IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[otto]

My husband who never goes to the doctors unless he is very very sick and has no choice, went when he got poison ivy that was very bad and he was driven crazy by the itching.So you never know if it spread all over the itching will drive you crazy.

I had poison ivy when I visited the beach caves in Dieppe. The trick is to realize what it is and not scratch or touch the irritated skin, not even once.

 

[otto]

and how does this apply concretely to the case at hand?

Dog tracking.

FBI Breault said that the dogs tracked from the bikes to the water, a distance of about 10 feet. Tammy said that the dogs tracked to the nearby treed area which she described as something like 400 acres. It's a couple of acres 400 feet from the drainage gate. It's easy to mix up feet and yards and have no clue about the size of an acre.

 

[dizzigirl1]

This post has stuck in my head all day. I don't believe it was coincidence that Lyric & Lizzie left their homebase again so close to their curfew (for lack of a better word). Having been in and out of the house during the morning, what if they received a phone call or email that instructed or invited them to come to the park? Obviously it would be from someone one or both of the girls knew and trusted enough to follow through on it. Maybe the same person Lyric & Aunt Tammy's daughter met earlier in the week? Say Mr./Ms. X (hereafter known simply as X for simplicity's sake) tells Lyric they need to meet again but that s/he will have to let Lyric know the time and place, or maybe X just knew when and where to call/email the girls. This presupposes X always planned to snatch one or both girls and made preparations for a quick and easy grab and getaway.

I'm working on a more in-depth theory, but I'm just not awake enough to verbalize my thoughts well. For now, I want to know two things:

1. Where did Lyric and cousin go on July 9? (and don't give me that "destination" garbage)
2. Who did they talk to?

I feel like these two questions are the key to cracking this and getting justice for our girls.

Those two questions are the burning issues for me. I have spent little time pondering whether bikes were up or down facing east or west (that could be because i get confused unless i see the ocean lol) My strengths do not lay in wondering about the timing of an event. My strengths and interests lay in the behaviours of the players that lead to the conclusion of the event.

My theory sits around a known person. They are probably super friendly on the outside but controlling on the inside & more than capable of manipulating adults let alone a couple of kids into doing what they want. We have unsolved murders in australia where more than one child has been abducted and murdered at the same time by one person sadly a couple still unsolved after many years. I really believe we should be looking at July 9th. I have said before that i believe that is possible that Tammy inadvertently knows this person. I do not believe its drug related. I dont think it was an RSO. More like a thrill kill as in possibly they get sexual satisfaction in the killing action (hope that makes sense - their profit) Possibly they have fantasized about doing this for a long time & for now, its been enough to satisfy them or they are back at work after an extended time off & are unable to take the time to do what they enjoyed. The thrill at the moment could be in building the trust with someone else knowing what they want to do. I apologise for not being into the detail type stuff and more into the how does that brain work stuff but its the reason why i am addicted to reading what people think on here because i love the good way the mind works. Just fascinates me how a bad mind works.....

Thank you for reading my babble missive & letting me share

 

[otto]

My theory at this stage is that the perp(s) could be anyone, except specific members of the family who are accounted for! There is so little firm hard evidence of any kind, even times are relative, and no firm witnesses to anything that is known to be crucial (at our disposal) ... one might almost suggest it was a 'band of wolves' passing through, and ran to 7-Brdiges with their victims. And I dont say this easily -

Without hard evidence how can 'we' judge anything?

That's true. I don't think that Heather and Drew were ever viewed as serious suspects, and Misty & Dan are not considered suspects. Hopefully the discussion can move on from the family ... unless someone in the family is a suspect?

It seems obvious that all of the accounts given by family align once one takes the time to understand the case.

There is hard evidence. There are two crime scenes. The police have been clueless since July 13 and they're still clueless. They immediately requested assistance from the FBI and apparently the FBI are also clueless. The bodies were found, after all, by chance.

It may have been a pack of wolves, but more likely a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[otto]

Those two questions are the burning issues for me. I have spent little time pondering whether bikes were up or down facing east or west (that could be because i get confused unless i see the ocean lol) My strengths do not lay in wondering about the timing of an event. My strengths and interests lay in the behaviours of the players that lead to the conclusion of the event.

My theory sits around a known person. They are probably super friendly on the outside but controlling on the inside & more than capable of manipulating adults let alone a couple of kids into doing what they want. We have unsolved murders in australia where more than one child has been abducted and murdered at the same time by one person sadly a couple still unsolved after many years. I really believe we should be looking at July 9th. I do not believe its drug related. I dont think it was an RSO. More like a thrill kill as in possibly they get sexual satisfaction in the killing action (hope that makes sense - their profit) Possibly they have fantasized about doing this for a long time & for now, its been enough to satisfy them or they are back at work after an extended time off & are unable to take the time to do what they enjoyed. The thrill at the moment could be in building the trust with someone else knowing what they want to do. I apologise for not being into the detail type stuff and more into the how does that brain work stuff but its the reason why i am addicted to reading what people think on here because i love the good way the mind works. Just fascinates me how a bad mind works.....

Thank you for reading my babble missive & letting me share

<snipped by me>

Police have obviously thoroughly investigated the day that Lyric and her cousin were late coming home. If there was anything there, they would have a clue ... since her 11 year old cousin is stll alive. The 11 year old child has obviously told the enitre story to investigators upsidedown and sideways. Clearly, that event did not generate any clues.

 

[Dr. Know?]

That's true. I don't think that Heather and Drew were ever viewed as serious suspects, and Misty & Dan are not considered suspects. Hopefully the discussion can move on from the family ... unless someone in the family is a suspect?

It seems obvious that all of the accounts given by family align once one takes the time to understand the case.

There is hard evidence. There are two crime scenes. The police have been clueless since July 13 and they're still clueless. They immediately requested assistance from the FBI and apparently the FBI are also clueless. The bodies were found, after all, by chance.

It may have been a pack of wolves, but more likely a wolf in sheep's clothing.

BBM

What? The LE are clueless and FBI too? What if they have several arrested already or in eyesight? Where did that idea of clueless come from? I'm not ready to say the LE/FBI/DCI were clueless. It's common procedure anymore for FBI to be involved in missing children's cases. Thank Goodness for whatever any of them can unturn.

 

[dizzigirl1]

<snipped by me>

Police have obviously thoroughly investigated the day that Lyric and her cousin were late coming home. If there was anything there, they would have a clue ... since her 11 year old cousin is stll alive. The 11 year old child has obviously told the enitre story to investigators upsidedown and sideways. Clearly, that event did not generate any clues.

You are right. They would have thoroughly investigated it. I think silence is golden. I dont believe its a sign of not knowing. Getting FBI involved fairly quickly leads me to believe they had something hinkey really early on. Something that they needed specialised help in. Thats why despite not much being said about July 9th does not stop my belief that it could very well be related

 

[otto]

This post has stuck in my head all day. I don't believe it was coincidence that Lyric & Lizzie left their homebase again so close to their curfew (for lack of a better word). Having been in and out of the house during the morning, what if they received a phone call or email that instructed or invited them to come to the park? Obviously it would be from someone one or both of the girls knew and trusted enough to follow through on it. Maybe the same person Lyric & Aunt Tammy's daughter met earlier in the week? Say Mr./Ms. X (hereafter known simply as X for simplicity's sake) tells Lyric they need to meet again but that s/he will have to let Lyric know the time and place, or maybe X just knew when and where to call/email the girls. This presupposes X always planned to snatch one or both girls and made preparations for a quick and easy grab and getaway.

I'm working on a more in-depth theory, but I'm just not awake enough to verbalize my thoughts well. For now, I want to know two things:

1. Where did Lyric and cousin go on July 9? (and don't give me that "destination" garbage)
2. Who did they talk to?

I feel like these two questions are the key to cracking this and getting justice for our girls.

The children went to the park and possibly criss-crossed paths with their parents as they were walking home. Whatever Lyric and her 11 year old cousin did during that walk has been thoroughly investigated. It has generated no leads. That excusion is no more helpful than computer searches ... a dead end.

Maybe they knew that if they took off closer to curfew (when Wylma planned to briefly leave them in the care of the oldest sibling), their grandmother would drive a couple of blocks and not worry too much. Maybe it's happened before (especially if the first message was: "come and find your kids"). Maybe they thought that they had about 45 minutes to an hour of free time before their moms got involved ... and just maybe they'd mentioned going to the lake and been told that they were not allowed to ride to the lake. Two girls, wanting an adventure, thinking that they're big kids, decide to dupe Wylma because they think that they can get away with it ... mistakenly thinking that it's better to ask forgiveness than permission.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I appreciate everyones opinoin here. I do not like history rewritten on unknown facts. The door swings both ways.

jmo

 

[otto]

You are right. They would have thoroughly investigated it. I think silence is golden. I dont believe its a sign of not knowing. Getting FBI involved fairly quickly leads me to believe they had something hinkey really early on. Something that they needed specialised help in. Thats why despite not much being said about July 9th does not stop my belief that it could very well be related

I think that Evansdale did have something hnkey ... two girls vanished and their bikes and purse wered found 1.2 miles away 3 hours later and their bodies were found in a secluded location 20 miles away five months later. The didn't know what to do, so FBI brought in dogs. They too were lost.

 

[dizzigirl1]

I think that Evansdale did have something hnkey ... two girls vanished and their bikes and purse wered found 1.2 miles away 3 hours later and their bodies were found in a secluded location 20 miles away five months later. The didn't know what to do, so FBI brought in dogs. They too were lost.

I get where you are coming from. Very little accurate info is around for us to get down to the nitty gritty & resolve on fact. Its frustrating. I get why you think that LE are stumped. To me, it simply says that the LE in control of this prefer to be very sure of their facts & are being meticulous in crossing off things & bowing to the culture of needing to know everything now. Thats why the lake was searched, dogs were brought in etc. The girls may not have gone for a swim but it still needed to be checked. Personally, i would hate having the world on my shoulders, watching & waiting for answers. Especially given the time frame between the girls going & being found. We all want resolution now. Its the world we live in. I respect your opinions and theories. I also love your detail in your maps. They have helped me visualise my theories in my head. Im am glad you shared more with me

 

[MNDad]

Please don't stop taking your breaks at the park. No perv would dare mess with a kid with a Websleuther around! :websleuther:

I better get vanity plates and door magnets so they know.

 

[Bootsctr]

I better get vanity plates and door magnets so they know.

:floorlaugh: Thanks! I needed that. :floorlaugh:

 

[MNDad]

I had poison ivy when I visited the beach caves in Dieppe. The trick is to realize what it is and not scratch or touch the irritated skin, not even once.

I have lived in Minnesota my whole life except for nine years in Florida. In MN, poison ivy is so popular that it might as well be our lawns. I have gone camping and spelunking and have never paid attention to the vegetation. I have never had a reaction to poison ivy. When my kids ask "is that poison ivy", I pick it up and smash it in my fingers and jokingly say "this? I don't know".

I don't know that the lack of a poison ivy victim rules out someone hiding on maiden lane.

 

[Bootsctr]

I have lived in Minnesota my whole life except for nine years in Florida. In MN, poison ivy is so popular that it might as well be our lawns. I have gone camping and spelunking and have never paid attention to the vegetation. I have never had a reaction to poison ivy. When my kids ask "is that poison ivy", I pick it up and smash it in my fingers and jokingly say "this? I don't know".

I don't know that the lack of a poison ivy victim rules out someone hiding on maiden lane.

You're very lucky! My husband and I are both highly allergic to it! You learn, as otto stated above, NEVER to even start scratching it. And believe me, you learn what the ITCH of poison ivy feels like too. Have had it so bad had to have cortisone shots and then take a course of pills to get rid of it. Also, important to add, steer clear of burning the stuff because the oils or whatever irritant it contains can be carried in the smoke!

We are in agreement regarding the lack of poison ivy victim ruling out someone hiding on maiden lane!! I think it is much more likely someone was late returning to work, or didn't show up, or was absent at an event... something someone really did not think much of at the time, but in hindsight seems odd.

 

[RNER]

That's true. I don't think that Heather and Drew were ever viewed as serious suspects, and Misty & Dan are not considered suspects. Hopefully the discussion can move on from the family ... unless someone in the family is a suspect?

It seems obvious that all of the accounts given by family align once one takes the time to understand the case.

There is hard evidence. There are two crime scenes. The police have been clueless since July 13 and they're still clueless. They immediately requested assistance from the FBI and apparently the FBI are also clueless. The bodies were found, after all, by chance.

It may have been a pack of wolves, but more likely a wolf in sheep's clothing.

...or a "Big Bad Wolf!":what:

 

[Bootsctr]

...or a "Big Bad Wolf!":what:

Exactly!

 

[threecrazykids]

So, for those of you who are certain that LE isn't stumped, have their ducks in a row, and are just waiting for....

What?...

The autopsy results/forensics?

Someone to run their mouth to ensure another "slam dunk" (like the Evelyn Miller case)...

What is stopping LE from making an arrest?

The reason I ask is because for one, if any fingerprints were on the bikes AND the perp/perps had been arrested before, then their prints would have been in the database.


I'm only asking because I'm curious as to what other sleuthers are thinking is holding things up. What is missing to bring justice to these two beautiful girls?
That of course is assuming prints were able to be lifted.

If it was a family member or the girls prints only there would be a valid explanation to their prints being on the bike.

I am going to have to assume that since it was back in July when the bikes were found, it's safe to say that either they weren't able to lift prints or the people's prints that were on the bike didn't produce enough evidence to warrant an arrest.

What is LE waiting for??

 

[Marilynilpa]

You are right. They would have thoroughly investigated it. I think silence is golden. I dont believe its a sign of not knowing. Getting FBI involved fairly quickly leads me to believe they had something hinkey really early on. Something that they needed specialised help in. Thats why despite not much being said about July 9th does not stop my belief that it could very well be related

It isn't unusual for the FBI to become involved. Here's some info about that:

Notify the Federal Bureau of Investigation: If you suspect a predatory abduction. The FBI will initiate a kidnapping investigation involving a missing child of tender years, defined as a child twelve years or younger, even though there is no known interstate aspect. The FBI will monitor other kidnapping situations when there is no evidence of interstate travel, and it offers assistance from various entities including the FBI Laboratory. They have written protocols, dedicated agents, unsurpassed resources and vast experience in this specialized investigative field.

http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-mc-whattodo.htm

 

[RNER]

So, for those of you who are certain that LE isn't stumped, have their ducks in a row, and are just waiting for....

What?...

The autopsy results/forensics?

Someone to run their mouth to ensure another "slam dunk" (like the Evelyn Miller case)...

What is stopping LE from making an arrest?

The reason I ask is because for one, if any fingerprints were on the bikes AND the perp/perps had been arrested before, then their prints would have been in the database.


I'm only asking because I'm curious as to what other sleuthers are thinking is holding things up. What is missing to bring justice to these two beautiful girls?
That of course is assuming prints were able to be lifted.

If it was a family member or the girls prints only there would be a valid explanation to their prints being on the bike.

I am going to have to assume that since it was back in July when the bikes were found, it's safe to say that either they weren't able to lift prints or the people's prints that were on the bike didn't produce enough evidence to warrant an arrest.

What is LE waiting for??

I think LE has a suspect, motive, evidence, and the perp was questioned and maybe even arrested for something else prior to the bodies being found. At that time, since there were no bodies or "slam duck" evidence to arrest the person for murder, he/she/they bonded out or were let go from their previous charges. I think the person(s) killed and disposed of the bodies sometimes afterwards and left the area or country. I think LE needs to find the person to make an arrest, and alerting the public to the name and witnesses, evidence would not be good!