IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[artzypantz]

I dont know if these articles have been posted, i just learned of them so i thought i would post. (It may be old news however)

Artzy

WATERLOO, Iowa —
A judge is refusing to allow the mother of one of two slain Iowa girls out of a halfway house so she can plan her daughter's funeral.

The Waterloo-Cedar Falls Courier newspaper reports U.S. District Judge Linda Reade declined Monday to end Misty Morrissey's supervised release 45 days early or allow her to live with her mother.

Morrissey has lived at the Residential Reentry Center in Waterloo since August, and is allowed to leave for work and scheduled events.

Morrissey's attorney says she is unable to devote enough time and attention to planning Lyric's Dec. 29 memorial service while at the center.

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...ral/-/9357080/17816934/-/ube20gz/-/index.html

ALSO this article......

Heather Collins told NewsChannel 8 that police are looking at specific people in connection to her daughter's murder.

“They have talked that they are looking for some people, but they can't give us the exact, because they don't want to leak anything out. But there are people that they are looking at,” said Collins.

Blackhawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben, who's been fielding questions on the case, revealed little during a phone interview Monday afternoon.

“We haven't aimed in on any one specific person or gender or anything like that,” said Abben.

Abben said because of a lack of evidence, they can't even come up with a profile of the killer.

“For no one to not see anything, it's very frustrating,” said Abben

However, one new clue comes from the state medical examiner. Abben reports the girls' bodies had been at the park "a while," but cause of death hasn't been determined and could take weeks to determine.

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...ple/-/9357080/17814122/-/12p6p9g/-/index.html

 

[JaimeInLA]

I've asked this before, but do any of you watch Breaking Bad? It is about the meth trade, and is an excellent show. It does a great job of showing the ridiculous thought patterns and paranoia of meth addicts, who do the DUMBEST things to cover up their crimes. Knowing what I know from that show, I can totally envision a scenario like this:

The girls pedal through the parking lot behind Lofty's Lounge and accidentally see a drug deal taking place. They don't even realize what they are seeing, so they stop, and say hi to the 2 guys. The 2 guys look at each other knowingly, and think, "aww, crap, now we have to kill them." One of the guys says, "Hey, do you girls want to go for a boat ride? Just ride your bikes down the bike trail and meet me by the gate at Meyers Lake." So the girls do. The guys park on Maiden Lane. When the girls arrive, the guys wave them over "Leave your bikes! Walk along the shore! The boat is over here!" Once they are in the woods, they are stuffed in the car, driven to 7 Bridges Park, and shot execution style. Problem solved, in the eyes of the meth dealer/user.

It could have been as simple as that.

 

[otto]

I dont know if these articles have been posted, i just learned of them so i thought i would post. (It may be old news however)

Artzy

WATERLOO, Iowa —
A judge is refusing to allow the mother of one of two slain Iowa girls out of a halfway house so she can plan her daughter's funeral.

The Waterloo-Cedar Falls Courier newspaper reports U.S. District Judge Linda Reade declined Monday to end Misty Morrissey's supervised release 45 days early or allow her to live with her mother.

Morrissey has lived at the Residential Reentry Center in Waterloo since August, and is allowed to leave for work and scheduled events.

Morrissey's attorney says she is unable to devote enough time and attention to planning Lyric's Dec. 29 memorial service while at the center.

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...ral/-/9357080/17816934/-/ube20gz/-/index.html

ALSO this article......

Heather Collins told NewsChannel 8 that police are looking at specific people in connection to her daughter's murder.

“They have talked that they are looking for some people, but they can't give us the exact, because they don't want to leak anything out. But there are people that they are looking at,” said Collins.

Blackhawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben, who's been fielding questions on the case, revealed little during a phone interview Monday afternoon.

“We haven't aimed in on any one specific person or gender or anything like that,” said Abben.

Abben said because of a lack of evidence, they can't even come up with a profile of the killer.

“For no one to not see anything, it's very frustrating,” said Abben

However, one new clue comes from the state medical examiner. Abben reports the girls' bodies had been at the park "a while," but cause of death hasn't been determined and could take weeks to determine.

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...ple/-/9357080/17814122/-/12p6p9g/-/index.html

I know nothing about halfway houses, but are people that live there required to do something when they are there? I'm wondering if they are not free to do as they please in their free time.

 

[carbuff]

I think what is happening here, a bit, is that we're looking at the fact that Lyric's parents were drug addicts that spent time in jail and who did not have primary care of their daughter. We know that Lyric was being raised by her grandmother. From here, maybe it's easier to think that Lyric was generally unsupervised, or that it was more likely for her to push the boundaries. That may well have been true of Lyric, but Elizabeth was in a completely different situation. She was living with two solid parents and three siblings. She had a normal life, attending church, going on family vacations, enjoying a happy childhood. A major factor that would influence her decisions to behave, or to do the ooposite of what was expected of her, would be her mother's health (I think). There is no reason to think that she would completely misbehave when her mother is at the doctor and her grandmother has to leave soon. I think we might be vulnerable to projecting assumptions about Lyric (based on her parent's history) onto Elizabeth ... but if we don't do that, if we see Elizabeth as a responsible young girl that wanted to make her parents and grandmother happy, there's no reason to assume that she would simply take off for a 30 minute, two mile bike ride without telling anyone what she was doing.

On the other hand, there's the danger of assuming that because Elizabeth's home is more socially acceptable, that means she was the perfectly well behaved child out of the stereotype. She wasn't Saint Elizabeth the Younger, I'm sure.

 

[otto]

I've asked this before, but do any of you watch Breaking Bad? It is about the meth trade, and is an excellent show. It does a great job of showing the ridiculous thought patterns and paranoia of meth addicts, who do the DUMBEST things to cover up their crimes. Knowing what I know from that show, I can totally envision a scenario like this:

The girls pedal through the parking lot behind Lofty's Lounge and accidentally see a drug deal taking place. They don't even realize what they are seeing, so they stop, and say hi to the 2 guys. The 2 guys look at each other knowingly, and think, "aww, crap, now we have to kill them." One of the guys says, "Hey, do you girls want to go for a boat ride? Just ride your bikes down the bike trail and meet me by the gate at Meyers Lake." So the girls do. The guys park on Maiden Lane. When the girls arrive, the guys wave them over "Leave your bikes! Walk along the shore! The boat is over here!" Once they are in the woods, they are stuffed in the car, driven to 7 Bridges Park, and shot execution style. Problem solved, in the eyes of the meth dealer/user.

It could have been as simple as that.

Simple enough, except a drug dealer swapping money for a handful of drugs wouldn't necessary think that he had to murder two children that said hello - and quickly hatch a plan telling them to meet at a remote location at the lake. They would be grabbed right there and then. Also, if the girls wanted to go for a boat ride while Heather was at the doctor and Wylma was about to leave for an appointment, why wouldn't they ask permission ... since they were less than a block from home?

 

[JaimeInLA]

If the theory is that the girls were abducted at the location where the bikes were found, it has to make sense - meaning, there must be a idea about how they got there.

That makes for a rather long bike ride - 30+ minutes away from home. I doubt that Elizabeth would have done this given the circumstances.

Otto, I'm not sure why you keep saying the lake is 30+ minutes from home. Way back at the beginning of this case, we determined that the girls could have made it in 7 minutes if they used the bike trail (to the east) or 9 minutes if they used the streets (going straight south) -- and that is riding at a casual pace.

This was determined both by using Google Maps' bike option, and because Cindersoot went there, took her bike, and rode the route herself.

 

[otto]

On the other hand, there's the danger of assuming that because Elizabeth's home is more socially acceptable, that means she was the perfectly well behaved child out of the stereotype. She wasn't Saint Elizabeth the Younger, I'm sure.

Sure. But let's take Lyric out of the equation for a minute. Let's assume that Elizabeth is riding her bike with a friend half a block from home while her mother is at a doctor's appointment and her grandmother is expecting her any minute. Let's suppose that she is approached by a stranger that wants her to ride to a remote location at the lake (round trip more than 2 miles). Why would we assume that Elizabeth would do this?

 

[carbuff]

Can somebody please refresh my memory? Is there any information connecting the girls to Maiden Lane, or is that something we came up with on our own based on the photos of the area and the lay of the land?

 

[artzypantz]

I know nothing about halfway houses, but are people that live there required to do something when they are there? I'm wondering if they are not free to do as they please in their free time.

You are correct Otto......

Work, scheduled appointments for doctors, drug/alcohol classes, looking for work, etc are the events of the day.
You have to earn any "free time", called a furlow, home pass, or outing, which is usually a weekend at "home".
When you are gone from the facility, they check up on you, phone calls to the persons you say you are going to be with, etc.
I worked as safety manager at a plant who hired numerous halfway house residents. I had to speak with halfway house employees twice a day upon their arrival and departure to work.

Artzy

 

[otto]

Otto, I'm not sure why you keep saying the lake is 30+ minutes from home. Way back at the beginning of this case, we determined that the girls could have made it in 7 minutes if they used the bike trail (to the east) or 9 minutes if they used the streets (going straight south) -- and that is riding at a casual pace.

This was determined both by using Google Maps' bike option, and because Cindersoot went there, took her bike, and rode the route herself.

I'm talking about the round trip, not one way. It may be 10 minutes to the North side of the lake, but a round trip, plus visiting with people on Lake Avenue, is no longer 10 minutes. We looked at the one-way traveling time in relation to whether the cyclist could have seen the bikes when he said he did ... that was about 10 minutes. If we're talking about Lyric and Elizabeth deciding to take off to the lake, then we have to include round trip time, which I think is at least 25 minutes - 10 minutes there, 10 minutes back, and time to stop at the gate, set down the purse ... do whatever. If the girls took off to the lake, parked their bikes and went to the water, that was not a 10 minute trip.

Do you have a reference for 8 year old children riding 1.2 miles (as the crow flies) in 7 minutes? The distance per roads would have been longer.

Cindersoot's ride took 10 minutes along the trail from Arbutus to the shopping center.

 

[tlcya]

Can somebody please refresh my memory? Is there any information connecting the girls to Maiden Lane, or is that something we came up with on our own based on the photos of the area and the lay of the land?

Maiden Lane was selected by posters here as a likely, off the beaten path area where perp may have parked. I do not think it has ever been mentioned in MSM or by LE. Strictly WS originated speculation if I recall.

 

[Tennlyn]

Heather has a heart condition and had four children. Would she really let a 4 year old stay up until 8 or 9? I would be surprised if the young children were up that late ... it would result in very cranky, fussy children ... and who needs that with a heart condition. 4 year olds should be in bed at 7 PM if they're going to be pleasant throughout the day.

One of our posters biked from Maiden Lane to the shopping center in 10 minutes. Elizabeth on a BMX bike would have needed more time. Let's say 12 minutes one way. The child seen by the lawn watering man stopped to visit with people on the street every night. This isn't a 10 minute bike ride, this is more like a 25 minute round trip bike ride plus the time needed to visit. I find it hard to believe that Elizabeth would take off every evening for 30-40 minutes and her parents knew nothing about what she was doing ... the Collin's family strikes me as having more control over their children.

Apparently neither my parents, my brothers, nor I have control over our children as none of ours ever had a bedtime before 8 pm.

 

[otto]

Can somebody please refresh my memory? Is there any information connecting the girls to Maiden Lane, or is that something we came up with on our own based on the photos of the area and the lay of the land?

Police thoroughly searched the area ... it was within 400 feet of where the bikes were found.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e1decc44-3f79-55a1-85f6-f26635373bb5.html

 

[otto]

You are correct Otto......

Work, scheduled appointments for doctors, drug/alcohol classes, looking for work, etc are the events of the day.

You have to earn any "free time", called a furlow, home pass, or outing, which is usually a weekend at "home".

When you are gone from the facility, they check up on you, phone calls to the persons you say you are going to be with, etc.

I worked as safety manager at a plant who hired numerous halfway house residents. I had to speak with halfway house employees twice a day upon their arrival and departure to work.

Artzy

Thank you! It sounds like all of their time is scheduled ... perhaps a strategy to ensure that there's no spare time to get into trouble.

 

[carbuff]

Sure. But let's take Lyric out of the equation for a minute. Let's assume that Elizabeth is riding her bike with a friend half a block from home while her mother is at a doctor's appointment and her grandmother is expecting her any minute. Let's suppose that she is approached by a stranger that wants her to ride to a remote location at the lake (round trip more than 2 miles). Why would we assume that Elizabeth would do this?

I haven't assumed Elizabeth would do this the way you're putting it. If a stranger approached them near the house, then that's where they were taken, as far as I can see. That means the bikes were staged later.

I can think of a number of reasons why they might have headed to the lake on their own, either for adventure, to meet a friend, because they didn't take the deadline seriously, because they were racing and thought they could get there and back in time, because they had arranged to meet somebody, etc.

Being told to go there by a stranger doesn't even seem to enter into it, at least in my opinion.

 

[carbuff]

Police thoroughly searched the area.

Yes, but if they found anything, it was never in the press?

 

[JaimeInLA]

I've asked this before, but do any of you watch Breaking Bad? It is about the meth trade, and is an excellent show. It does a great job of showing the ridiculous thought patterns and paranoia of meth addicts, who do the DUMBEST things to cover up their crimes. Knowing what I know from that show, I can totally envision a scenario like this:

The girls pedal through the parking lot behind Lofty's Lounge and accidentally see a drug deal taking place. They don't even realize what they are seeing, so they stop, and say hi to the 2 guys. The 2 guys look at each other knowingly, and think, "aww, crap, now we have to kill them." One of the guys says, "Hey, do you girls want to go for a boat ride? Just ride your bikes down the bike trail and meet me by the gate at Meyers Lake." So the girls do. The guys park on Maiden Lane. When the girls arrive, the guys wave them over "Leave your bikes! Walk along the shore! The boat is over here!" Once they are in the woods, they are stuffed in the car, driven to 7 Bridges Park, and shot execution style. Problem solved, in the eyes of the meth dealer/user.

It could have been as simple as that.

Quoting myself - LOL! OR....Maybe the dealer takes the girls right there in the parking lot of Lofty's -- stuffs them in his car at gunpoint. Then says to the meth user/buyer -- "Get rid of these bikes." The meth user puts the bikes in his car/truck, and drops them off on Maiden Lane, while the dealer drives the girls to 7 Bridges and disposes of them.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Simple enough, except a drug dealer swapping money for a handful of drugs wouldn't necessary think that he had to murder two children that said hello - and quickly hatch a plan telling them to meet at a remote location at the lake. They would be grabbed right there and then. Also, if the girls wanted to go for a boat ride while Heather was at the doctor and Wylma was about to leave for an appointment, why wouldn't they ask permission ... since they were less than a block from home?

Maybe it wasn't a handful. Maybe it was a pound or more. A pound of meth has a street value of $20,000 (at least, depending on the quality). And a pound will get you some SERIOUS prison time. If a drug manufacturer was putting a Rubbermaid container full of Crystal into a dealer's trunk -- and exchanging bags full of cash -- that would certainly be something to make sure 2 little girls never mentioned to anyone.

 

[otto]

Apparently neither my parents, my brothers, nor I have control over our children as none of ours ever had a bedtime before 8 pm.

I suppose it depends on what time children wake up in the morning.

 

[tlcya]

Yes, but if they found anything, it was never in the press?

I don't believe anything was every mentioned as found or seeming out of sorts on Maiden Lane.

My only recollection about it was that many of us, due to its proximity to bikes, its sort of out of the way, un-maintained, road to nowhereness, found it a likely spot for someone to park a vehicle unnoticed by passersby and traffic.