IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[iamnotagolem]

I think Heather's outspoken forgiveness for the perp may prevent a lot of people from expressing their want For justice. If the mother and aunt of the victim has forgiven the perp and wants to know no details on the case, how does the community press for answers without upsetting the mother?

I want to reiterate I do not think Heather had anything to do with the girls' deaths, but on the JonBenet forum, it has been discussed about parents who forgive killers before the killer has been identified and prosecuted. I think this short thread is a good read....playing devil's advocate - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Heather forgiving the killer but not her own sister, makes me think that Heather knows who killed the girls, or has a good idea. Possibly she knows a general who, possibly there are 3 or 4 options but are all the same group of people. To better explain what I mean, maybe she knows it was the Smith (made up name) family whom they are very close friends with, but doesn't know if it was Grandpa, Dad, cousin, brother Smith, she just knows the Smith family was involved. Does that make sense?

 

[Squeeze]

I remember locals posting on various boards that they were affected. Didn't feel as safe, locked their doors, put more restrictions on their children etc. I am not sure what an outcry of the populace would like. Rallys? Petetions? The bodies have been recently found which is some progress in the case, albeit without much to do with investigation. In general it is very difficult to keep a group of people in engaged and avoid the apathy that comes afterwhile and the media all goes home. After awhile everyone goes on with their lives. The families are keeping it in the media, whether or not you agree with their venue. I just don't see that a steady drum beat from the town is possible or would be helpful. What aren't they doing that you think they should be doing?

If I thought that it would help, I would do it. I think we all just feel helpless. We know that LE isn't going to release any more information. We are all concerned, but internalizing it, IMO. Maybe we have been desensitized to all of it, knowing the kids go missing every day. Some are recovered safe, some are found deceased, some are never found. Maybe we are just too accepting.

On that note, I'm going to email Tony Thompson about a couple of questions that I have. Like, where EXACTLY were the bodies found?? And some others that I cant say here.

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[threecrazykids]

I think Heather's outspoken forgiveness for the perp may prevent a lot of people from expressing their want For justice. If the mother and aunt of the victim has forgiven the perp and wants to know no details on the case, how does the community press for answers without upsetting the mother?

I want to reiterate I do not think Heather had anything to do with the girls' deaths, but on the JonBenet forum, it has been discussed about parents who forgive killers before the killer has been identified and prosecuted. I think this short thread is a good read....playing devil's advocate - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Heather forgiving the killer but not her own sister, makes me think that Heather knows who killed the girls, or has a good idea. Possibly she knows a general who, possibly there are 3 or 4 options but are all the same group of people. To better explain what I mean, maybe she knows it was the Smith (made up name) family whom they are very close friends with, but doesn't know if it was Grandpa, Dad, cousin, brother Smith, she just knows the Smith family was involved. Does that make sense?

IMO I think Heather has forgiven but I am not so certain Misty has. Misty has also said she DOES want to know how her daughter was killed. Heather publically claims she doesn't.

Heather stated she forgave this person before her daughter's body was even found to know what had been done. I have not seen that from Misty or anyone else on the other 1/2 of this. They seem very separated in all aspects of the case.

 

[iamnotagolem]

there was a guy got out of his vehicle and started walking at the depot then i seen, when i returned he left as i did. there was two people fishing on north west corner of the lake . a vehicle pulled in as i was leaving the parking lot of the lake [/B]

There was "a guy". What kind of guy?

White? Black? Tall? Short? Old? Young? What was he wearing? What was he driving? Did you see which way he was walking? Did he have a pet with him? Did he have any type of cross body or hip bag or anything he could have carried a weapon in?

He arrived and left the depot at the exact same time? What time did you arrive and leave the depot? This person could possibly provide pertinent info.

2 people fishing on the NW corner of the lake? Same questions as above, just eliminate the part about the vehicle.

A vehicle pulled in as he was leaving? What kind of vehicle?

Even if the color/type of vehicle was seen leaving, maybe it was caught on CCTV enough to get the license plate and could be asked if they saw the girls since they were at the park BEFORE Mr. G left.

If only he was able to provide more detail, maybe there would be other people who could be questioned to THEIR whereabouts during that time. lease:

I am surprised by how many people TG saw at the lake that day, who was there within seconds of the girls, yet no one saw what happened to the girls (or if they did it wasn't enough for an arrest or to nail down details for the public). It was his daily bike ride, so remembering who he saw where all along his bike ride is pretty surprising. It's harder to remember what was where when you are in your regular routine, unless something stood out as different.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Is anyone else still unable to believe that Lyric and Elizabeth were the only two girls out and about on that summer day? There are 476 kids enrolled in Poyner elementary school in Evansdale (obviously there are probably more kids than that in town, as some are homeschooled) which averages 80 kids per grade. Let's just say that of the kids lyric and Elizabeth's ages, we will use grades 3, 4, & 5 then let's assume that half the kids in each class are girls, that is 40 per class. So that gives us roughly 120 girls in evansdale that are about the same ages as Elizabeth and Lyric. Follow me so far? So of the 120 girls in Evansdale, only 2 of them we outside on July 13? Only 2 kids were out riding bikes that day?

In reality, how likely is that? I really don't know.

 

[shoregirl]

Is anyone else still unable to believe that Lyric and Elizabeth were the only two girls out and about on that summer day? There are 476 kids enrolled in Poyner elementary school in Evansdale (obviously there are probably more kids than that in town, as some are homeschooled) which averages 80 kids per grade. Let's just say that of the kids lyric and Elizabeth's ages, we will use grades 3, 4, & 5 then let's assume that half the kids in each class are girls, that is 40 per class. So that gives us roughly 120 girls in evansdale that are about the same ages as Elizabeth and Lyric. Follow me so far? So of the 120 girls in Evansdale, only 2 of them we outside on July 13? Only 2 kids were out riding bikes that day?

In reality, how likely is that? I really don't know.

I hadn't thought of that. I just assumed they were going by the description.

 

[cindersoot]

Many are of the same opinion. I personally believe that LE is doing all they can do. I think they are taking personally because there are children involved. The lack of any real angst and the seemingly "move on with our lives" attitude of the families is not helping with the perception that LE is "allowing" the case to grow cold. As was just posted here, there are many cases where they know who it is and just can't get enough evidence to prove it. If that is true in this case, I have hit my head against the wall trying to figure out who that would be. There is not an obvious suspect that jumps out at me. Do you have a suspect?

Do I have a suspect? :floorlaugh:

 

[iamnotagolem]

I hadn't thought of that. I just assumed they were going by the description.

What description was given? An 8 & 10 y/o girl on bikes? I'd think anyone who saw two girls on bikes that day would assume it was Lyric and Elizabeth.

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibilities that some of the sightings were other kids.

 

[cindersoot]

If I thought that it would help, I would do it. I think we all just feel helpless. We know that LE isn't going to release any more information. We are all concerned, but internalizing it, IMO. Maybe we have been desensitized to all of it, knowing the kids go missing every day. Some are recovered safe, some are found deceased, some are never found. Maybe we are just too accepting.

On that note, I'm going to email Tony Thompson about a couple of questions that I have. Like, where EXACTLY were the bodies found?? And some others that I cant say here.

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I don't think Tony Thompson is going to tell you where the bodies were found, but if he does please share.lease:

 

[threecrazykids]

Do I have a suspect? :floorlaugh:

Is your bottom starting to round out again? I refer to it as NCB (naughty chair bottom). :floorlaugh:

 

[cindersoot]

Is your bottom starting to round out again? I refer to it as NCB (naughty chair bottom). :floorlaugh:

Actually I have a permanent indentation. :floorlaugh: You know me so well..:floorlaugh:

 

[cindersoot]

cinder, do you think some people in the community believe the abduction and murders of the girls is related somehow to family drug issues or connections? I'm not making accusations, I'm just wondering about the perception within the community.

If a lot of people are convinced this is related somehow to the family, that might explain why there isn't more of an outcry from the public to catch a killer who is still at large. :waitasec:

I have never though the family was involved. I just think if they were this case would of been solved along time ago. Why, because they are not that savy, again jmo.

 

[alliemay]

LE have never confirmed this.

The official "last seen" remains 12.15 on Brovan.

Unless someone else has a link to LE confirming otherwise?

Also, Mr G actually said that LE told him to pretty much ignore other people's times as things can be off for one reason or another.

Not sure where I read it now, but I think they used 2:15 because the camera said 2:11 but it was slow by eight minutes so 2:15 would be somewhere in between the two times? Could be wrong but thought i read it, going blind from reading so much

 

[otto]

I'm also not aloof to the fact that this is Mr. Pahl's time declaration, NOT LE's.
Where is LE's confirmation of the 12:11 or 12:19 time if Mr. Pahl and his video are correct? It's not there. LE doesn't recognize the video timestamp in their official timeline and for cryin out loud its a VIDEO!

LE has either disregarded the video as the girls, or have adjusted the timestamp of the video to 12:23 based on their investigation of the ACTUAL time of the video.

I'm not doubting the 12:23 sighting by LE, I'm saying the 12:23 sighting IS the video on Brovan - adjusted to the ACTUAL time they believe the video to have captured the girls.

Police have said that the children were seen at 12:15 on Brovan. There is information that they were on Brovan at 12:23, meaning (most likely) a tip. 12:15 most likely refers to the video, and it probably makes no difference to anyone whether it was 12:11, 12:15, or 12:19.

If 12:23 is the video, what is 12:15?

I don't have time to post the links again ... but they are easily found on google. It is a fact that police have provided two times: 12:15 and 12:23, not one.

 

[otto]

I would like to see a link, just saying.
Otherwise it's just hearsay to me.
Others are nit-picking over details.
If in fact the dogs tracked for "a mile" (per NG? cough cough) or LE, that's big.
If it's just hearsay then it holds no bearing IMO.

I have linked the FBI comment so many times that it's beyond me to find it again.

I suggest google using the following keywords: Breault Evansdale Bloodhound Dog Lake

Nancy Grace rarely sticks to the facts.

 

[cindersoot]

I have linked the FBI comment so many times that it's beyond me to find it again.

I suggest google using the following keywords: Breault Evansdale Bloodhound Dog Lake

Nancy Grace rarely sticks to the facts.

That's why I'm not taking the tracking scent mile comment very far. I just can't make it make sense. Nancy Grace likes to dramatize things to a ridiculous point sometimes. I have caught her on many times changing the facts.

 

[otto]

LE have never confirmed this.

The official "last seen" remains 12.15 on Brovan.

Unless someone else has a link to LE confirming otherwise?

Also, Mr G actually said that LE told him to pretty much ignore other people's times as things can be off for one reason or another.

Actually, his daughter posted that she met with police to discuss the point that her father was feeling unhappy because the public doubted his tip. Police were happy to talk with her for as long as she needed and one thing that she posted, referring to police, is that the times may not be exact.

 

[otto]

He is a witness.

I don't understand the sarcasm?

He isn't a witness. The comments that he made to the media are excluded from police statements.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I have never though the family was involved. I just think if they were this case would of been solved along time ago. Why, because they are not that savy, again jmo.

I know your theory.:innocent::silenced:

I was just asking if some locals might believe a family member or someone in his/her/their circle of friends was involved in the abduction and murders of the girls. If anyone thinks this terrible crime was committed by someone within the family or their circle of friends, perhaps they aren't worried that the killer will strike again.

I'm definitely not saying this is what happened, I was just kind of following up on your prior post with a random thought.

 

[threecrazykids]

Police have said that the children were seen at 12:15 on Brovan. There is information that they were on Brovan at 12:23, meaning (most likely) a tip. 12:15 most likely refers to the video, and it probably makes no difference to anyone whether it was 12:11, 12:15, or 12:19.

If 12:23 is the video, what is 12:15?

I don't have time to post the links again ... but they are easily found on google. It is a fact that police have provided two times: 12:15 and 12:23, not one.

12:15 is Grandma's last sighting, remember? :waitasec:

I wanted to believe 12:23 was a tip as well, until Grandma's sighting was 12:15. I then came to the conclusion that 12:23 then became the official video time. IMO only of course, since LE isn't using the timestamp of the video as any of their given times.