IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[song22]

It was George Wyeth Lake/Park, and Otto would be the go to map guy for that

really? I know they went swimming there, but I thought it was near someone's house in a neighborhood in waterloo when they went to a park or somethng and then came back just as smeone was calling the police? That was george wyeth lake?

 

[tlcya]

In answer to Snowbunny, I always thought LE was looking for the white van because it was seen on video surveillance on a route thought it likely that the girls traveled.

If I remember right at the time the girls went missing there were a spate of child luring incidents reported and several featured someone in a white van.

I have always wondered if the search for and subsequent location of the the white van stemmed from hysteria around those other incidents and their proximity geographically and time wise to our case.

 

[otto]

Is that the 8 minute time gap in the tape...? 12:15 and 12:23??

July 26, 2012

Abben says that the children just "zoom" past the camera, so that suggests to me that the footage that was released to the public was slow motion.

"Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case.

However, Pahl said the camera’s clock is eight minutes slower than his U.S. Cellular phone."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[otto]

What is A and D on the map? Thanks!

The letters relate to George Wyth bird sanctuary and George Wyth cross country ski trails.

 

[alliemay]

Early 30's.

Yes I was thinking between 30-40...and thinking your are right that he doesn't live in Evansdale. Is it possible he has worked there though, at some time?

 

[otto]

In answer to Snowbunny, I always thought LE was looking for the white van because it was seen on video surveillence on a rout thougt it likely that the girls travelled.

If I remember right at the time the girls went missing there were a spate of child luring incidents reported and several featured someone in a white van.

I have always wondered if the search for and subsequent location of the the white van stemmed from hysteria around those other incidents and their proximity geographically and time wise to our case.

Referencing your first point, that was my guess as well. I assumed that police saw a white van on video at about the same time that the children were seen on video, so they checked other video surveillance in Evansdale and learned about the white van at Casey's (filling up with gas) just West of the lake. That was a dead-end lead. Since that time, it sounds like tips came in placing the cycling children close to Meyers Lake and that there were no other sightings of a white van in the area ... at least not that we've heard about.

 

[cindersoot]

If it is someone 'in the area' (vs out of State) then as time goes on maybe
something will happen, traffic stop, wrong turn, traffic light infraction ... or
get caught in another abduction!

I don't know what that will do unless they have DNA to see if they match. If they have DNA. I guess fingerprints also.

 

[alliemay]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ge...cle_5a6d4ff8-ab2a-11e1-aac5-0019bb2963f4.html

The beach at George Wyth Lake just opened up again in May of 2012. Looking for an actual article of when Lyric and her older cousin were there, until I find it thought I'd post this.

 

[otto]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ge...cle_5a6d4ff8-ab2a-11e1-aac5-0019bb2963f4.html

The beach at George Wyth Lake just opened up again in May of 2012. Looking for an actual article of when Lyric and her older cousin were there, until I find it thought I'd post this.

Earlier discussion (December) was that Lyric and her cousin were at Greenbrier Park.

 

[otto]

This is a map I put together a while ago. I think the discussion was that Lyric and her cousin were at Greenbrier Park, which is close to George Wyth Park.

 

[cindersoot]

Otto can you put together a map with a straight road from Seven Bridges park south, all the way just past interstate 20. I want to see what town it runs into. Thanks.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Based on the new timeline information that police released in September (posted upthread) and the statement from the lawn watering man, I think that the girls did cycle to the lake area. Mr Carpenter, on Lake Avenue, said that Elizabeth and friends regularly cycled to the end of his road (bordering Arbutus) turned around and came back ... went home. He said that he recognized Elizabeth as a friendly, talkative girl cycling past his house (while he was watering the lawn) on July 13 shortly after noon. It sounds like Elizabeth and Lyric may have ridden to the South end of Lake Avenue - which is along Arbutus right near Maiden Lane, and vanished around 1:00-1:15 PM.

The next sighting of their bikes, with the girls missing, seems to be at 2:00 PM where the bikes are at the gate and children were no where to be seen.

The last seen per Abben is 12.15, period.

Grandma hit the road searching at 12.30

If the girls were biking around town, or if it took them over an hour to be abducted at the lake, why didn't grandma find them when she went searching at 12.30?

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't know what that will do unless they have DNA to see if they match. If they have DNA. I guess fingerprints also.

My guess is they have NOTHING, DNA/fingerprint wise.

Either nothing at all, or something that is explainable, for example prints of family members on the bikes perhaps.

Bear in mind (and contrast to Jessica Ridgeway) LE have never, ever warned the community of a predator.

All of the information they have they won't share, because it may jeopardise the investigation.

This to me is tantamount to saying "we have a suspect/s, we just can't prove it".

:cow:

 

[alliemay]

The last seen per Abben is 12.15, period.

Grandma hit the road searching at 12.30

If the girls were biking around town, or if it took them over an hour to be abducted at the lake, why didn't grandma find them when she went searching at 12.30?

At 12:30, did they search other area's first and then go to the lake, did they search the lake first I can't remember?

 

[SapphireSteel]

For those that think we have a "hunter"...

Can you shed any light on how he managed to be lying in wait for them at the lake?

If he is hunting, he is following. No one has a clue where 2 little girls will zoom off next.

A vehicle was used for this abduction, clearly. How did he know where to park, ahead of time? How did he know the girls would be on that track at that time?

 

[SapphireSteel]

At 12:30, did they search other area's first and then go to the lake, did they search the lake first I can't remember?

And this day, they just didn`t come back. And so Kelly (ph), Elizabeth`s brother, he`s 12 -- I hopped in my car because the dad came home, and I went searching Elk Run. We were down by Meyers Lake. We drove all over every little park and Evansdale, Elk Run, every mentionable place, downtown area. And we couldn`t find nobody.

Gramma on NG.


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

 

[cindersoot]

My guess is they have NOTHING, DNA/fingerprint wise.

Either nothing at all, or something that is explainable, for example prints of family members on the bikes perhaps.

Bear in mind (and contrast to Jessica Ridgeway) LE have never, ever warned the community of a predator.

All of the information they have they won't share, because it may jeopardise the investigation.

This to me is tantamount to saying "we have a suspect/s, we just can't prove it".

:cow:

I also hope they might have fibers. So you believe they have a suspect? I do.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Is that the 8 minute time gap in the tape...? 12:15 and 12:23??

Hahah I said way back in July this is the Case of The 8 Minutes just because that timing keeps cropping up.

Mr P originally said "eight minutes" and he was talking about the girls getting from Brovan to the Lake in 8 minutes. Coincidentally 8 minutes is also how late the time stamp on the cctv allegedly was compared to his satellite phone.

I don't believe the 12.23 on Brovan is accurate, personally. It's not sourced, it's only ever mentioned as "we have information" and the "last seen" time per the cctv is officially 12.15.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I also hope they might have fibers. So you believe they have a suspect? I do.

Always have cinder and right from the beginning.

I haven't learnt one thing that has budged me from my original theory...in fact everything released since supports it.

Call it "blinkered" or call it the years spent in investigations in my career, but I know a snake when I see a snake.

 

[cindersoot]

Always have cinder and right from the beginning.

I haven't learnt one thing that has budged me from my original theory...in fact everything released since supports it.

Call it "blinkered" or call it the years spent in investigations in my career, but I know a snake when I see a snake.

You sound like me. This case is on my mind every second of the day. At night before I fall asleep it's on my mind. I run scenerios thru my head over and over. I feel so strong about my theory that it's so hard to try a different theory.