IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[threecrazykids]

So, at this point in the investigation who believes this was a completely random abduction?

Who thinks this was someone who was familiar with the girls? NOT FAMILY :tos: but someone who the girls would be comfortable going with?

 

[Marilynilpa]

So, at this point in the investigation who believes this was a completely random abduction?

Who thinks this was someone who was familiar with the girls? NOT FAMILY :tos: but someone who the girls would be comfortable going with.

I don't think this was a completely random abduction.

 

[cindersoot]

So, at this point in the investigation who believes this was a completely random abduction?

Who thinks this was someone who was familiar with the girls? NOT FAMILY :tos: but someone who the girls would be comfortable going with.

My gut tells me I shouldn't have ate that chili last night., No, anyway, it tells me that girls got to know and feel comfortable with the perp on their many bike rides.

 

[chelsea6]

My gut tells me I shouldn't have ate that chili last night., No, anyway, it tells me that girls got to know and feel comfortable with the perp on their many bike rides.

With what little facts we have to go on, for me I'm leaning at 60% one way and 40% the other. There are way too many inconsistencies for me to have a 100% gut feeling right now. :websleuther: :scale:

 

[alliemay]

So, at this point in the investigation who believes this was a completely random abduction?

Who thinks this was someone who was familiar with the girls? NOT FAMILY :tos: but someone who the girls would be comfortable going with?

Random would be spur of the moment, and I don't think this person was sitting at the park waiting for them, but IMO I think they were being watched, maybe that day or maybe many days, when did school get out? As far as the girls knowing him, not sure, maybe they had seen him on the street, maybe they had talked to him in the store? I'm sure LE went through everything the girls owned, but in my own imagination, I think about how some girls keep diaries and hide them. I did when I was younger, yeah,.... I know, those thoughts are just wishful thinking. I also think they were taken somewhere other than Seven Bridges to be killed, I think the area they were found was referred to as "a dumping ground". I would think the killer would have wanted more privacy.

 

[Hexe]

So, at this point in the investigation who believes this was a completely random abduction?

Who thinks this was someone who was familiar with the girls? NOT FAMILY :tos: but someone who the girls would be comfortable going with?

I do. My gut says it was either someone well known to them or the perp was grooming them before. You know, convinced them that he is a friend and they can trust him.

 

[tlcya]

I am torn between the girls being lured by someone known to them over a period of time. To the girls being taken by someone familiar with seeing them but who they may not have been as familiar with, such as (example only) someone who works for or with one of the four parents involved, or at a place frequented by a set of parents, etc. Someone who was watching them although it wasn't really on the girls' radar that they were being watched.

ETA
If there was targeting I should have made it the girl, not the girls plural, because if targeting occurred I am reasonably sure only one was targeted and the other was an inconvenience to be dealt with.

 

[Bootsctr]

So, at this point in the investigation who believes this was a completely random abduction?

Who thinks this was someone who was familiar with the girls? NOT FAMILY :tos: but someone who the girls would be comfortable going with?

I feel it's someone the girls would be comfortable going with and I think it could be related to someone who has been to the same church as the Collins or the church closer to the Collins home. I now think the perp is older, like Gran described in an earlier post. No explanation, just a feeling.

On the other hand, in an opposite scenario, someone waited until the 13th hour of the 13th day to take these girls. It was a strange day indeed!

 

[JaimeInLA]

Not. Random. AT ALL.

 

[foxbluff]

O
M
G
!

Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot
?
?
?

I see that.

I don't know what to think about that :waitasec:

B I N G O ! ! !

I enjoyed all your comments. I, too, doubt we're looking at a garden variety troll as she seems too good at it on this particular subj. (She actually made my stomach queasy.)

Now... this is strictly my personal opinion: I hope nobody here, or there, reports her to the website. Irrespective of whether or not "A" has ever had any dealings in IA, I believe it's in society's best interest to let her keep talking. It might be a case of "the more she says, the better."

 

[SapphireSteel]

So, at this point in the investigation who believes this was a completely random abduction?

Who thinks this was someone who was familiar with the girls? NOT FAMILY :tos: but someone who the girls would be comfortable going with?

Not me.

I've never seen how it could be, once you take all the facts (that we know) into consideration.

Details can be explained away in isolation, but put them all together and you have a crime that seems planned to almost the last detail.

To my suspicious mind, anyway, it appears completely obvious that someone knew the girls were going to be on (or near) that path at that lake at that time.

:cow:

 

[Reverie]

Not. Random. AT ALL.

Same.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Not random. I believe the girls knew their abductor(s)...or at least thought they did

 

[carbuff]

It could have been carefully planned from the killer's point of view and random from the girls' perspective. He could have been hanging around the area, scouting out likely kidnapping and dump sites, locating places where kids were likely to be hanging out without any adults around, and generally planning the crime to the last detail so that when an appropriate victim came through, he was ready to jump. That it was two instead of one might have just added to the thrill.

I used to think it was somebody in the extended family -- or friend/coworker/neighbor of the family. But if the dogs really did scent the girls at the lake, that makes me incline toward stranger. Somebody they knew well would not have had to accost them in the only stretch of trail that can't be seen from anywhere.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

It could have been carefully planned from the killer's point of view and random from the girls' perspective. He could have been hanging around the area, scouting out likely kidnapping and dump sites, locating places where kids were likely to be hanging out without any adults around, and generally planning the crime to the last detail so that when an appropriate victim came through, he was ready to jump. That it was two instead of one might have just added to the thrill.

I used to think it was somebody in the extended family -- or friend/coworker/neighbor of the family. But if the dogs really did scent the girls at the lake, that makes me incline toward stranger. Somebody they knew well would not have had to accost them in the only stretch of trail that can't be seen from anywhere.

You make some good points here. But it could've been someone the girls were talking to that the family didn't know about. Someone at least one of the girls knew. Maybe even both. The girls were not supposed to be at the lake. I think someone lured them there. And I think the adductor is under 30, possibly under 25.

 

[palaminodee]

OT: no words for this
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ch...cle_a2aab6bc-696a-11e2-9b0e-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

OT: no words for this
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ch...cle_a2aab6bc-696a-11e2-9b0e-001a4bcf887a.html

Wow. That is all I can say. Some people do not deserve to have children.

 

[threecrazykids]

OT: no words for this
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ch...cle_a2aab6bc-696a-11e2-9b0e-001a4bcf887a.html

These stories never cease to amaze me.

God forbid ONE of them stay home instead of both of them going to the store.:banghead:

How horribly sad for those 2 babies. It was FREEZING here yesterday and W'loo is north of here, and reportedly colder than our temps even 30 mins south. That poor baby is lucky someone found him when they did. It was freezing rain, ice and sleet most of the days yesterday...luckily he didn't slip and fall outside...or even worse walk in front of a vehicle that couldn't stop.

Poor punkin'.

 

[carbuff]

You make some good points here. But it could've been someone the girls were talking to that the family didn't know about. Someone at least one of the girls knew. Maybe even both. The girls were not supposed to be at the lake. I think someone lured them there. And I think the adductor is under 30, possibly under 25.

It certainly could be somebody like that and a situation like that. I'm still inclined to the stranger or near stranger, and just bad luck that the girls happened to pick that day to break their rules, but the arguments for other scenarios are strong, too.

 

[otto]

Random would be spur of the moment, and I don't think this person was sitting at the park waiting for them, but IMO I think they were being watched, maybe that day or maybe many days, when did school get out? As far as the girls knowing him, not sure, maybe they had seen him on the street, maybe they had talked to him in the store? I'm sure LE went through everything the girls owned, but in my own imagination, I think about how some girls keep diaries and hide them. I did when I was younger, yeah,.... I know, those thoughts are just wishful thinking. I also think they were taken somewhere other than Seven Bridges to be killed, I think the area they were found was referred to as "a dumping ground". I would think the killer would have wanted more privacy.

I see "spontaneous" as spur of the moment, and "random" as meaning a child was abducted because there was an opportunity. Jessica Ridgeway's abduction was not spontaneous, as Austin Sigg was pre-occupied with attacking and abducting someone. It was random because Austin and Jessica had no relationship; they were strangers.

This abduction does not seem spontaneous. Instead, it seems well thought out and planned (just like the abduction of Jessica), so carefully planned that police still had no clue where to search after 5 months. It also seems random in the sense that these two girls were somehow lured to that spot on the trail by a stranger. That would not necessarily mean that they had any type of relationship with the perp, but that the perp provided them with a reason to ride to the SE tip of the lake, park their bikes and wait for something to happen.