IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

[Grainne Dhu]

It also depends on the person.
Personally, i can identify most older vehicles, I have no idea why, but I have the attention to detail.
I have to remind myself some don't.

<LOL> Since I can at best say that a given vehicle is a pickup truck, van, SUV or car, I tend to assume most other people are the same way.

I was looking at car reviews recently and one particular model was criticised several times for looking bland and having outdated style. Cars have style? Who knew?! And why does it matter?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I would think by now LE would now if MK had a white vehicle in July 2012, or they are keeping it to themselves to see if anyone else comes forward about a white vehicle. Also, wouldn't LE know if anyone from Evansdale owns a similar vehicle. Maybe car lots and junk yards may remember if someone traded or got rid of a white SUV?

Does anyone know if Klunder had a history of stealing vehicles? If he stole a vehicle from behind someone's barn and returned it within a day, there's a chance it might not be missed. Most of those vehicles out behind the bar are last resort vehicles, used only when someone has no other choice.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Does anyone know if Klunder had a history of stealing vehicles? If he stole a vehicle from behind someone's barn and returned it within a day, there's a chance it might not be missed. Most of those vehicles out behind the bar are last resort vehicles, used only when someone has no other choice.

Mostly assaults. A burglary charge, but no info. The attached is a timeline of his life. A few facts may not be correct. They say at the end Klunder was found in his truck. The ME said he hung himself. There's a couple more.

http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_b448708a-db89-11e2-bf27-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Foxfire]

Obviously their bodies got there and it was via illegal means.

I may not have been very clear (right now I'm in an extended care/rehab facility and I keep getting interrupted plus I'm still regaining my strength). What I was trying to say was that before Lyric and Elizabeth's remains were found, any LE search of 7 Bridges may have been done keeping the statistic in mind that most predators leave a body within 75 feet of a roadway. Their bodies were found more than 75 feet off the nearest road, so may well have been outside the search perimeter.

I further meant to speculate that due to budget and personnel constraints, LE has to prioritise search areas; Elizabeth and Lyric's remains may well have been quite a way beyond a low priority search area's perimeter. There are less than 9000 households in Bremer County, which isn't a whole lot of people to be supporting a sheriff's department to cover an entire county.

For both reasons, I don't see fault with the Bremer County Sheriff's Department. I'm sure the officers who conducted the original search of 7 Bridges had good intentions and were devastated when they realised how close they had been.

Tangential thought: As for whether Klunder did it, I have no doubt that if he'd been at the scene last 13 July, he would have done it. The question in my mind is whether he was on the scene. And that is a question that may not be easily answered.

Grainne Dhu, I appreciate your reply and honor your opinion....Hope you gain your strength back soon..& best wishes..

Volunteer searchers are free.. Budget concerns do not apply.. The Bremer County sheriff lied when he said the area wasn't searched due to that section of 7 bridges park being inaccessible by vehicle.. As a Public Safety officer for over 25 years, excuses are never an acceptable alternative to results...imo..

 

[dotr]

Obviously their bodies got there and it was via illegal means.

I may not have been very clear (right now I'm in an extended care/rehab facility and I keep getting interrupted plus I'm still regaining my strength). What I was trying to say was that before Lyric and Elizabeth's remains were found, any LE search of 7 Bridges may have been done keeping the statistic in mind that most predators leave a body within 75 feet of a roadway. Their bodies were found more than 75 feet off the nearest road, so may well have been outside the search perimeter.

I further meant to speculate that due to budget and personnel constraints, LE has to prioritise search areas; Elizabeth and Lyric's remains may well have been quite a way beyond a low priority search area's perimeter. There are less than 9000 households in Bremer County, which isn't a whole lot of people to be supporting a sheriff's department to cover an entire county.

For both reasons, I don't see fault with the Bremer County Sheriff's Department. I'm sure the officers who conducted the original search of 7 Bridges had good intentions and were devastated when they realised how close they had been.

Tangential thought: As for whether Klunder did it, I have no doubt that if he'd been at the scene last 13 July, he would have done it. The question in my mind is whether he was on the scene. And that is a question that may not be easily answered.

Rbbm.

Beautifully stated, ita and am delighted to "see" you Grainne Dhu !

 

[Foxfire]

Folks, if you have a four wheel drive vehicle, roads are not a necessity. If you pay attention to the video from the prior post of the visit to the body disposal site, two significant revelations are made about 13 & 14 minutes in...

MISSING NO MORE: Readlyn man hunted near site where Evansdale cousins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oAZWdBFs2LQ

Interview with Mother of Missing Evansdale Girl 07/18/2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MVLy5jx4Wqw

 

[Foxfire]

The primary reason that it is very important for investigators to release a POI or VOI description to the public when a predator strikes via ms media asap, is that the predator will go into the defensive mode. Predators are recidivist. They will repeat, but as long as they are looking over their shoulder, they normally resist the temptation of their deviant behavior.. Their primary concern is survival and evading authorities.

Once they feel they have escaped justice once again, they will become more confident and brazen and begin hunting their next unsuspecting victim/s...

Imo, we have witnessed this tragic progression in the last twelve months...
Silence by investigators is the predators most lethal weapon...

 

[Dr. Know?]

It feels better that a new set of eyes are on finding the truth if that's the situation. It's not the first time E'dale submitted evidence to the FBI crime lab. I hope there's a match somewhere. Call me a dreamer...

UPDATED Friday, July 20, 2012 --- 4:40 p.m.
EVANSDALE, Iowa (AP) -- A law enforcement official says the search for two missing Iowa girls is being classified as an abduction after an FBI team failed to find their bodies in a lake.

Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben told reporters Friday that the case was reclassified after FBI divers were confident the bodies of 10-year-old Lyric Cook-Morrissey and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins are not on the bottom of Meyers Lake in Evansdale.

The cousins disappeared a week ago while riding bikes near the lake.

Abben says investigators have sent evidence to a state crime lab for analysis. He would not elaborate or say what the evidence was.

He says investigators do not believe the girls are lost because they would have been found by now.

Copyright 2012. The Associated Press.

Read more

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/FBI_Dogs_Joining_Search_For_Iowa_Cousins_8_and_10_162705816.html

 

[Dr. Know?]

I believe this was discussed while I was away. There's no way to know what nine cases the lab staffer erred on. smh

State Crime Lab Fires Worker After Noting Errors

Story Created: Jan 10, 2013 at 8:58 PM CDT

(Story Updated: Jan 10, 2013 at 8:58 PM CDT )
DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Iowa public safety officials are tightening oversight at the state police crime lab after firing an employee they said mishandled fingerprint data.

Authorities said a review shows at least nine cases analyzed by the staffer in 2012 contained errors, and in two of those cases the employee missed the opportunity to match the data to a suspect. The department is contacting local authorities impacted by the mistakes and plans to toughen their review process.

http://www.kcrg.com/home/top-9/State-Crime-Lab-Fires-Worker-After-Noting-Errors-186401141.html

UPDATE: Authorities `Confident' Bodies are 2 Iowa Cousins

UPDATED Friday, July 20, 2012 --- 4:40 p.m

Abben says investigators have sent evidence to a state crime lab for analysis. He would not elaborate or say what the evidence was.

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/FBI_Dogs_Joining_Search_For_Iowa_Cousins_8_and_10_162705816.html

 

[BunnyHop]

If you look at pictures of white full size chevy pickups with a white topper on the back, it looks like a large boxy suv, type suburban. JMO

I was thinking the same thing :seeya:

 

[BunnyHop]

Daniel Morrissey has pleaded to charges he continued to manufacture and sell meth after his daughter was abducted and found dead.

snip

On Monday, Morrissey entered a plea agreement that would limit his prison time to 45 years with a 15 year minimum or a possible suspended sentence with probation. He entered guilty pleas to four of the charges and Alford pleas — not admitting guilt but contending he would likely be found guilty of the case went to trial — to two charges.

snip

Sentencing on the drug charges will be at a later date, and the agreement doesn’t bar prosecutors from seeking to run the prison time consecutive with an earlier collection of drug charges that are still pending sentencing.

Those charges stem from incidents in October and December 2011, before the disappearance. With those, he faces up to 235 years with a 57-year mandatory minimum or possible probation.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_99ea3390-dd1e-11e2-83a7-001a4bcf887a.html

BBM

Huh? On the current charges he faces 45 years with a 15 year minimum or a possible suspended sentence with probation. On the older charges he faces up to 235 years and has to serve the mandatory minimum of 57 years, or possible probation? Does that make sense to anyone? Does this mean he could walk away and serve no prison time?

Just catching up, sorry. I had to read this 5 times.
First time, my mind saw it as clear. 57 yr minimum OR possible early probation?
"he faces up to 235 years with a 57-year mandatory minimum or possible probation"

"On the current charges he faces 45 years with a 15 year minimum or a possible suspended sentence with probation. On the older charges he faces up to 235 years and has to serve the mandatory minimum of 57 years, or possible probation"

After I read it a few times, my perspective changed. Sounds to me like plea deal with a "loophole". A way out perhaps...... for what reason?
:twocents:

 

[BunnyHop]

Just a few thoughts on the white SUV.
If this was reported early on as a suspicious vehicle at the site, I would imagine it would not be hard to spot or check.
I just can't imagine why this wasn't released early on. :banghead:



To me, a van is very different from an old boxy SUV, It's one or the other.

Something just feels off about so many things. :moo:

Hope something breaks soon and the truth is revealed. lease:

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Just catching up, sorry. I had to read this 5 times.
First time, my mind saw it as clear. 57 yr minimum OR possible early probation?
"he faces up to 235 years with a 57-year mandatory minimum or possible probation"

"On the current charges he faces 45 years with a 15 year minimum or a possible suspended sentence with probation. On the older charges he faces up to 235 years and has to serve the mandatory minimum of 57 years, or possible probation"

After I read it a few times, my perspective changed. Sounds to me like plea deal with a "loophole". A way out perhaps...... for what reason?
:twocents:

The Iowa legislature has, over the years, consistently written laws to give judges flexibility in sentencing. There have been a few (major) exceptions and those exceptions generally caused a huge outcry when it was thought that the law was unfair.

In drug cases with plea bargains, the prosecutors typically bring charges where there are wide possible outcomes in sentencing. After the defendant pleads guilty or with an Alford plea, they give LE their information. In such cases, sentencing is usually delayed by several months to give LE a chance to figure out if the information given was accurate.

If the defendant gave accurate information, the plea deal is likely to be towards the lower end of the range of sentencing. In this case, probably a certain number of years in prison plus probation for a certain number of years.

If the defendant's information is inaccurate, the plea deal typically stipulates that the sentence is up to the judge and the plea deal is not binding on the judge. A defendant in that situation can expect to get a much more severe sentence.

 

[BunnyHop]

The Iowa legislature has, over the years, consistently written laws to give judges flexibility in sentencing. There have been a few (major) exceptions and those exceptions generally caused a huge outcry when it was thought that the law was unfair.

In drug cases with plea bargains, the prosecutors typically bring charges where there are wide possible outcomes in sentencing. After the defendant pleads guilty or with an Alford plea, they give LE their information. In such cases, sentencing is usually delayed by several months to give LE a chance to figure out if the information given was accurate.

If the defendant gave accurate information, the plea deal is likely to be towards the lower end of the range of sentencing. In this case, probably a certain number of years in prison plus probation for a certain number of years.

If the defendant's information is inaccurate, the plea deal typically stipulates that the sentence is up to the judge and the plea deal is not binding on the judge. A defendant in that situation can expect to get a much more severe sentence.

Thanks GD, for you eloquent explanation.

So are you saying the deal is up for negotiation?
I know little of the legal end so I greatly appreciate input!

 

[Marilynilpa]

The Iowa legislature has, over the years, consistently written laws to give judges flexibility in sentencing. There have been a few (major) exceptions and those exceptions generally caused a huge outcry when it was thought that the law was unfair.

In drug cases with plea bargains, the prosecutors typically bring charges where there are wide possible outcomes in sentencing. After the defendant pleads guilty or with an Alford plea, they give LE their information. In such cases, sentencing is usually delayed by several months to give LE a chance to figure out if the information given was accurate.

If the defendant gave accurate information, the plea deal is likely to be towards the lower end of the range of sentencing. In this case, probably a certain number of years in prison plus probation for a certain number of years.

If the defendant's information is inaccurate, the plea deal typically stipulates that the sentence is up to the judge and the plea deal is not binding on the judge. A defendant in that situation can expect to get a much more severe sentence.

BBM

But wouldn't this be parole, not probation? I think probation is given in lieu of serving time, whereas parole is early release from a sentence being served.

IMO it appears both sentences could be probation, which is why it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The Iowa legislature has, over the years, consistently written laws to give judges flexibility in sentencing. There have been a few (major) exceptions and those exceptions generally caused a huge outcry when it was thought that the law was unfair.

In drug cases with plea bargains, the prosecutors typically bring charges where there are wide possible outcomes in sentencing. After the defendant pleads guilty or with an Alford plea, they give LE their information. In such cases, sentencing is usually delayed by several months to give LE a chance to figure out if the information given was accurate.

If the defendant gave accurate information, the plea deal is likely to be towards the lower end of the range of sentencing. In this case, probably a certain number of years in prison plus probation for a certain number of years.

If the defendant's information is inaccurate, the plea deal typically stipulates that the sentence is up to the judge and the plea deal is not binding on the judge. A defendant in that situation can expect to get a much more severe sentence.

Plea deals @ shenanigans.

What happened to the old days where you were accused of a crime and jailed if found guilty in a court of your peers?

It seems so straight forward...instead we have pedophiles and drug dealers running free due to one secret handshake or another.:stormingmad:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Just a few thoughts on the white SUV.
If this was reported early on as a suspicious vehicle at the site, I would imagine it would not be hard to spot or check.
I just can't imagine why this wasn't released early on. :banghead:

To me, a van is very different from an old boxy SUV, It's one or the other.

Something just feels off about so many things. :moo:

Hope something breaks soon and the truth is revealed. lease:

To me, they're either white or blue or green or whatever. :blush: Total vehicle ignoramus.

In this case, an SUV makes more sense than a van, due to where the bodies were found.

Also, when the Casey's white van was being looked for, LE said the driver "would have information". Did they meant that the white van was caught on film driving behind the mystery white SUV, or parked at Caseys, or tailgated at a stop sign?

That would be my conclusion. Van guy was unknowingly driving behind/parked beside our perp. Maybe our perp overtook him illegally on the road. LE had a reason to believe that white van guy had some sort of information about that SUV.

All kind of tends to argue against them having "absolutely no clue" :cow:

ETA: I've referred before here to our missing boy, Daniel Morcombe. LE had a fairly good idea who took him from the beginning, but it took 8 years and an inquest before he was arrested. Fascinating (and tragic) case.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I sincerely hope our girls case doesn't drag out 8 years, but the perp in Daniel's case first came to attention two weeks after he vanished.

He allowed LE to DNA test him, photograph him, and inspect his car.

He was formally interviewed several times over the years but never charged, until LE received a certain piece of information (the sort Evansdale LE are missing?) and an elaborate undercover operation was set up.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...anic-court-hears/story-e6freoof-1226570746636

 

[tlcya]

I have heard that two witnesses describe a boxy SUV type vehicle (think suburban, etc) and the other described a boxy looking SUV or van type vehicle.

To me the two are very different. MOO the van is factored in because of the third less sure witness.

They don't want to exclude a possible vehicle type that turns out toe be the right type later.

 

[B4igo2it]

Mostly assaults. A burglary charge, but no info. The attached is a timeline of his life. A few facts may not be correct. They say at the end Klunder was found in his truck. The ME said he hung himself. There's a couple more.

http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_b448708a-db89-11e2-bf27-0019bb2963f4.html

Per this link, the 3 yr. old girls were taken approx. 60 miles away where they were discarded. (you know the old saying about not leaving "stuff" in your own backyard)

this map may show the distance.
http://mapq.st/124jkup

snipped:
"Dec. 16, 1991 &#8212; Klunder is now living at the Lantern Park Apartments in Charles City ... Klunder becomes the main suspect in the kidnapping of two, 3-year-old girls, who were taken from the front yard of their Charles City day care. Both are found later that day in a garbage receptacle in Worth County. One of the children had been choked hard enough to raise concerns about her health. Other residents at the complex point to Klunder as a potential suspect. He is questioned but he becomes uncooperative. When police try to find him again, they find he has fled the city in his 1982 Honda Civic. He is wanted on two counts of first-degree kidnapping and false imprisonment." (note he is found in Houston, TX)