ... then down the alley as a short
cut or place of interest, behind the bar, maybe stop, maybe into the bar,
and opportunity and someone ceases the opportunity for whatever
reason, and the kids are in instant trouble -

If I were LE I would be all over the people who were in that bar at that
hour! For all we know those people who were there may be discussing this
in private and exploring what-ifs as we write here! (especially if they saw
the girls there prior to abduction which the rest of the world is saying happened
later, at a Lake far removed from this scene). It needs exploring if this is a viable
option -

Who was in that bar at that time and have they been interviewed?

and the bikes..........who there had a van to hide bikes and dum them!
2 guys? That would make it so much easier and faster!

 

[georger]

Oh, and FWIW, that small "strip mall" seems to have been about half empty. Even the post office had shut down was was vacant since the previous October! In short, a relatively 'desolate' spot, in a way.

Im going to say this for whatever its worth: I think you have to 'think
like kid' in situations like this, in order to clarify the operative options.
Go where the kids might go, think as they were thinking (or not thinking)
having fun on their bike ride. We as kids used to ride every alley and 'dark
place' in town - we even had a catalog of such places and would compare
notes, ie. "have you ever been down C Avenue alley?".

Whatever ceased these girls was somewhere along the route where these
kids would go, according to their thinking vs. some random act.

Wherever the kids went and were, at some specific time - THAT is where
they found trouble waiting or trouble saw and took notice of them. It was
something very specific in a specific place and time on their ride.