IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #30

[Arod]

If Elizabeth was going on a fun adventure in a stranger's vehicle, why was her purse found near the water's edge?

I think this is where the perp told the girls to meet them. when he pulled up the girls ran up to the car and jumped in. As little kids will do, or grown-ups for that matter she completely forgot about that purse and cell phone in all the excitement and left them there.

 

[threecrazykids]

What details do you think are available that have not been released? How would the release of those details advance the investigation without compromising the integrity of the investigation?

Whether there was a sexual assault or not.

I don't know how releasing that would compromise the investigation. Simple yes or no would suffice. No details, just yes or no.

If people think that releasing YES they were sexually assaulted or NO they were not (or even "we can't determine if they were or not"), how would that compromise the investigation?

Leave the PR out of it, and what do you have left?

 

[cindersoot]

What organization does the initials EPI stand for? Was reading the girls face book pages, the first one that was created before they were found I think, and the person that created it spoke of a man who tried to get her boys to get in his car. He was a former worker for this organization. My computer freezes up when I try to read articles from the main newspaper there.

There are two organizations that I'm aware of. EPI stands for exceptional persons incorporated, a non profit charitable organization supporting individuals with disablilites and families with child care needs.

EPI, environmental professionals of Iowa, an organization that promotes education and standards of conduct and performance in the environmental field.

 

[otto]

Whether there was a sexual assault or not.

I don't know how releasing that would compromise the investigation. Simple yes or no would suffice. No details, just yes or no.

If people think that releasing YES they were sexually assaulted or NO they were not (or even "we can't determine if they were or not"), how would that compromise the investigation?

Leave the PR out of it, and what do you have left?

How would releasing information about whether there was a sexual assault (assuming that could be determined given the condition of the remains) advance the investigation?

 

[cindersoot]

The purse was said to be just sat down. I think the girls went to the waters edge thru the gate waiting for their perp friend to show up. The purse left by mistake.

 

[otto]

The purse was said to be just sat down. I think the girls went to the waters edge thru the gate waiting for their perp friend to show up. The purse left by mistake.

The purse was found on the ground 10 feet East of the gate on the lake side of the fence. I'm of the opinion that these children, like other children that are abducted and murdered, did not deliberately leave the purse behind and did not think that they were going to have a fun adventure with a stranger.

 

[cindersoot]

I still can't see this no matter how hard I try.

I'm picturing a farmer on a quad bike with a couple of carcasses. Those things are HEAVY, no matter how small they are, and take a bit of shifting. He is going to stop the bike before he takes a carcass off it.

Quad bikes take two hands to steer so it would be virtually impossible to heave a dead weight off while travelling at any speed, by hand. I suppose you could kick it off but then you may steer into a tree or something and you'd have to be a yoga expert to get your leg back far enough, all while driving along.

Add the thick undergrowth and woods into the equation and I would say it would be virtually impossible for the bodies to have been pushed off a quad bike that way.

The only thing that really makes any sense (to me at least) is the girls walking in there under their own steam.

:cow:

I will find out this summer, but I don't think the under growth is that thick in the area. To me what is there now is long dried grass.

 

[threecrazykids]

How would releasing information about whether there was a sexual assault (assuming that could be determined given the condition of the remains) advance the investigation?

Possibly the "mystery person" who has the "one little piece of info" that LE continually speaks of, would come forward if this person DID sexually assaulted these two girls. Maybe it's enough to push that button that causes them to make the call.

Maybe not. Maybe this person won't come forward under any circumstances since it's been 9 months.

I was referring more to what wouldn't compromise the investigation than what would advance it.

At what point does protecting the "integrity" of an investigation become more important than making an arrest when even though all the dots may not connect in a foolproof manner, they have to bite the bullet and go with what they have?

Are there awards given every year to investigative teams based on the proper handling/processing of the investigation vs. the actual arrest for the crime?

 

[Marilynilpa]

If Elizabeth was going on a fun adventure in a stranger's vehicle, why was her purse found near the water's edge?

otto, you asked me to answer a specific hypothetical question - under what circumstances might the girls get into a "non-familial" vehicle without becoming concerned. I believe I answered your question in my post.

Who knows how the purse came to be there? Maybe Lizzie left it in the vehicle and the killer brought it back and tossed it near the bikes as he/she walked, jogged, biked, hiked the trail before the search at the lake began? I'm not sure, did the 2:00 bike sighter also mention the purse? IIRC, LE only said this witness saw the bikes. So maybe that's what happened.

Or maybe she had it on her handlebars and didn't even know it had slipped off?

Or maybe Lyric grabbed it and tossed it to mess with her cousin, and before Lizzie went to reclaim it, they met up with the perp, Lizzie was excited at the unexpected adventure and forgot the purse.

Or . . . well, I imagine our creative posters can come up with even more possibilities.

I see nothing about Lizzie's purse being left behind that would rule out her leaving willingly with someone she trusted. JMO.

I respect your opinions because you are always very sure of what you believe. Because of that respect, let's agree to disagree about whether or not the girls went willingly. Neither of us will change the other's theory at this point, no matter how much we debate the issues.

 

[threecrazykids]

otto, you asked me to answer a specific hypothetical question - under what circumstances might the girls get into a "non-familial" vehicle without becoming concerned. I believe I answered your question in my post.

Who knows how the purse came to be there? Maybe Lizzie left it in the vehicle and the killer brought it back and tossed it near the bikes as he/she walked, jogged, biked, hiked the trail before the search at the lake began? I'm not sure, did the 2:00 bike sighter also mention the purse? IIRC, LE only said this witness saw the bikes. So maybe that's what happened.

Or maybe she had it on her handlebars and didn't even know it had slipped off?

Or maybe Lyric grabbed it and tossed it to mess with her cousin, and before Lizzie went to reclaim it, they met up with the perp, Lizzie was excited at the unexpected adventure and forgot the purse.

Or . . . well, I imagine our creative posters can come up with even more possibilities.

I see nothing about Lizzie's purse being left behind that would rule out her leaving willingly with someone she trusted. JMO.

I respect your opinions because you are always very sure of what you believe. Because of that respect, let's agree to disagree about whether or not the girls went willingly. Neither of us will change the other's theory at this point, no matter how much we debate the issues.

I'm not sure what I believe at this point...but I wonder about those who feel they were abducted (in the true sense of the word); what makes them believe this? There were no signs of struggle that we were made aware of. LE took a week to even classify it as an abduction, so I wonder if LE even felt that they were in imminent danger.

I have yet to feel a sense of urgency from LE (FBI, County, City, or otherwise). Maybe I'm the only one, but I certainly haven't felt it.

What makes those of you who feel they did NOT go willingly feel that way?

 

[foxbluff]

It's my perspective that we would have to severely under-estimate these children to assume that they did not realize how serious the siuation was prior to their murder.

Can you provide a hypothetical situation where children would get into a non-familial vehicle and where they remain unconcerned during a 20 mile ride into the countryside?

bbm - they were already dead.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Whether there was a sexual assault or not.

I don't know how releasing that would compromise the investigation. Simple yes or no would suffice. No details, just yes or no.

If people think that releasing YES they were sexually assaulted or NO they were not (or even "we can't determine if they were or not"), how would that compromise the investigation?

Leave the PR out of it, and what do you have left?

I don't know about compromising the investigation, but I'm not sure what the release of this info would accomplish other than satisfying our curiosity. JMO.

Not that I would mind having my curiosity satisfied. But if there is any possibility the release of that info might harm the investigation in some way, I think LE is wise to keep it to themselves. JMO.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm not sure what I believe at this point...but I wonder about those who feel they were abducted (in the true sense of the word); what makes them believe this? There were no signs of struggle that we were made aware of. LE took a week to even classify it as an abduction, so I wonder if LE even felt that they were in imminent danger.

I have yet to feel a sense of urgency from LE (FBI, County, City, or otherwise). Maybe I'm the only one, but I certainly haven't felt it.

What makes those of you who feel they did NOT go willingly feel that way?

Thank you for this post - I'd like to hear from those folks too.

 

[threecrazykids]

I don't know about compromising the investigation, but I'm not sure what the release of this info would accomplish other than satisfying our curiosity. JMO.

Not that I would mind having my curiosity satisfied. But if there is any possibility the release of that info might harm the investigation in some way, I think LE is wise to keep it to themselves. JMO.

I don't want them to release anything that would compromise the investigation either. I just don't want to accept the reality that this case may never be solved. That's something I am really struggling to come to grips with.

Knowing these girls were raped prior to their death may or may not cause a person to come forward. Strange as it may sound, this person may think they were killed quickly and didn't suffer (possibly shot) and have somehow stomached it.

But, if they found out they were sexually assaulted they realized there was MUCH more pain and suffering prior to their death than they knew, it would push a button to make them call with any info they may have.

I know the chances are slim...disgustingly slim. I just want SOMETHING to move this forward. Anything.

I haven't closely followed any other cases, so I can't even grasp the concept of "these cases go unsolved all the time".

I guess I just don't feel that "no news is good news" when it comes to this investigation. I feel that the longer the silence falls upon the case, the less chance an arrest is ever going to be made.

I don't know what they could release that won't compromise the investigation, but not having anything that WON'T, scares me even more.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't want them to release anything that would compromise the investigation either. I just don't want to accept the reality that this case may never be solved. That's something I am really struggling to come to grips with.

Knowing these girls were raped prior to their death may or may not cause a person to come forward. Strange as it may sound, this person may think they were killed quickly and didn't suffer (possibly shot) and have somehow stomached it.

But, if they found out they were sexually assaulted they realized there was MUCH more pain and suffering prior to their death than they knew, it would push a button to make them call with any info they may have.

I know the chances are slim...disgustingly slim. I just want SOMETHING to move this forward. Anything.

I haven't closely followed any other cases, so I can't even grasp the concept of "these cases go unsolved all the time".

I guess I just don't feel that "no news is good news" when it comes to this investigation. I feel that the longer the silence falls upon the case, the less chance an arrest is ever going to be made.

I don't know what they could release that won't compromise the investigation, but not having anything that WON'T, scares me even more.

I couldn't have said it better - this is exactly how I feel about it.

 

[georger]

From a December article:

The girls’ aunt, Tammy Brousseau, 48, of Waterloo, said Friday that authorities told family members that the girls died shortly after they disappeared in mid-July.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...054/Evansdale-girls-families-speculate-killer

I believe the girls were dead within a couple of hours of their disappearance. JMO. I don't believe they were held somewhere (alive or dead) before being taken to 7 Bridges.

IMO the perp planned his abduction of the girls very carefully - he knew who he was going to kidnap, where/how he was going to do it, and where he was going to take the girls. I don't think he took the girls to 7 Bridges after dark. I think by the time it got dark on July 13th, the girls were dead and the perp was back in Evansdale, possibly participating in a search for the "missing" girls.

I don't see any part of this horrible crime being random or spontaneous.

All JMO.

This article is excellent imo. It is the clearest statement I have read.

(1) [FONT=&quot]Authorities working on the case are following leads but still have “no person of excessive interest or anything,” Capt. Rick Abben of the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Department said Friday.[/FONT]

(2) [FONT=&quot]People do not need to be paranoid, but they should be vigilant, officials have said.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “We’ve got two girls who for sure were abducted and we have not caught anybody, so I would say there should be heightened awareness,” Abben said.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

conclusion: no need to be concerned, but be scared as hell!

(3) [FONT=&quot]Investigators have refrained from ruling the case a homicide until they receive more information from the state medical examiner’s office on how the girls died.

(4) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The girls’ aunt, Tammy Brousseau, 48, of Waterloo, said Friday that authorities told family members that the girls died shortly after they disappeared in mid-July.


Total gridlock, nobody knows 'nuttin', and no reason to be concerned.

:seeya:

[/FONT]

 

[dotr]

It keeps coming back to the cctv video for me in terms of " something" going wrong.
The scene is off/odd somehow on its' own, imo- why are they racing around that corner on a hot dry day with a cool juice waiting at home, the street looks "lunch-time" deserted and desolate, who might have been behind those buildings?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/missing-iowa-cousins-video_n_1702822.html

 

[threecrazykids]

This article is excellent imo. It is the clearest statement I have read.

(1) [FONT=&quot]Authorities working on the case are following leads but still have “no person of excessive interest or anything,” Capt. Rick Abben of the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Department said Friday.[/FONT]

(2) [FONT=&quot]People do not need to be paranoid, but they should be vigilant, officials have said.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “We’ve got two girls who for sure were abducted and we have not caught anybody, so I would say there should be heightened awareness,” Abben said.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

conclusion: no need to be concerned, but be scared as hell!

(3) [FONT=&quot]Investigators have refrained from ruling the case a homicide until they receive more information from the state medical examiner’s office on how the girls died.

(4) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The girls’ aunt, Tammy Brousseau, 48, of Waterloo, said Friday that authorities told family members that the girls died shortly after they disappeared in mid-July.


Total gridlock, nobody knows 'nuttin', and no reason to be concerned.

:seeya:

[/FONT]

Exactly.

"Folks...there's nothing to see here...so let's just all move on, focus on creating a memorial park, fundraising, and attending the Angel's Concert and quit worrying about whether or not the person who killed these girls is ever held accountable for their actions." :banghead:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I don't want them to release anything that would compromise the investigation either. I just don't want to accept the reality that this case may never be solved. That's something I am really struggling to come to grips with.

Knowing these girls were raped prior to their death may or may not cause a person to come forward. Strange as it may sound, this person may think they were killed quickly and didn't suffer (possibly shot) and have somehow stomached it.

But, if they found out they were sexually assaulted they realized there was MUCH more pain and suffering prior to their death than they knew, it would push a button to make them call with any info they may have.

I know the chances are slim...disgustingly slim. I just want SOMETHING to move this forward. Anything.

I haven't closely followed any other cases, so I can't even grasp the concept of "these cases go unsolved all the time".

I guess I just don't feel that "no news is good news" when it comes to this investigation. I feel that the longer the silence falls upon the case, the less chance an arrest is ever going to be made.

I don't know what they could release that won't compromise the investigation, but not having anything that WON'T, scares me even more.

I don't understand the whole "No news is good news" thing either. Wouldn't that mean that 98% of cases are on the brink of an arrest?

 

[Marilynilpa]

How would releasing information about whether there was a sexual assault (assuming that could be determined given the condition of the remains) advance the investigation?

I don't believe anyone suggested it would advance the investigation. Some have just wondered if it would compromise the investigation. IMO, those are two different things.