IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[Marilynilpa]

This post is in regards to "additional $20,500 offered in missing cousins case" per link on kwwl.com

My theory/opinion has been and is still that if LE, judges etc. would quit postpoing/rescheduling hearings regarding previous/pending charges related to drugs and other past issues, and imprison he/she/they/those that are found guilty of those crimes, that others would have more than likely already talked enough and/or come forward with valuable information, but are hesitant to do so for fear of the person(s) who are responsible for the death of these two girls retaliating and/or harming them or their other family members. After all...this person who killed these two innocent girls is still out and about (as far as we know) and obviously has no remorse or guilt for what he/she/they have done and probably would not hesitate to harm others. JMO

I wish you could see me sitting here, nodding my head in agreement!

 

[Squeeze]

I think what Heather said may be a reflection of her faith, rather than a literal description of Elizabeth's body.

That's been my thought all along, although I seem to be in the minority.

Also, I'd like to point out that she did mention just bones in the hour-long video interview with Ron Steele.

An isn't there a transcript of the audio interview?? Below the story?? Or is that an edited version??

 

[nikb]

That's been my thought all along, although I seem to be in the minority.

Also, I'd like to point out that she did mention just bones in the hour-long video interview with Ron Steele.

An isn't there a transcript of the audio interview?? Below the story?? Or is that an edited version??

Thanks Squeeze, I remember that from the video interview too, but haven't had time to go through and find the time stamp.

I personally took it literally as physical bones, but have gone back and forth on it and could see it either way, literally or as a reflection of her religious beliefs.

Either way I feel the main intent behind it was more spiritual, that Elizabeth's soul/spirit/whatever-you-want-to-call-it is no longer "here." As sleuthers I think we want to know exactly what she meant physically speaking, but I don't think that's probably where she was coming from at the time. I still thought it sounded like she meant actual physical bones, but IMO it could really go either way, actual bones, or body vs. soul/spirit.

 

[georger]

Finance what? I can't think of any case where a major corporation or media outlet was paying for any part of the investigation.

Its sarcasm. This point is, most State budgets are on hold or have been cut - even in good times!
lease:

 

[Squeeze]

Thanks Squeeze, I remember that from the video interview too, but haven't had time to go through and find the time stamp.

I personally took it literally as physical bones, but have gone back and forth on it and could see it either way, literally or as a reflection of her religious beliefs.

Either way I feel the main intent behind it was more spiritual, that Elizabeth's soul/spirit/whatever-you-want-to-call-it is no longer "here." As sleuthers I think we want to know exactly what she meant physically speaking, but I don't think that's probably where she was coming from at the time. I still thought it sounded like she meant actual,,, physical bones, but IMO it could really go either way, actual bones, or body vs. soul/spirit.

And that assumes that LE told them EXACTLY what was found. Maybe they told them the girls had been there all along, but they certainly didn't go into detail as to what was there. Probably too gruesome and nothing that they wanted to hear or really needed to know.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I try to be very clear in differentiating between speculation and facts.

This is an audio interview between Heather Collins and Ron Steele:

http://www.kwwl.com/story/20310851/...beth-collins-speaks-about-her-daughters-death

At about the 15:30 mark in the interview

It's possible she meant it metaphorically but my interpretation was that she meant it literally.

^^^Here's the link to the audio interview where Heather mentions bones.

 

[georger]

We may never get COD.

I'm reminded of Morgan Harrington. Nothing was ever released there either, except her parents spoke of foreign DNA and her "lovely bones".

Bones reveal COD in ancient mummies - why not here?

 

[georger]

Originally Posted by Just Pat 22
I watched a documentary about the 3 million old Mountain man they found he was murdered on the mountain and they actually retrieved DNA form his bones in the snow and he was there for a very long time . It was on recently P B S maybe so folks shouldn't second guess what they can and cannot find .

wow... and re-wow !!!

and, TY.

Even though your post is talking abt the DNA of the victim, it renews my hope that in our little girls' case the perp's DNA has been found.

I continue to "sit on the edge of my chair" awaiting news of final autopsy results...

Poster has her dates off, by a factor of 100. 3 mill years ago our species Sapiens didnt even exist, nor 300,000 years ago ( Habilis).
She may be talking about this:

Russians restore face to 30,000 year old Kostenki cave man | THE ...
www.thetruthbehindthescenes.org/.../russians-restore-face-to-30000-year-old-kostenki-cave-man/ - Cached
Jun 30, 2010 ... 1, 2010 BBC News article, DNA analyzed from early European, of the 30,000
year old man in Russia, depicts an ancient Sapien man in ...


In any event, I suggested turning the kids bones over to a physical anthropologist at UI or ISU, but LE evidently not interested ...

 

[georger]

"Normally, it was his job to keep the famous Neolithic mummy frozen under the precise conditions that had preserved it for 5,300 years, following an attack that had left the Iceman dead, high on a nearby mountain."

The "mummy's mitochondrial DNA" was analyzed.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/11/iceman-autopsy/hall-text

You might want to explain mtdna here and the FBI's 13 locus match
system ?

 

[georger]

BBM - With all due respect and not being snarky, how do we know they haven't?

With all due respect and not being snarky, how do we know they have ?

That would be a first! There is a box of other unsolved murders waiting ...
which one would think always keyed on forensic analysis (of the simplest kind
like hair-race analysis!). I mean if they can't prove "Willy" was even in the room
making love one hour before the murder, and Willy denies being there, why not
look for Willy's hairs on the sheets ???

I just dont want these girl's case denied because of politics ...

 

[nikb]

And that assumes that LE told them EXACTLY what was found. Maybe they told them the girls had been there all along, but they certainly didn't go into detail as to what was there. Probably too gruesome and nothing that they wanted to hear or really needed to know.

Very true, didn't think about that. I hope you're right! I'm sure seeing the shoes and being asked to ID the girls was already as much as they ever needed to see. I do think that somewhere along the line the families and maybe "insider" press knew that the girls had been there all along, but I base that on the comment from Ron Steele before Elizabeth's celebration on the LiveStream that AFAIK was not recorded. He seemed to be "practicing" and said something about the girls "seemingly" being killed shortly after they were abducted (WOW even knowing they're gone that was hard to type!). I never heard him use that bit on the air though. I think between that and Heather's comments about "bones" I just assumed that they've been there the whole time.

I'm still haunted by Linnea Lomax's Mom being the one to find her. Her Mom seems at peace with it but what a horrifying last picture of your child to have in your mind. I hope that LE spares the families from as much detail as they can, and I think they usually do. (quick note re: Linnea's case, nothing against LE, I think it was an independent non-LE search, just saying what an image... so sad)

 

[GrainneDhu]

Its sarcasm.
lease:

I'd like to point out, though, that both Drew and Heather, in different interviews, said that they continue to get interviews from many different LE agencies, including their local police, the Black Hawk County sheriff's department, the Iowa DCI and the FBI.

They both said that there are many investigators who have been working hard on the case.

Now, maybe they are having the wool pulled over their eyes.

Or, just maybe, they are in the best position to know if their child's case is being worked on or not.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Bones reveal COD in ancient mummies - why not here?

You have misunderstood.

I don't mean that LE don't have a COD (I'm sure they do) I mean that they aren't going to tell us, the public.

 

[otto]

Bones reveal COD in ancient mummies - why not here?

The 5000 year old mummy was not just bones. The mummified body's stomach contents could still be analyzed because the body was frozen from the time of death until it was found.

Bones can reveal cause of death if there are injuries to the bones.

 

[otto]

You might want to explain mtdna here and the FBI's 13 locus match
system ?

The linked article in the National Geographic explains the facts surrounding the mummified body.

 

[StormyNights]

These poor girls are weighing so heavily on my heart, soul and mind. With Christmas fast approaching, I can't help but feel awful for Lizzy and Lyric's family. It just makes my heart hurt and want to cry every time I think of some SOB cutting their lives short :furious: I truly hope that LE has someone in their sites and are just dotting their i's and crossing their t's. I am holding onto that hope with all my might. These girls didn't deserve this and it would just be a slap in the face if this case never gets solved. Everyone involved, including us here at WS, wants and DESERVES justice for "our" girls. I am praying and keeping faith that LE knows what is up and knows what they are doing and who they are looking at lease:

 

[otto]

I think the police were at a disadvantage at the start of the investigation. Because this sort of thing doesn't happen in a place like Evansdale, I think that investigators initially gave the benefit of the doubt in assessing the situation and assumed that the girls had wandered off after parking their bikes at the SE tip of the lake. Crime scene tape was added on Saturday morning. It's possible that the bikes and area immediately surrounding the bikes were not preserved. More than 1000 people searched the areas around the lake and, when the girls were not found, investigators looked in the lake. Police stopped vehicles in the area, which I think was a really good thing. It's quite likely that the person that did this was in the area to see what police were doing. I'm sure that they already have the name of the guilty party, but I doubt they know who it is.

I doubt that police have any idea what happened. I think that the investigation was complicated, slowed down, because police decided to explore the drug angle. I suppose that's all they had to work with, but I think it's rather farfetched to believe that an angry druggie would stalk a 10 year old child (that lived with her grandmother) to another city, where she was visiting her cousins, and then abduct both the 10 year old and her 8 year old cousin. That, to me, seems like complete fantasy. Why wouldn't an angry druggie abduct the 16 year old child that lived with the father if the angry druggie wanted to lash out at the father?

Now that the bodies have been found, police can probably narrow down their focus. Assuming it is true that the children were murdered shortly after they were abducted, then I think that the focus should turn to a sexual predator. I think that everyone in the areas between Evansdale and 7 Bridges Park should review what they were doing on the weekend of July 13, and anyone that was out of town should have a good look at any family members that remained at home. Someone had business in Evansdale that morning and that person was not accountable to anyone for a few hours in the afternoon.

 

[rachaellouise]

I think the police were at a disadvantage at the start of the investigation. Because this sort of thing doesn't happen in a place like Evansdale, I think that investigators initially gave the benefit of the doubt in assessing the situation and assumed that the girls had wandered off after parking their bikes at the SE tip of the lake. Crime scene tape was added on Saturday morning. It's possible that the bikes and area immediately surrounding the bikes were not preserved. More than 1000 people searched the areas around the lake and, when the girls were not found, investigators looked in the lake. Police stopped vehicles in the area, which I think was a really good thing. It's quite likely that the person that did this was in the area to see what police were doing. I'm sure that they already have the name of the guilty party, but I doubt they know who it is.

I doubt that police have any idea what happened. I think that the investigation was complicated, slowed down, because police decided to explore the drug angle. I suppose that's all they had to work with, but I think it's rather farfetched to believe that an angry druggie would stalk a 10 year old child (that lived with her grandmother) to another city, where she was visiting her cousins, and then abduct both the 10 year old and her 8 year old cousin. That, to me, seems like complete fantasy. Why wouldn't an angry druggie abduct the 16 year old child that lived with the father if the angry druggie wanted to lash out at the father?

Now that the bodies have been found, police can probably narrow down their focus. Assuming it is true that the children were murdered shortly after they were abducted, then I think that the focus should turn to a sexual predator. I think that everyone in the areas between Evansdale and 7 Bridges Park should review what they were doing on the weekend of July 13, and anyone that was out of town should have a good look at any family members that remained at home. Someone had business in Evansdale that morning and that person was not accountable to anyone for a few hours in the afternoon.

I think unfortunately people do get in the mindset of 'it could never happen here' and it does more harm than good.

 

[otto]

I think unfortunately people do get in the mindset of 'it could never happen here' and it does more harm than good.

I think that most often situations like this turn out to be something that is sorted out quickly, with the 0.1% chance that something has gone drastically wrong. With Elizabeth and Lyric, it was in the category of the 0.1% that went wrong, but everything looked quite normal ... with the bikes at the drainage gate at the lake, and the purse on the lake side of the fence. It appeared as though the girls rode their bikes there, went through the gate and set down the purse. Everything gave the impression that they had either wandered off, or they had gone into the leech infested water. I think it looked staged ... too staged, perfectly staged.

We had one of those situations this morning. My sister in law said that she was unable to contact my mom since last night. She called one brother, he called me, I spoke with another one ... everyone except the one sister in law assumed that everything was fine. Still, I jumped in the car and drove to the farm where I found my 84 year old mother shoveling the driveway in -7 F (with windchill) weather so she could pick up the newspaper at the end of the driveway. Apparently she became bored with shoveling in a straight line, so half the driveway was shoveled with a zig zag path.

"It could never happen here" is usually true, but Lyric and Elizabeth were the exception.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Iis.

I doubt that police have any idea what happened.

Now that the bodies have been found, police can probably narrow down their focus. Assuming it is true that the children were murdered shortly after they were abducted, then I think that the focus should turn to a sexual predator. .

~sbm~

BBM

Respectfully, I'm kind of tired of hearing that LE have no idea.

The 110 house blitz only 8 weeks ago means that they have some excellent ideas and are actively working this investigation in a particular direction.

The assumption that this is a sexual predator is also pretty much baseless. We don't know how the girls died or how they were treated before hand.

Life isn't a CSI show...these things aren't often wrapped up in an hour, or even a day.

LE may well have an excellent idea as to who has done what, (in fact, Thompson has pretty well confirmed that to me with his "we are speaking to people" speech) but providing sufficient evidence for an arrest and a conviction court of law is a whole other ball game.

:cow: