IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[cindersoot]

He is more or less irrelevant to the case. He did not see the children's bikes on the trail, since the children were on Brovan (per police timeline) when he was at the SE tip of Meyers Lake. What's curious is that he did not see the children at Elmer and Gilbert or Arbutus, since they should have all been at the same entrance to Meyers Lake parking lot at the same time.

OH for Petes sake Otto, leave that poor man alone. :floorlaugh:

 

[threecrazykids]

Maybe...or maybe not...

If you want to look at it in loose terms, I think nearly everyone living in this neck of the woods has meth connections. I have a second cousin who is an addict. So I have meth connections. I've worked with addicts and their children. So I have even more meth connections. My husband is from here. He went to school with lots of people who did meth. Some of them he even considered friends at one time. So he has meth connections. We have a farm and we've found meth-making materials on our property in the past. There's even more meth connections for us. We've had anhydrous ammonia stolen from our farm in the past. There's another meth connection. I could probably keep going.

That said, I still think that roles that Misty & Dan played in the drug world could very well be at the root of this. If Lyric was targeted as some sort of message or retaliation, then the connection isn't quite so loose. I'm very skeptical of this possibility though. I think that the bodies would have been left somewhere else if that were the case. If someone was trying to deliver a message, wouldn't they try to convey it sooner? Why not dump them next to a road, where they would be discovered immediately? Heck, why not dump them right in the middle of the turn-around at 7 bridges? They would have been found within a day or two.

I think they were dumped where they were because the killer wanted them to be found or didn't care if they were found. I think he wanted to buy himself some decomp time though. I think he wanted some evidence to be destroyed. I think this was a crime of sexual nature. If I had to bet money on it, that's what I would bank on.

I really just wish we could get LE or confirm if they have an evidence of sexual assault or not. That would narrow so much down.

I'm curious...in your hearing of the drug connection chatter going on in Evansdale, has anyone mentioned or acknowledged the fact that this didn't happen in Lyric's (or Misty and Dan's, I should say) stomping ground? This happened where Elizabeth lived...not Lyric.

Why would this person follow Lyric to a small town AND abduct Elizabeth when the pool of possible abductors (sex offenders/drug dealers) would be even higher in Waterloo? They would only have to worry about detaining Lyric...and not deal with TWO girls. Why increase the chances for error or detection?

I know it's very easy to conclude the connection, because honestly I think it's easier for everyone to (in a sick word) "understand" why it happened if it was drug related (versus some sicko abducting and sexually assaulting TWO girls on a lazy summer day in small town Iowa).


I have mentioned this before, and I'm stating it again...if this is NOT connected to the drugs, this killer picked a perfect child to abduct because their drug riddled past is certainly taking center stage.

It also makes me think about the factor of abducting Elizabeth along with Lyric, this opens up the pool from it "clearly" being a drug connection to "clearly" being a sexually driven offense.

Also, I agree...if LE did go ahead and state if their was or was not a sexual connection I think it would narrow down the pool of offenders, and possibly take the focus down a productive path to finding who did this.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Oh so sorry. Lets go back to talking about Dan, and meth. :furious:

Oh chill a minute.

There is not much sense (to me) to keep on and on about irrelevant things. It is as bad here as it is on another forum that has tunnel vision making all the parents to be evil.

(And, the remark was not just meant for you cindersoot).

I just get so tired of it. The perp is someone we have never ever heard of yet. I guarnatee it, money back guarantee it.

 

[cindersoot]

Oh chill a minute.

There is not much sense (to me) to keep on and on about irrelevant things. It is as bad here as it is on another forum that has tunnel vision making all the parents to be evil.

(And, the remark was not just meant for you cindersoot).

I just get so tired of it. The perp is someone we have never ever heard of yet. I guarnatee it, money back guarantee it.

:lamb:

 

[otto]

"Police are asking anyone who may have seen the girls in Evansdale or near the lake, particularly along three streets, Arbutus Avenue, Gilbert Drive and Elmer Avenue, to contact the police department."

http://www.wowt.com/mobi/news?storyid=169692266

"Police said they have "information that the girls were seen approximately 12:23 p.m. on Brovan Blvd. and between 12:30 p.m. and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert Dr. in the area of Meyers Lake in Evansdale."

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...16587274/-/uehv67z/-/index.html#ixzz2LqGT8Uxj

Arbutus connects with Gilbert and leads to Maiden Lane. Gilbert and Elmer is the intersection at the entrance to the park. The cyclist, who left the parking lot at Meyers Lake at about 12:30 via Elmer and Gilbert, cycled along Gilbert past Lake Avenue (lawn watering man) until he reached the Evansdale Nature Trail. The cyclist and the girls must have missed each other by minutes.

What's curious is that the cyclist reported seeing two bikes on the trail before the girls got there and that he didn't see the girls on Gilbert even though they should have been at the same place at almost the same time.

 

[Reverie]

There has been a lot of discussion about the temperature on July 13, with most comments indicating that it was extremely hot and extremely humid. This perception of the temperature has supported the theory that very few people were outside on July 13. I think that it's important to exclude personal perceptions and judge for ourselves. The temperature on July 13 isn't really a debateable point ... it's simply a fact ... one that seems important to this case in terms of whether people were outside, on the trails, going about normal business, or whether everyone was indoors and unaware of what was happening in the community.

When I read comments from locals that claim the weather was very hot on July 13, or that it was muggy, too hot to go outside and so on, I become curious about how hot and humid it really was. Now I understand that it was not hot, not muggy, but that some people decided to stay indoors ... presumably for the entire month of July ... because 83 degrees is perceived as very hot.

That fact that some people perceive 83 degrees as very hot should have no bearing on the case, and should not result in the belief that everyone in Evansdale stayed indoors because it was 83 degrees, a cooler day than the rest of the month.

Where is a post that states that EVERYONE in Evansdale stayed indoors because it was 83 degrees?

 

[ashleyd8402]

I'm curious...in your hearing of the drug connection chatter going on in Evansdale, has anyone mentioned or acknowledged the fact that this didn't happen in Lyric's (or Misty and Dan's, I should say) stomping ground? This happened where Elizabeth lived...not Lyric.

Why would this person follow Lyric to a small town AND abduct Elizabeth when the pool of possible abductors (sex offenders/drug dealers) would be even higher in Waterloo? They would only have to worry about detaining Lyric...and not deal with TWO girls. Why increase the chances for error or detection?

I know it's very easy to conclude the connection, because honestly I think it's easier for everyone to (in a sick word) "understand" why it happened if it was drug related (versus some sicko abducting and sexually assaulting TWO girls on a lazy summer day in small town Iowa).

I have mentioned this before, and I'm stating it again...if this is NOT connected to the drugs, this killer picked a perfect child to abduct because their drug riddled past is certainly taking center stage.

It also makes me think about the factor of abducting Elizabeth along with Lyric, this opens up the pool from it "clearly" being a drug connection to "clearly" being a sexually driven offense.

Outside of this forum, I haven't seen or heard anyone acknowledge or make light of the fact that the girls were at Elizabeth's house and that it wasn't ordinarily Lyric's stomping grounds.

For the most part, Lyric wasn't raised by her parents. Anyone who knew the family very well was likely to know that. Lyric was with her grandma most. She probably also spent a whole lot of time with the Collins family. If someone was looking to target Lyric, I would think that they would know that they would probably find her wherever grandma was. It couldn't have been terribly difficult to follow grandma around and wait for an opportunity to nab Lyric when grandma wasn't looking. Elizabeth may have just been a victim of circumstance. The killer couldn't leave a witness. Maybe the killer was super angry. They knew that killing Elizabeth too would deliver an even bigger message.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I don't think the drug connection is behind this. I think it would have been solved long ago if that were the case. It seems like a crime of that nature would be easy to solve. The drug world here can't be that quiet. Meth makes people talk! This is Iowa. We're not talking about the mafia. And even if we were, even they had snitches.

 

[cindersoot]

:yourock:

Outside of this forum, I haven't seen or heard anyone acknowledge or make light of the fact that the girls were at Elizabeth's house and that it wasn't ordinarily Lyric's stomping grounds.

For the most part, Lyric wasn't raised by her parents. Anyone who knew the family very well was likely to know that. Lyric was with her grandma most. She probably also spent a whole lot of time with the Collins family. If someone was looking to target Lyric, I would think that they would know that they would probably find her wherever grandma was. It couldn't have been terribly difficult to follow grandma around and wait for an opportunity to nab Lyric when grandma wasn't looking. Elizabeth may have just been a victim of circumstance. The killer couldn't leave a witness. Maybe the killer was super angry. They knew that killing Elizabeth too would deliver an even bigger message.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I don't think the drug connection is behind this. I think it would have been solved long ago if that were the case. It seems like a crime of that nature would be easy to solve. The drug world here can't be that quiet. Meth makes people talk! This is Iowa. We're not talking about the mafia. And even if we were, even they had snitches.

:yourock:

 

[otto]

Where is a post that states that EVERYONE in Evansdale stayed indoors because it was 83 degrees?

I don't think that anyone has spoken for "everyone".

I've taken the time to search for references to how hot it was ... and in one thread, August 4 (random selection), on this forum, I easily found these remarks. Many more can be found with the search tool.

"I have no idea?? It's been hot, but no hotter than the day they dissapeared."

"Since July 13th Iowa has been in a constant heat wave, so most homes have windows closed and air on. Not alote of people sit outside during the hottest parts of the day, ie. between noon and three. So I just don't think anyone would of heard much."

"could perp known the gate was unlocked and had access from either lake side or trail side ??or was just from another town waiting in the hot hot grassy area that day hopeing??? "

 

[tlcya]

:banghead:

:banghead:

respectfully, some would call 83 hot. You do not. Not one of those quotes suggests that Evansdale was a ghost town due to the subjective "heat" on July 13, 2012.

done :deadhorse:

time for this girl to take a breather from this thread for the day.

 

[cindersoot]

:banghead:

:banghead:

respectfully, some would call 83 hot. You do not. Not one of those quotes suggests that Evansdale was a ghost town due to the subjective "heat" on July 13, 2012.

done :deadhorse:

time for this girl to take a breather from this thread for the day.[/QUO


:hot:

 

[otto]

:banghead:

:banghead:

respectfully, some would call 83 hot. You do not. Not one of those quotes suggests that Evansdale was a ghost town due to the subjective "heat" on July 13, 2012.

done :deadhorse:

time for this girl to take a breather from this thread for the day.

I had no idea that posting an accurate temperature and humidity for the day that the children vanished would create such controversy.

 

[cindersoot]

I have to say your right Otto, you were looking at it from a different angle, and I do appreciate that. I think we all are on edge because of the lack of information and we are pulling strings out of our butts. ( Is that the right quote)?

 

[Marilynilpa]

O/T, and please note this guy is NOT connected to our girls:

A convicted sex offender has been arrested for allegedly molesting two sisters, aged 13 and 15, after breaking into their home and threatening them.

Rithy Mam, 33, who was previously found guilty of child stalking, had removed his GPS ankle monitor in September before entering the girls' home in Stockton, California. He was later arrested in a public park and is now in custody on felony child molestation charges.

Mam committed the crime after being arrested three times in two months last year on similar accusations. However, he was later released because California's legislation on parolees has been relaxed due to overcrowding in prisons.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cking-devices-commit-crime.html#ixzz2LqUnTe10

 

[BunnyHop]

O/T, and please note this guy is NOT connected to our girls:

A convicted sex offender has been arrested for allegedly molesting two sisters, aged 13 and 15, after breaking into their home and threatening them.

Rithy Mam, 33, who was previously found guilty of child stalking, had removed his GPS ankle monitor in September before entering the girls' home in Stockton, California. He was later arrested in a public park and is now in custody on felony child molestation charges.

Mam committed the crime after being arrested three times in two months last year on similar accusations. However, he was later released because California's legislation on parolees has been relaxed due to overcrowding in prisons.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cking-devices-commit-crime.html#ixzz2LqUnTe10

 

[roseofsharon]

Regarding the 8-minute differential (surveillance video time stamp) ..... 12:11 p.m., but according to JP, the clock was 8 minutes slow, so per his US cellular phone, the time was actually 12:19 p.m.

TG sighting of the bikes 12:20 p.m.

Parapharasing: JP says it would be hard to ride a mile and a half in 8 minutes.

Where is the 8 minutes? The girls did not get to the lake (if they got there at all) in 8 minutes, if JP's VSC should have read 12:19 p.m.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

IMO

 

[ashleyd8402]

Regarding the 8-minute differential (surveillance video time stamp) ..... 12:11 p.m., but according to JP, the clock was 8 minutes slow, so per his US cellular phone, the time was actually 12:19 p.m.

TG sighting of the bikes 12:20 p.m.

Parapharasing: JP says it would be hard to ride a mile and a half in 8 minutes.

Where is the 8 minutes? The girls did not get to the lake (if they got there at all) in 8 minutes, if JP's VSC should have read 12:19 p.m.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

IMO

How much has the possibility that TG made the sighting up been explored?

 

[cindersoot]

I went to Evansdale last August and rode my bike from Collins house to Lafayette street to the bike trail straight to the back side of the lake where the bikes were found in 9 minutes. I'm middle aged and not a youngster.

 

[otto]

Regarding the 8-minute differential (surveillance video time stamp) ..... 12:11 p.m., but according to JP, the clock was 8 minutes slow, so per his US cellular phone, the time was actually 12:19 p.m.

TG sighting of the bikes 12:20 p.m.

Parapharasing: JP says it would be hard to ride a mile and a half in 8 minutes.

Where is the 8 minutes? The girls did not get to the lake (if they got there at all) in 8 minutes, if JP's VSC should have read 12:19 p.m.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

IMO

Wasn't that article (July 26) after the cyclist reported that he made a phone call at the parking lot (12:28)? I think the 8 minutes relates to people trying to include the cyclist's media remarks into the official timeline.

Since investigators have information that the girls were on Brovan at 12:23, and at Elmer/Gilbert at 12:30 - 1:00, the length of time it takes to cycle doesn't seem to matter.

 

[otto]

How much has the possibility that TG made the sighting up been explored?

It certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone injected themselves into a crminal investigation.
What's interesting is that the cyclist's media claim was taken seriously months after the police timeline contradicted the cyclist's claim in Septemer 2012.


Kind of funny when you think about it ... many people want police to make more statements about the investigation, but when they report that the parents are not considered suspects and that the children were seen cycling at 12:30-1:00, some people don't want to believe it.