IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #30

[threecrazykids]

I cannot find any info on the tree farm @ 7 Bridges. Does that mean it is no longer a producing/usable tree farm?

The tree farm isn't associated with Seven Bridges, it just bumps up against the property. In my first video you see me drive past the park down to the dead end which is the tree farm.

It's owned by Mould's but I believe it might be the Wapsi Pine's Tree Farm?

http://www.kwwl.com/story/20180258/2012/11/25/droughts-impact-on-christmas-tree-farms

Looks like maybe 2 generations of tree farming/nursery/landscaping? The tree farm is what backs up to Seven Bridges. The other business (son, possibly?) looks to be in Cedar Falls and does snow removal, landscaping, etc.

http://wapsiepines.com/

http://www.wapsiepinestreefarm.com/page6.html

 

[otto]

otto, I feel like you are talking down to those of use who do not believe the same things you do. I hope I am wrong in that feeling.

I never said the girls were kidnapped by a family member, I said the girls went willingly with someone they trusted - could be a family friend, church member, even someone from the neighborhood they knew. This "non-familial person", as you call it, does not have to be a stranger IMO.

Yes, the girls were abducted (even though they didn't, IMO, know they were being abducted), but there didn't necessarily have to be violence involved at the beginning. JMO.

I am a reasoning adult who has the right to interpret things in my own way. I am not trying to sugar coat anything, or pretend the girls were treated in a gentle manner at all times. Because I feel the girls went willingly with an adult they trusted, I feel it's completely possible the girls were abducted and transported to 7 Bridges without violence. JMO.

Please stop that feeling. I am not talking down to anyone. I am trying to understand what happened to these two children and supporting the efforts to restore Meyers Lake Island as a memorial.

It may seem like "talking down" when I state that abduction and murder of two young children is not a field trip to the 20 mile away deserted park. Every child is asking "how much farther" on a 20 mile trip, not just abducted children.

It's my perspective that we would have to severely under-estimate that these children realized how serious the siuation was prior to their murder. I think that these two children immediately understood that they were in trouble when they were parted from their bicycles and placed inside a vehicle that was quickly exiting the vicinity ... for another 20 miles.

If that seems like "talking down", I apologize. It is not my intention to "talk down". I merely want to ensure we're not painting this double murder of two children with a "Disneyland" brush.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I am not sure what exactly each business does. Does the tree farm grow trees for the public to come and buy for their yard, for Christmas tree sales, for commercial yard care businesses, or a combination of all three?

What does the public do if they want a tree, and need someone to make a hole and plant that tree in their yard?

I know Drew trims and cuts down trees, but does he also plant trees in client's yards? I wonder if a client wants a certain tree for their yard, can they employ him to go and get a tree from a tree farm, have a hole dug in their yard, then he brings in and plants the tree for them?

If Drew does this, I wonder if he gets his trees from the tree farm near where the girls' bodies were found? Are there any other tree farms in the area?

Here is the link to Drew's website:

http://www.planetarytree.com/standard.html

The website doesn't mention anything about obtaining and planting trees. It appears he mainly does trimming/removal of trees and brush clearing.

 

[cindersoot]

Maybe that's a hint that they know who did this and are close to an arrest...hope so.

I so hope thats true.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Please stop that feeling. I am not talking down to anyone. I am trying to understand what happened to these two children and supporting the efforts to restore Meyers Lake Island as a memorial.

It may seem like "talking down" when I state that abduction and murder of two young children is not a field trip to the 20 mile away deserted park. Every child is asking "how much farther" on a 20 mile trip, not just abducted children.

It's my perspective that we would have to severely under-estimate that these children realized how serious the siuation was prior to their murder. I think that these two children immediately understood that they were in trouble when they were parted from their bicycles and placed inside a vehicle that was quickly exiting the vicinity ... for another 20 miles.

If that seems like "talking down", I apologize. It is not my intention to "talk down". I merely want to ensure we're not painting this double murder of two children with a "Disneyland" brush.

Thanks for the clarification. I agree that there is nothing remotely Disney-like about what happened to these girls.

And I truly understand your viewpoint. If the girls were abducted by a stranger, then I imagine they were quickly subdued in some manner before they were whisked away.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Has anyone read the latest from Sheriff Adden about talking to your kids about stranger danger? He says not to be afraid to let your kids play outside, and that there is nothing to be afraid of. What a joke, kinda makes me mad because we have a killer on the loose.

This type of statement is hard to figure out, IMO. Does it mean what happened to Lyric and Lizzie won't happen again because they know who did it and that person is under surveillance or in jail?

Or does it simply mean, let kids be kids but just keep a closer eye on them?

I think I'll go back and read that statement again.

 

[BunnyHop]

I keep thinking the perp(s) somehow "blended in" to the remote and secluded areas of the abduction site (Maiden Lane) and the final resting place (Seven Bridges). To not draw attention or be seen, heard, or considered suspicious in both locations and to remain elusive for this length causes me to feel like their presence would not have alarmed anyone or be considered abnormal or unexpected if they were seen. With reports of both locations being locked or protected by gates, someone would have had access to those areas and felt comfortable enough in the surroundings to not alert anyone to something being amiss. Who or what kind of person could this be?

This was either a well-planned and executed abduction or it was done by someone who had a reason or excuse for being in both locations, and felt very confident that they weren't going to be suspicious if noticed.

BBM I am wondering if those gates are locked throughout the year. Perhaps they are not, just speculating. I can't make that assumption.

Was the gate locked at Maiden Lane? Was it ever open? There was a poster here early on that lived in the neighborhood who gave good input. Anyone remember?

 

[BunnyHop]

I have been letting the tree farm connection simmer around in my brain as well.

The tree farm and Drew's business would be a direct conflict, wouldn't they?

A conflict or a connection?

 

[BunnyHop]

I am not sure what exactly each business does. Does the tree farm grow trees for the public to come and buy for their yard, for Christmas tree sales, for commercial yard care businesses, or a combination of all three?

What does the public do if they want a tree, and need someone to make a hole and plant that tree in their yard?

I know Drew trims and cuts down trees, but does he also plant trees in client's yards? I wonder if a client wants a certain tree for their yard, can they employ him to go and get a tree from a tree farm, have a hole dug in their yard, then he brings in and plants the tree for them?

If Drew does this, I wonder if he gets his trees from the tree farm near where the girls' bodies were found? Are there any other tree farms in the area?

I would like to know more about this tree farm. In my horticultural experience, "tree farms" sell to landscapers and nurseries.

 

[Bootsctr]

Thank you so much for taking these videos for us! Kudos to your husband also!

It sure makes me quite curious about the tree farm and a few other things. I do feel that the girls lives were taken at Seven Bridges.

Again, thank you so much for doing this. :rocker::seeya:

I'm curious about the tree farm too! Is it a Christmas Tree Farm? If so, the owners probably hired seasonal workers. Trimming the trees and then the weeks before Christmas to cut your hand-picked tree. Am I barking up the wrong tree? :beagle:

 

[Bootsctr]

Sleuthers:
What is your opinion as to why no other kidnappings and/or child murders have not occurred in this area since the girls horrible event? Where is the killer??
A. the perp(s) left the area
B. they are "laying low" because this crime became so high profile
C. it was personal against someone in the family
D. they are currently in jail or prison facing other charges (does LE know, suspect or not suspect them??)
E. other reason (maybe on drugs?, "new" sex offender??)

I personally do not know what to think about the motive and why they have not committed another crime. Of course I pray they do not, but what really concerns me, is that the potential is there if they are still "out there" and no arrest(s).

I have to go with A - left the area because LE was questioning him. B - laying low is my second choice. Wishing it was D, but have no clue.

 

[NWLady]

Jumping off your post FoxyLady :flashbacka little Jimmy Hendrix running through my brain), if our two :hero: :detective: :detective: do venture back to 7-Bridges, be careful! You definitely have allowed us to be at the scene up close and personal!

I thought it was interesting that the wreaths that were placed there were not facing the path as you come into the area where the bodies were found. From 3ck's video #5 ? I believe, the wreaths were placed away from the trail that you walked into the area, facing the water. Need to watch it again. Makes me wonder if that is how the girls were found, heads facing the direction of the wreaths? I wonder if the girls were posed. Probably not since the killer wanted to get away ASAP. But I do wonder if they were found face up, face down, were they bound? Morbid, I know, but would there be any significace in how they were placed when found. It is possible the girls were killed at Maiden Lane, but I don't think so. He got them and took them straight away to 7-Bridges. I think he was back in town before dusk. He probably never dreamed there would be an airplane and helicopter in the air for the search that same day though. Or maybe he did. . .

Good points, Boots!
I wonder if another possibility is that maybe the girls got ahead of or away from the perp(s) somehow at 7 Bridges because they were scared and took off running and then once they got to the river bank there and saw the river then they realized they had no where else to go.
I also do really wonder about the tree farm. I realize the bodies were on public grounds/7 Bridges but surrounded by private land. Wonder who lives in the immediate area?

 

[Reverie]

Just going backwards to review the posts.
3CK and Cinder, thanks so much for your videos and pics!!!!
Very well done. As we grow, we learn many things, I'll bet you are now well versed in posting videos. Thanks again for your determination. :rocker:

I have a few questions:

1. Deer cams; I now nothing about them. Wondering how they are monitored, and how long they record. Is there a time span? Do they "expire"?

2. I see discussion re: public vs private land. What is the significance?

3. Tree Farm; very interesting.

4. As an avid nature lover, I take my binoculars everywhere. It's goose nesting time here, they are pairing off. Broods to be seen soon. Hummingbirds in my yard in summer, can't wait. Ducky babies on the lake. Hawks galore and the occasional Bald Eagle. Many swans here as well, don't mess with them, they can be very aggressive.


One September night last year, windows open I heard a very strange call in the wild. I listened in awe.
I discovered it was a loon, migrating on my lake. Something I will always remember.


Voices: Common Loon - YouTube

Bunnyhop, as far as public vs private land at seven bridges, I was not trying to annoy anyone :blushing::seeya: I had two reasons for ring so tenacious.
1. Yahoo maps showed the girls' site found to be further east of park borders, which GREATLY confused me.

2.IF the site was on/near private land this would create more stealth routes for a perp to utilize without the risk of being seen.

TY for compiling such great questions!

 

[Marilynilpa]

I wish we knew what the hunters saw when they discovered the remains. That would answer so many questions IMO.

 

[Bootsctr]

The tree farm isn't associated with Seven Bridges, it just bumps up against the property. In my first video you see me drive past the park down to the dead end which is the tree farm.

It's owned by Mould's but I believe it might be the Wapsi Pine's Tree Farm?

http://www.kwwl.com/story/20180258/2012/11/25/droughts-impact-on-christmas-tree-farms

Looks like maybe 2 generations of tree farming/nursery/landscaping? The tree farm is what backs up to Seven Bridges. The other business (son, possibly?) looks to be in Cedar Falls and does snow removal, landscaping, etc.

http://wapsiepines.com/

http://www.wapsiepinestreefarm.com/page6.html

:noooo: anic: This is just giving me the willies!

 

[janie]

I don't know about that either.

Heather and Drew had custody of Lyric for a long time. It is quite possible Heather bought Lyric's shoes herself imo...

I think the lack of commenting on Lyric stems from the family estrangement, not necessarily a lack of knowledge.

Also, apparently Kent Smock is a close personal friend, I can't imagine he didn't inform them about Lyric as well knowing the parental relationship they had with her.

Of course :moo:

I believe the entire family was notified together at the same time after getting a call to come somewhere. I can't remember if it was the school, the station, or where, but I believe it was a group gathering for the news.

 

[Bootsctr]

BBM I am wondering if those gates are locked throughout the year. Perhaps they are not, just speculating. I can't make that assumption.

Was the gate locked at Maiden Lane? Was it ever open? There was a poster here early on that lived in the neighborhood who gave good input. Anyone remember?

I believe that would have been Ollipop. He said the gate was not locked at Maiden Lane, IIRC. Can't remember if he said the gate was sometimes left open.

 

[RNER]

Sleuthers:
What is your opinion as to why no other kidnappings and/or child murders have not occurred in this area since the girls horrible event? Where is the killer??
A. the perp(s) left the area
B. they are "laying low" because this crime became so high profile
C. it was personal against someone in the family
D. they are currently in jail or prison facing other charges (does LE know, suspect or not suspect them??)
E. other reason (maybe on drugs?, "new" sex offender??)

I personally do not know what to think about the motive and why they have not committed another crime. Of course I pray they do not, but what really concerns me, is that the potential is there if they are still "out there" and no arrest(s).

Great question!
From day 1...C and later I would add D.
I feel really biased answering this, because I have a perp and motive in mind, and I am just waiting for him or affiliates to appear on "in jail" records for charges that indicate involvement with this.

I believe LE knows the motive as well as who did this, but can't prove it beyond reasonable doubt, can't locate the perp(s), or already have them locked up for something else. I feel someone in the family was targeted, therefore no fear of others in community being in danger.

These recent wonderful videos and ideas from other sleuthers really open my mind to other possibilities and people though!

 

[carbuff]

Sleuthers:
What is your opinion as to why no other kidnappings and/or child murders have not occurred in this area since the girls horrible event? Where is the killer??
A. the perp(s) left the area
B. they are "laying low" because this crime became so high profile
C. it was personal against someone in the family
D. they are currently in jail or prison facing other charges (does LE know, suspect or not suspect them??)
E. other reason (maybe on drugs?, "new" sex offender??)

I personally do not know what to think about the motive and why they have not committed another crime. Of course I pray they do not, but what really concerns me, is that the potential is there if they are still "out there" and no arrest(s).

I'd say somewhere between C and E -- I think someone connected to the family (and I do NOT mean the parents!) killed them for some advantage (financial, emotional, something).

If it's a sexual kill or thrill kill, I think it's a young offender who hasn't killed before

 

[threecrazykids]

I wish we knew what the hunters saw when they discovered the remains. That would answer so many questions IMO.

Yepper! :rocker:

Ok, let me ask THIS question:

What is more important to LE between the time a crime is committed and an arrest?:

Figuring out who the perp is and getting the criminal behind bars, therefor ensuring public safety?
or
Protecting the investigation so it is "foolproof" and making sure there is no way for any evidence, witnesses etc., to be "compromised" and doing everything to ensure not only an arrest, but also conviction?

I hope I am explaining my question properly.

Basically I want to know what's the most critical for LE. Figuring out who did this and making an arrest (even though some evidence could be circumstantial, or may not be admitted in court for whatever reason) OR, is their main concern making sure that even though it may take more time, they'd keep things closer to the vest to make sure that even though it could take 5 years to get that arrest, they have every single piece of evidence fool proof to ensure a conviction?

:waitasec:

Do they have info that they COULD release that would possibly lead them to the killer? Maybe that piece of evidence could possibly lead to something in court that could be thrown out on a technicality etc, that they aren't willing to compromise, even if it means taking longer to make the arrest.