IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[tlcya]

OT but if DD's tablet does not stop autocorrecting the word is to us I will lose it. Argg

 

[nursebeeme]

and while we are doing the reminders, I am also bumping up the rules about the family speculation.

Further violations of this rule will result in a timeout.

Please remember the following when discussing the case:
Websleuths is a moderated forum. We strive to discuss cases in a friendly environment.

Things to know before you post:
Leave the snark -- and the rumors --at the door.
Treat other posters with respect.
Do not sleuth individuals who have not been mentioned in MSM either as persons of interest or as suspects by LE.
Choose the links you post wisely; don't link to sites which feature bizarre speculation, etc.
If you have questions or concerns about a post, alert on that post and contact a mod. Do not quote and/or reply to the post. If you do, and the post is subsequently deleted, your post is subject to deletion, as well.
If you have other questions in general, scroll to the bottom of the page and find "View forum leaders." There you will find a list of moderators available if you need to PM one.
Remember: you can disagree with a post and address it, but you do NOT attack the poster.

No one has been named by LE or MSM as a POI or suspect in this case.
The parents, whatever you may personally think about them, have not been named.
That means that they, and their families, their neighbors, and their friends and "associates," are not to be sleuthed or badmouthed.

 

[Bootsctr]

My apologies....it was the conservation group not restoration....although, restoration could be done under them as well.

They are leaving it open for the use of the trail users for water and bathrooms. They had a 100th B'day party on July 7th of this year for the depot.

http://www.gilbertvilledepot.org/PressReleaseOnLease.pdf

http://www.gilbertvilledepot.org/news.html

I wonder how the 100th B'day party worked out for them? I mean if they are having water problems I would be scared of mold.

 

[hollyblue]

I'm sorry. I clipped on the link for your map. It said my daughter is missing, but there were posts saying she had been located. I must be confused.

Started by my confusion. I had another tab open for another case and posted the wrong link. Was wanting the map. Sorry about that. I fixed my original post. Dang, how much coffee do I need to get with it today????:what:

 

[otto]

I waffle on whether le are withholding any other sightings or video. I tend to think they are not but conced that le does sometimes hold back things from the public

Investigators typically release information when it may assist them in obtaining information from the public. Information that does not need to be released, such as manner of death, will most likely not be released by investigators until there is a trial, as releasing it will not further the investigation - unless a murder weapon was found. If a murder weapon was found, that would be released as it would help identify the owner.

When children are abducted, the last known sighting of them is extremely important, and it is extremely important that the information is released to the public in order to generate leads. For example, if the children were last seen at the entrance to 7 Bridge County Park, it would be very important to release that information in order to generate leads. If they were last seen heading West on Brovan, again, very important. If they were last seen heading East on Lafayette, that information would be made public.

 

[otto]

I just did a little more searching on info about Lyric and Elizabeth, and I found this phrase connected to their names on Google:

"Several girls did come forth and witness seeing both girls that afternoon."

This comment is supposedly on evansdalesearch.com, but when I go to that site I can't find it anywhere.:banghead:

Does anyone remember ever seeing this comment before?

Thanks.

ETA: Here it is, from Tuesday, July 17th:

4:00 P.M. News Conference - The police have zero leads and are at a standstill. They will continue to drain Meyers Lake but no idea how long it will take. Several girls did come forth and witness seeing both girls that afternoon. The dogs used scent pad samples taken from the girls' shoes and picked up a scent trail, but Breault couldn't say what, if anything, it led investigators to. Tips from all over are coming in about the girls and those leads are being followed. Officers are still on footer and interviewing people within the community.

BBM

Maybe these witnesses are the ones who provided info about seeing the girls at 12:23 and at 12:30-1:00.

I get this "Error 404 - Not Found"

 

[Marilynilpa]

I get this "Error 404 - Not Found"

Hmmm, that's odd. I went to evansdalesearch.com, and was able to scroll down to July 17th to view the entry.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Investigators typically release information when it may assist them in obtaining information from the public. Information that does not need to be released, such as manner of death, will most likely not be released by investigators until there is a trial, as releasing it will not further the investigation - unless a murder weapon was found. If a murder weapon was found, that would be released as it would help identify the owner.

When children are abducted, the last known sighting of them is extremely important, and it is extremely important that the information is released to the public in order to generate leads. For example, if the children were last seen at the entrance to 7 Bridge County Park, it would be very important to release that information in order to generate leads. If they were last seen heading West on Brovan, again, very important. If they were last seen heading East on Lafayette, that information would be made public.

Police also try to protect their witnesses though. If, hypothetically, there were 2 teenagers out on a smoke break who gave the girls directions to the lake, those witnesses might know WHY the girls wanted to go to the lake. This makes them CRITICAL to solving this case. LE would NOT want media to get their hands on those 2 witnesses. They also would not want the killer to know they exist -- for the safety of the witnesses. Those witness statements need to be preserved at all costs to get a conviction.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Because perhaps the killer is the only person who knows they were riding East on Lafeyette. Perhaps the killer was seen on video following them, or even talking to them. The police would not want the killer to know they have this footage. They want the killer to feel like he/she has gotten away with this while they await the ME results and gather all the evidence they need for an arrest.

But wouldn't that result in LE loosing a lot of potential information from witnesses along Lafayette if the girls had biked that way, but LE didn't release that info?

And IF the girls were riding east on Lafayette, how could the killer possibly know he was the only person who saw them?

Finally, if LE saw someone on video following or talking to the girls, I believe they would have published that video and asked the public for information regarding that person. JMO. Or do what they did when they posted the video of the guy at Casey's in the white van. They published his picture and asked him to come forward, which he did.

 

[Snowbunny]

Here's what http://evansdalesearch.com/ said for those who cannot pull it up:

Tuesday - July 17th
Day 5

9:00 A.M. - No further information has been released to the public. The Meyers Lake is still draining inch-by-inch. In the past this process has taken 2-3 days.

11:00 A.M. - Authorities tape off a large perimeter around Meyers Lake to aid in their search efforts.

4:00 P.M. News Conference - The police have zero leads and are at a standstill. They will continue to drain Meyers Lake but no idea how long it will take. Several girls did come forth and witness seeing both girls that afternoon. The dogs used scent pad samples taken from the girls' shoes and picked up a scent trail, but Breault couldn't say what, if anything, it led investigators to. Tips from all over are coming in about the girls and those leads are being followed. Officers are still on footer and interviewing people within the community.

 

[hollyblue]

I remain aware of the edited video LE subpoenaed from the TV station, of Misty and Wylma.

They tried, but it was gone. LE never got a copy of it.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Because perhaps the killer is the only person who knows they were riding East on Lafeyette. Perhaps the killer was seen on video following them, or even talking to them. The police would not want the killer to know they have this footage. They want the killer to feel like he/she has gotten away with this while they await the ME results and gather all the evidence they need for an arrest.

My problem with that scenario is for the first 5 months of them being missing, there was hope that they were alive. Identifying someone following them in the video could have meant bringing the girls home alive. Jmo

 

[Marilynilpa]

They tried, but it was gone. LE never got a copy of it.

I believe that LE wanted unedited video and, as the interview was conducted and aired live, not taped, no unedited video ever existed.

 

[otto]

Correct, but you are saying they were nowhere near the Fareway. So how do you think they got to the lake?. LE has not released any info except for the fact they were going toward River Forest, even reminding us of it. Whether they have or have not been seen on any of the surveillance video along the stores is all speculation because LE hasn't stated anything about it.

If they didn't go down River Forest, didn't take the trail then how did they get to the lake? Down Evans? Then they had to make an east turn again somewhere?

BTW: Here's the correct link....:blushing: Don't know how that happened...
http://goo.gl/maps/B1H7x

Maybe this is the route they took ...

 

[otto]

Police also try to protect their witnesses though. If, hypothetically, there were 2 teenagers out on a smoke break who gave the girls directions to the lake, those witnesses might know WHY the girls wanted to go to the lake. This makes them CRITICAL to solving this case. LE would NOT want media to get their hands on those 2 witnesses. They also would not want the killer to know they exist -- for the safety of the witnesses. Those witness statements need to be preserved at all costs to get a conviction.

The jogger's identity has been protected. It's pretty simple ... when police instruct a witness to remain silent and not discuss the information with the media, including social media, the witness follows those instructions. At the same time, the information (2 PM sighting of bikes at drainage gate) provided by the witness was released by police because it is important to the investigation.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Police also try to protect their witnesses though. If, hypothetically, there were 2 teenagers out on a smoke break who gave the girls directions to the lake, those witnesses might know WHY the girls wanted to go to the lake. This makes them CRITICAL to solving this case. LE would NOT want media to get their hands on those 2 witnesses. They also would not want the killer to know they exist -- for the safety of the witnesses. Those witness statements need to be preserved at all costs to get a conviction.

You make a good point, but let me counter with this. If LE questioned two Fareway employees who were out on a cigarette break, it seems to me LE would have emphasized the importance of them remaining quiet about what they saw. After all, as you said, LE would not want the media to get their hands on those two witnesses.

And yet, at least one family member of a (supposed) witness has been on FB since practically day one, talking about it. If this witness was so critical to solving the case, I doubt his/her family would be talking about it on FB. I'd be scared to death the perp would come after my loved one at Fareway, and I would do everything I could to keep him/her safe. JMO

Unless the family member just wanted to bask in the limelight, in which case I would question their integrity and the comments they made. Again, JMO.

I'll go with what little we've been given by LE and leave the FB rumors alone.

 

[nursebeeme]

Police also try to protect their witnesses though. If, hypothetically, there were 2 teenagers out on a smoke break who gave the girls directions to the lake, those witnesses might know WHY the girls wanted to go to the lake. This makes them CRITICAL to solving this case. LE would NOT want media to get their hands on those 2 witnesses. They also would not want the killer to know they exist -- for the safety of the witnesses. Those witness statements need to be preserved at all costs to get a conviction.

reminder: we are not discussing rumors that do not have a foot in main stream media. Not just pointing at your post... this is a reminder for everyone.

 

[Sere-nity]

I self edited this.

 

[Marilynilpa]

We know that there is surveillance video out there, as LE has said that there is, but they just don't know what they're looking for. They haven't mentioned other video of the girls, but I agree that they could be withholding it. I can't find the quote right now on the Courier website, but I believe they said they had "hundreds of hours" of video.

Also, regarding the Fareway sighting, I would believe people on Facebook who have said they had been questioned, as Facebook is not anonymous, unless someone creates a fake account. Which is possible, but it's pretty hard to have "friends" if you have a fake account. And I also don't feel that LE would be putting out a public plea to ask for witnesses (not sure who said that - Otto? - that they haven't done that, so the sightings at Fareway probably aren't true), because if LE felt that they had talked to everyone who was there on their smoke break, why would they put out a plea for more witnesses? And someone else mentioned that this could have happened before the last sighting by Grandma and the Cornbelt video, so in that case, it would not be necessary to use that in establishing a timeline.

BBM

Unfortunately, not everyone on FB tells the truth. That's why here on WS, anything from FB is considered to be rumor unless it is supported by MSM or statements from LE.

 

[threecrazykids]

I'm not asking anyone to believe anything regarding which route the girls took. I simply had mentioned this apparent sighting that I had heard about and disclosed it to be a rumor which I now realize we are not to discuss.

I also should ask the question then....If Mr. G comes on here and is verified are we to believe and discuss his claimed sighting of the bikes even though LE hasn't confirmed it and included it in their official timeline?

His pic was in the paper, yes...and had apparently informed the Courier of his sighting, BUT if LE isn't including OR confirming it then I don't know why his sighting would be anymore believable than the rumors of the Fareway workers. Because we know his name and it was printed it is to be considered a fact?

I'm not being snarky...I'm really not. I just don't understand why his comments are really going to be anymore believable than anyone else that day IF we continually shift focus to only what LE has CONFIRMED.

Confirmed by LE is the 12:15 sighting and the 3:58 finding of the bikes. Everything else in between LE has stated POSSIBLE. Even the video LE states "may be" the last possible sighting. That confuses me as well.

If you choose to ignore the other rumored sightings it is ok with me. I'm just keeping it in my mind as a possible route since NONE of us can seriously believe we KNOW the route they took. It's all assumption at this point.

Keep in mind everyone, this is my first case so bare with me as I learn the ropes.:blushing: