IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

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  • #661
I think he needed a ride to the lake from what I remember. No DL or vehicle to get there but an atv? Also, the girl's missing just happened with Lryic & her other cousin, 4 or so days before. Got me what he was doing in the afternoon time. He's not old and a siesta is reserved for older people. ha ha! (I never nap in the afternoon, btw)

He may be having siestas because he's out of work. He must have an alibi because he is not considered a suspect.

It does sound like Lyric was inclined to, as her grandmother put it, be a bit of a "bull in a china shop". It makes me think: impetuous. She may have viewed curfews as voluntary and her parents may have been struggling with her on that front. That would explain Lyric being late the week before she was abducted and going to Meyers Lake on July 13. If they knew that Wylma would leave even if they weren't back home on time, maybe they thought it was a good idea to ride to the lake just before Wylma wanted to leave ... at 12:15 rather than when they were first cycling at 11:30.

I still don't really believe that they cooked up the idea between themselves and a murderer just happened to be at the exact location at the exact time that this happened. I think that they must have been lured by someone that looked friendly enough.
 
  • #662
Imo, if I said destination, I might not know where or forgot where they were to be at.

I missed the first part of this discussion ... which destination and who used the word?
 
  • #663
I have thought that all along. If the girls were where they were suppose to be they would have been at the park. And they weren't.

And please don't take this the wrong way. I am NOT saying this to be mean or anything.:please:

The common denominator between 2 girls in this family missing the week before at the Waterloo park and 2 girls missing during this abduction is Lyric.

There is just something hookey about it. It doesn't sit right with me. I just don't believe that that is a coincidence. SOMETHING is connected...somewhere. I don't know where, why, how, or who...but I just can't get past the feeling that these two instances are somehow connected.

Me too.
 
  • #664
Imo, if I said destination, I might not know where or forgot where they were to be at.

That was my thought about it, too. I doubt that Dan had slept any at the time. Stress alone can cause me to forget what I'm saying much less a single word. Add no sleep to the equation and I probably wouldn't be able to construct a simple sentence. Of course, I can't even remember to add a link right after I say I am so what do I know? :waitasec:
 
  • #665
I missed the first part of this discussion ... which destination and who used the word?

otto, here's how the "destination" conversation began:

Does anyone have a link to Dan telling the story of when Lyric went missing in Waterloo on 7/9?

He used a specific word indicating that she was sent to that park for a reason. But I don't remember the exact word/phrasing.

He said something like, "she went to a destination to meet someone" and then when she didn't return, they all freaked out, called the police, and reported an abduction.

However, right as they were calling police, she came strolling up the walk.

I'd LOVE to read that transcript again if anyone can find it. (I'm looking too.)

He tells Jane Velez-Mitchell, "I was in Waterloo at my mom's house with my son. And I was taking a nap and my wife called and woke me up and told me Lyric was missing. This had just happened probably four days before that where she was supposed to go to, you know, a certain destination and then come back and after a while she hadn't come back. They went to that destination and she wasn't there. So things got stirred up. My wife called me then and told me the same thing. That she's missing. I told her to call the cops. And they went around to drive around some more and all of a sudden my daughter's calling me from my wife's phone and saying, Daddy. So four days after that I'm getting another call from my wife saying the same thing, you know. So I'm like what?"

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/07/17/iowa-girl-went-missing-days-earlier
 
  • #666
I missed the first part of this discussion ... which destination and who used the word?

It was Dan who said "destination" instead of "park."

...This had just happened probably four days before, that where she was supposed to go to, you know, a certain destination and then come back, and after a while she hadn`t come back. And they went to that destination and she wasn`t there. And so things got stirred up. My wife called me then and told me the same thing, that she`s missing. And I told her to call the cops.

And they went around to drive around some more, and all of a sudden my daughter`s calling me from my wife`s phone and saying, "Daddy." You know?

So four days after that I`m getting another call from my wife and saying the same thing, you know. So I`m like what? And so she was out looking for her and I guess, you know, the police got involved and...


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html

EDIT: Oops. You beat me to it, Marilynilpa.
 
  • #667
Otto, you may have provided an important clue for LE to check out, i.e. local hospital records or walk-in clinics on whom was treated for poison ivy rash after July 13th, i.e. for now, I would ask how many adult males were treated for poison ivy. Just imo.

To my knowledge, neither adult males nor adolescent males seek treatment for poison ivy....:)

They scratch 'til things are silly messy, possibly put on creams or lotions, then scratch again, possibly complain...

But have never known or heard of any man seeking treatment for posion ivy...

BUT, you never know....

So good question...
 
  • #668
To my knowledge, neither adult males nor adolescent males seek treatment for poison ivy....:)

They scratch 'til things are silly messy, possibly put on creams or lotions, then scratch again, possibly complain...

But have never known or heard of any man seeking treatment for posion ivy...

BUT, you never know....

So good question...

I know one who did, but he was nowhere near there!
 
  • #669
Poison Ivy was one of my biggest hold outs. darn...I was hoping someone would mention their episode with it in July somewhere online. garrrr.

I had it when I was a kid in OH years ago. I got it at a park off a dam in our town. It was like a jungle there and my favorite place to be. From leg to eventually everywhere on me. Had to go to the doctors when it was near my eyes. I was maybe 6 or 7. Then another time, I got poison oak. yukky stuff.

If they had pants on, I doubt they got poison ivy. Maybe on their arms as it was warmer then. Shorts, hopefully all over their legs. Things like this might make a spouse or family member, friend too remember someone who had contact with the evil ivy's & poison oak like I did. I am a grandma btw.
 
  • #670
BBM Apparently they were NOT playing at the park because Misty said she checked there? Confused?


Misty:
A week before this, Lyric and her other cousin, Tammy`s daughter, K*****, who were in Green Briar, which is another division of Waterloo, and they went walking to the park. They were gone for an extended amount of time. We went looking for them at the park, and they weren`t there. So we called the police. They -- right when I called the police they came walking up to the house.

I don't find it confusing. Lyric and K* had permission to walk to the park. It's summer and they are 10 and 11 years old. The two girls stayed longer than expected. Misty and Tammy went to look for them at the park but they didn't see them - "they weren't there". Then, the girls arrive. It sounds to me like they were walking back to their destination (I think I remember it being Tammy's house?) and Misty and Tammy didn't see them. Lyric and her cousin may have come home on a different street than Misty and Tammy used to get to and from the park. For example, "I'm sick of always walking the same old way. Let's take the long way home this time" or "Let's walk down this street on the way back and see if Mary Jane is back from her piano lesson, now". The way they walked back may have taken them longer than they realized.
 
  • #671
Poison Ivy was one of my biggest hold outs. darn...I was hoping someone would mention their episode with it in July somewhere online. garrrr.

I had it when I was a kid in OH years ago. I got it at a park off a dam in our town. It was like a jungle there and my favorite place to be. From leg to eventually everywhere on me. Had to go to the doctors when it was near my eyes. I was maybe 6 or 7. Then another time, I got poison oak. yukky stuff.

If they had pants on, I doubt they got poison ivy. Maybe on their arms as it was warmer then. Shorts, hopefully all over their legs. Things like this might make a spouse or family member, friend too remember someone who had contact with the evil ivy's & poison oak like I did. I am a grandma btw.

Did Ollipop say he saw poison ivy in the wooded area around Maiden Lane? I was thinking he said he didn't see it. I hate poison ivy. I get it off the dogs. I get it off my husband's clothes. I think I can get it from driving past an area where it grows (OK. Maybe the last one is a slight exaggeration).
 
  • #672
Misty:


I don't find it confusing. Lyric and K* had permission to walk to the park. It's summer and they are 10 and 11 years old. The two girls stayed longer than expected. Misty and Tammy went to look for them at the park but they didn't see them - "they weren't there". Then, the girls arrive. It sounds to me like they were walking back to their destination (I think I remember it being Tammy's house?) and Misty and Tammy didn't see them. Lyric and her cousin may have come home on a different street than Misty and Tammy used to get to and from the park. For example, "I'm sick of always walking the same old way. Let's take the long way home this time" or "Let's walk down this street on the way back and see if Mary Jane is back from her piano lesson, now". The way they walked back may have taken them longer than they realized.

It could be that way too. I just think with Lyric & her cousin missing 4 days before their disappearance might hold some importance as to why they were late and who the heck did they go to meet possibly at the park? I could imagine if the family doesn't know those answers it would be in their minds eventually after their loss & trauma subsides some, one day. jmo
 
  • #673
I don't see them as going to the Lake for adventure.

I think they went for a definite reason. They were instructed to go there.

They had been kicking around the house with gramma all morning, right? So why wait until the last minute to beg for a ride? They would have been out and about much earlier, if they were just biking for the fun of it.

:cow:

This post has stuck in my head all day. I don't believe it was coincidence that Lyric & Lizzie left their homebase again so close to their curfew (for lack of a better word). Having been in and out of the house during the morning, what if they received a phone call or email that instructed or invited them to come to the park? Obviously it would be from someone one or both of the girls knew and trusted enough to follow through on it. Maybe the same person Lyric & Aunt Tammy's daughter met earlier in the week? Say Mr./Ms. X (hereafter known simply as X for simplicity's sake) tells Lyric they need to meet again but that s/he will have to let Lyric know the time and place, or maybe X just knew when and where to call/email the girls. This presupposes X always planned to snatch one or both girls and made preparations for a quick and easy grab and getaway.

I'm working on a more in-depth theory, but I'm just not awake enough to verbalize my thoughts well. For now, I want to know two things:

1. Where did Lyric and cousin go on July 9? (and don't give me that "destination" garbage)
2. Who did they talk to?

I feel like these two questions are the key to cracking this and getting justice for our girls.
 
  • #674
I haven't been able to explain why D or M would want to harm their children. Maybe through messed up times they might have neglected them & been away from them a lot but I just can't get to where they harm them. Through that neglect maybe something happened with someone that the family knows.

I'm actually on someone(s) else tail & do keep all theories in mind until there's an arrest or almost an arrest. You just never know with limited information.
 
  • #675
Ooops, sorry.:what:

I replied to otto's post because I think Meyers Lake could be a place someone with a lunch hour or free time would choose to go.

I don't actually buy into the perv eating lunch at the park theory, but I don't see why it couldn't be possible. JMO

My theory at this stage is that the perp(s) could be anyone, except
specific members of the family who are accounted for! There is so
little firm hard evidence of any kind, even times are relative, and no
firm witnesses to anything that is known to be crucial (at our disposal)
... one might almost suggest it was a 'band of wolves' passing through,
and ran to 7-Brdiges with their victims. And I dont say this easily -

Without hard evidence how can 'we' judge anything?
 
  • #676
The day I get out of the immediate area & the lead takes me elsewhere will be a blessing. Help, I can't get out of the 2 or 3 mile area yet. Well, maybe I'm up to 5 or 6 but that's just recently. A few with Bremer connections possibly. Too many ties within this community by family names & locations. Majority are some of the best people you'd ever want to know I've found out. Thank you Elizabeth & Lyric for bringing me to meet your community & family. It's amazing from where I live in AZ. xoxo RIP.
 
  • #677
Dogs, wolves, coyote and fox all instinctively track from oldest to newest scent. Any animal that hunts for food does so because if they don't, they aren't likely to eat. A fairly common newbie training mistake to make is to teach the dog to track backwards. It isn't that dogs cannot track backwards, it's just that they have a strong instinctive desire to track forwards. I think we can rule out that sort of newbie training error in the case of the FBI dogs.

Now, imagine that the dog is looking for scent and moving along a path that is perpendicular to the scent trail. The two paths make a shape like a capital T (dog's path the vertical stroke, target scent the horizontal stroke). There's a chance that the dog will initially start tracking backwards. But an experienced, well trained dog will reverse within 10 feet if they find themselves going backwards. A normal, healthy human can cover 10 feet in 1-2 seconds at a brisk walk. So that means that a dog can tell the difference between scent that is 2 hours old and scent that is 2 hours 2 seconds old.

Pretty amazing!

A very common LE task for dogs is to figure out if a certain item was placed by the target person or if that item got into the environment in some other way. So the dog will be given the target scent from an item known to have been handled by the target person. Then they take the dog to where the item was found in the environment and the handler does the equivalent of asking the dog "did the target person go anywhere after this item was left here?"

The dog will check out the item and indicate "yeah, the target person was definitely here." Then the dog starts searching to find out where the target person went next. Most dogs will start making a loose spiral centred on the item. If they can't find any newer scent, they will go back to the item and then resume casting for newer scent.

Depending on the dog, they will circle the item 1-4 times before checking back at the item. Usually by the second time the dog checks back to the item, they are giving off definite signals of "ain't no newer scent here, partner." The handler usually encourages the dog to try again but at some point, the dog makes it clear that they are simply not finding newer scent. Some dogs will bark at their handlers in a very annoyed tone, as if they were saying "what part of this are you choosing not to understand???" Dogs are willing workers and remarkably tolerant but they don't have infinite patience.

I am purely speculating here: I think that when dogs are in an environment that they perceive it very differently from humans. For a human, it would probably be like being able to see a type of ghost of everyone who had moved through that environment in the last 2-4 weeks plus seeing the solid form of anyone who is actually present in the environment.

As a general guideline, if a scent question can be phrased in such a way as to require a yes/no answer, then a dog can be trained to answer the question.

and how does this apply concretely to the case at hand?
 
  • #678
To my knowledge, neither adult males nor adolescent males seek treatment for poison ivy....:)

They scratch 'til things are silly messy, possibly put on creams or lotions, then scratch again, possibly complain...

But have never known or heard of any man seeking treatment for posion ivy...

BUT, you never know....

So good question...

My husband got chiggers on our honeymoon . LOL (He didn't know what they were) I mean ALL over his body....and I used a whole bottle of fingernail polish..except for the "sensitive" areas. I still crack up thinking about it. All the AAAAAHHHHH screams because he wanted to scratch so bad.
 
  • #679
To my knowledge, neither adult males nor adolescent males seek treatment for poison ivy....:)

They scratch 'til things are silly messy, possibly put on creams or lotions, then scratch again, possibly complain...

But have never known or heard of any man seeking treatment for posion ivy...

BUT, you never know....

So good question...


My husband who never goes to the doctors unless he is very very sick and has no choice, went when he got poison ivy that was very bad and he was driven crazy by the itching.So you never know if it spread all over the itching will drive you crazy.
 
  • #680
Misty:


I don't find it confusing. Lyric and K* had permission to walk to the park. It's summer and they are 10 and 11 years old. The two girls stayed longer than expected. Misty and Tammy went to look for them at the park but they didn't see them - "they weren't there". Then, the girls arrive. It sounds to me like they were walking back to their destination (I think I remember it being Tammy's house?) and Misty and Tammy didn't see them. Lyric and her cousin may have come home on a different street than Misty and Tammy used to get to and from the park. For example, "I'm sick of always walking the same old way. Let's take the long way home this time" or "Let's walk down this street on the way back and see if Mary Jane is back from her piano lesson, now". The way they walked back may have taken them longer than they realized.

Thx This morning I had to pick someone up at 8 AM, but it's usually 8:10, so I got there at 8:10. At 8:25 (I'm a patient person) I left a message. It turned out that we had missed each other ... walking versus driving routes. Lyric and her 11 year old cousin being late a few days earlier may have been nothing more than walking routes veruis driving routes. Good point.
 
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