IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[SapphireSteel]

From Morgan Harrington's (still unsolved) murder -

By Meagan Farley
WSLS at 7 p.m. Anchor
[email protected]

ROANOKE CO. - Dan and Gil Harrington tell me that the "forensic evidence" that State Police have is DNA. A State Police trooper who met with the couple at their Roanoke County home Thursday afternoon would not confirm what the forensic evidence link is.

http://www2.wsls.com/news/2010/jul/01/link_made_between_morgan_harrington_case_and_2005_-ar-360778/

Morgan was almost fully skeletonised. Her parents spoke of her "lovely bones".

From her website -

Morgan’s skeletonized body was found at Anchorage Farm, Albemarle County on 1/26/10

http://findmorgan.com/

She went in mid October and was found in late January...around the same time frame as our girls.

 

[Marilynilpa]

The mathematical calculations are interesting, but someone said the girls were recognisable when they were found.

The calculations are also for bodies uncovered, we still have no clue if they were clothed, buried, covered, or wrapped, or even hidden in a shady spot. They could have been alive until two weeks ago, or stored in a freezer.


:dunno:

I'd appreciate seeing a link to support the comment that the girls were recognizable when they were found. The only credible source for that info would be LE, or the ME's office, and I know no such comment was made by them.

TIA

 

[otto]

First day of Winter: December 21 ...

Merry Christmas, happy holidays and warm wishes to you and family this holiday season

The Pogues and Kirsty MacColl - Fairytale of New York - YouTube

 

[SapphireSteel]

I'd appreciate seeing a link to support the comment that the girls were recognizable when they were found. The only credible source for that info would be LE, or the ME's office, and I know no such comment was made by them.

TIA

I knew I should have found the link.

I was hoping someone would remember us talking about that on this forum and jump in.

It's rumour unless I find it or someone else can.

:banghead:

 

[otto]

Any old cell phone will allow you to call 911 providing the battery still works.

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region...ster/old-cell-phones-problem-for-911-dispatch

I remember learning that Elizabeth could not call for help on her phone, and later learning that the phone could still be used for 911 calls. It was primarily used for games, but I suspect that her parents gave it to her for emergency purposes (not for phoning her cousin). I also recall that Lyric had a cell phone, but she left it at Heather's house??? Anyone else remember that? When I heard that, I wondered if there was an internet connection of luring where she was told to leave her phone at home, but none has turned up ... no internet luring. I guess she simply decided to not take her phone with her that day.

The question came up about what type of purse Elizabeth carried. As far as I remember, it was a purple over the shoulder loose bag ... pouch.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I knew I should have found the link.

I was hoping someone would remember us talking about that on this forum and jump in.

It's rumour unless I find it or someone else can.

:banghead:

It may have been discussed on this forum, but I don't think a link was ever provided.

 

[otto]

I knew I should have found the link.

I was hoping someone would remember us talking about that on this forum and jump in.

It's rumour unless I find it or someone else can.

:banghead:

There is no link stating that the girls were recognizable when they were found. Police referred to them as bodies in the media, the family referred to them as bones. It has been stated that the children were murdered shortly after they were abducted. One way that it is known for sure that murder occurred shortly after abduction is because the bodies were skeletonized when they are found.

The girls were not recognizable when they were found, but they were identifiable. Initial identification was done using footwear ... some clothing.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It may have been discussed on this forum, but I don't think a link was ever provided.

I'm poking around looking for one.

I suspect it was originally decided because Deputy Abben said they were "confident" it was the girls even before the autopsy was even done, implying visual identification.

Mind you, that could have been based on clothing and size.

:dunno:

 

[otto]

It may have been discussed on this forum, but I don't think a link was ever provided.

The bodies were not recognizable. That has never been stated.

What has been stated is that the remains were bones, that the family does not want to know the gorry details. that the family understands that this may be a sexual predator, and that they knew it was their children after being provided with the children's footwear from the scene of two unidentifiable bodies.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The bodies were not recognizable. That has never been stated.

What has been stated is that the remains were bones, that the family does not want to know the gorry details. that the family understands that this may be a sexual predator, and that they knew it was their children after being provided with the children's footwear from the scene of two unidentifiable bodies.

I haven't yet seen a link to that statement, either.

Do you have one?

TIA.

 

[otto]

I'm poking around looking for one.

I suspect it was originally decided because Deputy Abben said they were "confident" it was the girls even before the autopsy was even done, implying visual identification.

Mind you, that could have been based on clothing and size.

:dunno:

Of course investigators were confident that the bodies of the children had been found after the parents confirmed that the footwear with the two bodies belonged to their children. No autopsy had to be done to convince Heather that her daughter had been murdered.

Police have clearly stated that clothing was used in the identification of the bodies ... but that doesn't mean that the bodies were not decomposed to bones.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Of course investigators were confident that the bodies of the children had been found after the parents confirmed that the footwear with the two bodies belonged to their children. No autopsy had to be done to convince Heather that her daughter had been murdered.

Police have clearly stated that clothing was used in the identification of the bodies ... but that doesn't mean that the bodies were not decomposed to bones.

Sorry, did you have the link to the "bones" statement?

Someone else has quoted Heather as saying something about bones and I asked then but no one posted it.

Thanks

 

[otto]

I haven't yet seen a link to that statement, either.

Do you have one?

TIA.

If you look back over the recent posts during the 3-4 days when you were not posting, you will find comments linking statements to Heather's reference to bones, and the fact that the bodies were left there soon after they were abducted.

The links have been posted, sorry you missed them.

 

[otto]

I'm poking around looking for one.

I suspect it was originally decided because Deputy Abben said they were "confident" it was the girls even before the autopsy was even done, implying visual identification.

Mind you, that could have been based on clothing and size.

:dunno:

Heather knew that her child had been murdered, a complete shock to the community, because she was shown the footwear of Lyric and Elizabeth on the day that they were last seen.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The links were posted in the last week. I suppose everyone remembers reading them and isn't inclined to take the time to search them again for late-comers. What have you done to find them yourself?

LOL@ latecomers.

Um...it's not me saying anything about bones...!

How can I find something I've never seen? That's why I'm asking for a link...

:waitasec:

 

[georger]

~ Would it be possible that the clothing might still hold a trace? ~

Will anyone ever tell us what really happened?? Got my doubts. :banghead:[/quote]

Yes, its possible. Probably not nuclear dna but mtdna - maybe a partial.

Particle evidence off the clothing might also be useful. Particle evidence
has been pulled off clothing objects decades after a crime and proved
useful. The question I have, frankly, is justhow far LE will go in this case.
Based on their performance to date I would gestimate 'not very far'! Lots
of talk and fanfare for a while - little production.

I hope Im proved wrong.

The State of Iowa is not big on forensics for some reason.

 

[georger]

The mathematical calculations are interesting, but someone said the girls were recognisable when they were found.



:dunno:

If skeletons then it was clothing and shoes - plus general size. Isnt it interesting the perp
left clothing and shoes? Maybe our perp isnt too bright ? Hope he's the only one in town
with a white haired rare breed of dog, that sheds ! But will anyone even look? Somehow I
doubt it.

Also - was there hair?

 

[georger]

There is no link stating that the girls were recognizable when they were found. Police referred to them as bodies in the media, the family referred to them as bones. It has been stated that the children were murdered shortly after they were abducted. One way that it is known for sure that murder occurred shortly after abduction is because the bodies were skeletonized when they are found.

The girls were not recognizable when they were found, but they were identifiable. Initial identification was done using footwear ... some clothing.

Two new skeletons approximate size close to each other a stone's throw from
Evansdale in the bush - who else would it be?

There are three good physical anthropologists in this State (UI and ISU).

Will LE even care!? Whose budget does this come out of? There are lots of unsolved murders
in this State nobody was willing to do forensics on ...

 

[SapphireSteel]

If skeletons then it was clothing and shoes - plus general size. Isnt it interesting the perp
left clothing and shoes? Maybe our perp isnt too bright ? Hope he's the only one in town
with a white haired rare breed of dog, that sheds ! But will anyone even look? Somehow I
doubt it.

Also - was there hair?

All we know 100% for sure is that they were found with their shoes.

Everything else is pretty much guesswork at the moment I believe.

Re the dog hair - it happens. I was reading about a killer who dumped his victims in exactly the same way as this and they got him with the carpet fibres from his car as they found some on their bodies.

Submerging in water will destroy pretty much everything, especially salt and running water, but we don't know what has been done to our girls.

Morgan Harrington was left outdoors for 4 months and skeletonised, but they still lifted the offender's DNA from her body...but she was likely sexually assaulted.

 

[georger]

[
Submerging in water will destroy pretty much everything, especially salt and running water, but we don't know what has been done to our girls.

Then the lack of rain (extreme drought) is in LE's favour... the clothing
may not have been washed out ...

No need to worry. I really dont think forensics will play any role in this
case, in any event. They do more for mamoth bones forensically in Iowa,
than they do for human murder victims. NatGeo or History or Discovery
Inc will even finance it! Maybe HLN will finance it in this case, do you think?