IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #30

[otto]

That's a really good question, and I wish I knew the answer.

DNA tests can take months. It's possible that the remains were withheld until DNA tests confirmed that the remains belonged to the children.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

DNA tests can take months. It's possible that the remains were withheld until DNA tests confirmed that the remains belonged to the children.

Couldn't the family identify the bodies? Unless they were in really bad condition. But I still feel like LE holding the body of a murder victim for five months is highly unusual.

 

[otto]

Couldn't the family identify the bodies? Unless they were in really bad condition. But I still feel like LE holding the body of a murder victim for five months is highly unusual.

I'm of the opinion that the murders occurred on the day of the abduction, and that decomposition would have mostly skeletonized the remains. That is, I don't think that it was possible to perform a visual identification. I also think that, given the nature of the deaths, DNA tests would be necessary to completely confirm the identify of the remains.

 

[SapphireSteel]

They held Daniel Morcombe's body for over a year.

The State Coroner Michael Barnes today ordered the bones be given to his grieving parents after the man accused of killing the teenager provided a written statement saying he did not require them for his defence.

The bone fragments found at a Sunshine Coast crime scene last year will be released tomorrow to funeral directors acting on behalf of the family.

The Morcombes, who have been privately agitating for the return of their son, were told of the news today outside the committal hearing of Brett Peter Cowan, who has pleaded not guilty to their son's murder.


Earlier today, before the coroner's announcement, Bruce Morcombe said it was time for everyone involved to sign off on releasing his son's remains.

"Daniel's remains were discovered 467 days ago," he said.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...morcombes-murder/story-e6freoof-1226526119981

 

[cindersoot]

I need your help. I found my usb cable, and have been trying for hrs now to get my pictures from my phone to my pc, I can't? UGH help.

 

[BunnyHop]

Regarding the 3D park model renderings, I think I need to post a note about copyright. At this time, while we're still trying to better understand exactly what is being done regarding the memorial for the girls, I would prefer that the renderings posted here remain here. That is, if anyone is inclined to copy the renderings for the purpose of posting them elsewhere, please contact me first.
Cheers

Can you embed that on the images? Just in case?

 

[Bootsctr]

It looks like the state held the remains of Lori Duncan, her daughters, Amber and Kandi, and boyfriend Nicholson for four years before they were allowed to be buried.

Oct. 13, 2000 - The remains of Lori Duncan, her daughters, Amber and Kandi, and Greg Nicholson are discovered buried in a wooded area just off Cerro Gordo County Road S34 west of Mason City.

Nov. 8, 2000 - The body of DeGeus is discovered in a farm field one mile west of Burchinal. The state medical examiner determined all five people died of gunshot wounds.

July and August 2001 - Indictments charging Honken and Johnson with murder are issued. The federal murder charges qualify them for the death penalty.

Oct. 9, 2002 - Dustin Honken pleads innocent to charges of murder.

April 24, 2002 - U.S. District Judge Mark Bennett rules that any evidence found as a result of jailhouse notes from Robert McNeese inadmissible in the case against Johnson.

Feb. 13, 2003 - Federal prosecutors argue in an appeal that Robert McNeese was not a government agent when obtaining the two locations of the five murdered victims.

Feb. 18, 2003 - A federal judge denies a request to release the remains of the five victims, ruling the bodies are key evidence in the on-going cases.

David and Marge Milbrath, far right, stand at the graveside services for their daughter, Lori Duncan and
two granddaughters Kandie and Amber Duncan, in Mason City, Iowa, on Saturday, July 10, 2004.
(AP Photo/The Mason City Globe Gazette, Arian Schuessler)

A makeshift memorial has been in place along County Road S34, west of Mason City, since the remains of
Greg Nicholson, Lori Duncan, Amber Duncan and Kandace Duncan were found in October, of 2000 near this spot.
(Jeff Heinz/The Globe Gazette)

 

[B4igo2it]

View attachment 31695 Here is a pic of the river at seven bridges. 4/7/2013. Please be patient with me I went to us cellular and they said some of the pics on my phone are to large to send so I have to find my usb cable to download to my pc. I will find that cable, or I will buy a new one.

is my imagination really running wild here? Looking at your photo and wonder what is that lurking near the bank? Click on the picture and then click again to enlarge it. I drew a circle around it. I do not know how to make it bigger here ... I am not a techie :facepalm:

 

[B4igo2it]

you need the assistance of Cranky/AmandaReckonwith .... the ones that have all the photos of the case. What they can do with photos is amazing!

 

[cindersoot]

is my imagination really running wild here? Looking at your photo and wonder what is that lurking near the bank?

What do you see?

 

[BunnyHop]

is my imagination really running wild here? Looking at your photo and wonder what is that lurking near the bank?

looks like a deer

 

[nikb]

I'm of the opinion that the murders occurred on the day of the abduction, and that decomposition would have mostly skeletonized the remains. That is, I don't think that it was possible to perform a visual identification. I also think that, given the nature of the deaths, DNA tests would be necessary to completely confirm the identify of the remains.

Agreed Otto. IIRC Heather said she ID'd the girls' shoes, which I'm assuming was enough for the families (and LE for that matter) to feel pretty confident that the girls had been found, but not enough to ID them 100%. I'm also assuming that they probably... ugh I hate this thought...weren't very recognizable, or I would think we'd have heard about the families seeing and positively ID'ing them.

 

[nikb]

is my imagination really running wild here? Looking at your photo and wonder what is that lurking near the bank?

What is it that you think you're seeing? Just curious.

I looked at it, blew it up, changed the brightness and contrast around etc. and I really think it's just part of a tree and branches. I can definitely see why you might think it's some kind of animal though. It reminds me of looking at clouds and seeing various things if that makes any sense. That said it kind of looks like a small mountain lion to me, but I think it'd be extremely rare to see one just hanging out while people are walking around. Hopefully Cinder can tell us for sure.

ETA Cinder I just saw that you asked the same question I did, so I'll take it that you don't recall seeing any mysterious critters, but I'm definitely curious now. Also wanted to add thank you for posting the pics!

 

[janie]

Agreed Otto. IIRC Heather said she ID'd the girls' shoes, which I'm assuming was enough for the families (and LE for that matter) to feel pretty confident that the girls had been found, but not enough to ID them 100%. I'm also assuming that they probably... ugh I hate this thought...weren't very recognizable, or I would think we'd have heard about the families seeing and positively ID'ing them.

I can certainly understand wanting to take the last step of burying the remains at graveside since they didn't have the remains at the time of the celebration of life. It's going to be really rough, I would imagine.

 

[janie]

wait a MINUTE: This group has promoted Saving Able as their lead band performance from the very beginning but it wasn't until YESTERDAY that they actually committed to it. SMH
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Concert-for-the-Angels/134193863421953?fref=ts

SAVING ABEL WILL BE AT THE CONCERT FOR THE ANGELS!!!!!
Their Sturgis Falls performance was canceled. Jared(Singer) and his wife are "expecting" around the time of that show and so they cannot commit at this time. BUT THEY WILL BE PERFORMING AT THE CONCERT FOR THE ANGELS!!!!!

I didn't have time to research this earlier, but I found this on Saving Abel's Facebook page for the group. They committed to the concert for the girls at a minimum by March 6th:


March 6
We are extremely happy to be a part of this!! Every dollar raised goes to a beautiful memorial!

https://www.facebook.com/savingabel

https://www.facebook.com/events/553469538016937/

 

[nikb]

I can certainly understand wanting to take the last step of burying the remains at graveside since they didn't have the remains at the time of the celebration of life. It's going to be really rough, I would imagine.

Yes, completely agree with you. I thought this was the plan from the beginning. They didn't want to wait to do her celebration of life, and especially now realizing how long it took to get her remains back I can totally understand why they wouldn't have wanted to wait.

I am curious what they're doing/have done for Lyric. I know the family said she was going to be cremated but has she had a funeral, or memorial/celebration of life, etc.? I hope so and that they just chose not to make it as open/public.

 

[janie]

Yes, completely agree with you. I thought this was the plan from the beginning. They didn't want to wait to do her celebration of life, and especially now realizing how long it took to get her remains back I can totally understand why they wouldn't have wanted to wait.

I am curious what they're doing/have done for Lyric. I know the family said she was going to be cremated but has she had a funeral, or memorial/celebration of life, etc.? I hope so and that they just chose not to make it as open/public.

Lyric had a celebration. It wasn't closed to the public but it was closed to media:

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...neral-saturday-we-ll-respect-family-s-privacy

Edited to add, yes, I do believe that was the Collin's family plan from the beginning, to have interment at a later date when the remains were released.

 

[Snowbunny]

Otto thank you for all of your renderings. You do an excellent job. Do we know how elaborate they are planning to make these gazebos? Maybe they will just be like small pavilions of sorts. Basically just a frame with a roof. I think its sad to waste good money for a park of this magnitude when they could be using this money to find out who did this by hiring a PI. Personally I think they've ruined this little island cutting down all the trees. I think I would rather see one large gazebo or pavilion with some picnic tables where people could have family reunions at or picnics and flower gardens.

 

[nikb]

Lyric had a celebration. It wasn't closed to the public but it was closed to media:

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...neral-saturday-we-ll-respect-family-s-privacy

Ah thank you!! I missed that somehow, but I've been away from this thread for awhile. I'm really glad to hear there was something for her too.

 

[foxbluff]

For the 1st time ever, I actually fell asleep w/my PC tuned into the www... here at my keybrd on p.19 of ws...

My fondest wish at this moment, is that when I come back here tomorrow (and move on to the current p.20), that I will find my peeps here addressing why one would encounter a gate at 7bridges... ????