IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

[georger]

I'm still here...

There are a lot of similarities between the abductions of Lyric and Elizabeth and the two girls in Dayton, and both could be connected to Klunder. However, the difference in my opinion is a big one, and leads me to believe they are not connected.

(A) The abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth appears to be planned, well-executed, and "the perfect crime" with no reports (by media and LE) of confirmed sightings, witnesses, evidence, suspects.

(B) The abductor was able to keep the girls "hidden" for 5 months and has been undetected for almost a year.

(C)The abduction in Dayton appears to be random with witnesses, evidence, and even a suspect. Yes, there was an escaped victim and a suicide of the perp that aided in the investigation and search in Dayton, but there was carelessness with Klunder (leaving a gun behind with an unsupervised victim, blood-trail at and near the scene, witnesses, etc) that wasn't present or made public with Lyric and Elizabeth.

(A) above may be only luck. Since we dont have the perp we have no idea what "planning" was involved at Evansdale.

(B) Again luck and circumstance. There is no evidence of where the girls were for five months and one reason there is no evidence is BECAUSE LE wont release any forensic evidence it has!

(C) The Dayton abduction doesn't appear random to me! Its the result of a lifetime of experience on the perp's part! Very likely he has been looking and weighing opportunities for some time - not random at all!

He did screw up depending on a slip tie to secure his victim. That part may be random. Even the best serial rapists and murders screw up eventually - that is how they are usually caught!

:seeya:

 

[Bootsctr]

We have to keep in mind that klunder was convicted in 1992, long before DNA was used widely like it is today, his DNA should have been collected when science and laws changed but the fact is is that laziness and lack of resources could have prevented his DNA from ever entering the system. Even if they did take a sample from him before he was released how long would it take for them to test it and enter it into the system? Most places are backlogged by a decade or more I can guess.

Oh wow! I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for a clue! :seeya:

 

[georger]

:dunno: How do you go forward if Klunder is dead but the DNA matches up? I mean I guess they will go ahead and let the public know if it was Klunder? I hope so. I mean we deserve to know.

I wouldn't count on that at all!

I can easily see LE in Eastern Iowa never saying another word about the E&L crime, with or without Klunder, with or without evidence, etc etc etc! I could easily see the public left out for years to come ... albeit a few "exculpatory press conferences" along the way ...

The die has been cast here.

I could easily see LE jurisdictions winding up in conflict over this.

The Lyric and Elizabeth case is being very tightly controled for better or for worse. It's very frustrating and counterproductive on many levels but not a-typical. :banghead:

 

[Marilynilpa]

Marilynilpa, do you really think we will know soon? I so hope so. lease:

cinder, I hope that LE will issue some kind of statement next week:

An Iowa police chief says he hopes to know next week whether sex offender Michael Klunder is linked to the abduction and slaying of two cousins who vanished last year while riding bikes.

Evansdale Chief Kent Smock said Wednesday investigators are trying to retrace Klunder’s steps from July, when 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins were abducted. Their bodies were found in December.

http://www.kimt.com/2013/05/29/evansdale-cousins-and-klunder/

 

[foxbluff]

An Iowa police chief says he hopes to know next week whether sex offender Michael Klunder is linked to the abduction and slaying of two cousins who vanished last year while riding bikes.

Evansdale Chief Kent Smock said Wednesday investigators are trying to retrace Klunder’s steps from July, when 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins were abducted. Their bodies were found in December.

http://www.kimt.com/2013/05/29/evansdale-cousins-and-klunder/

bbm - I'm willing to bet that BlackHawkCo. isn't the only IA county that is now pulling out their unsolved case files and trying to track the Pigman's past whereabouts.

My guess would be that the crimes he's been caught for are only the tip-of-the iceberg.

 

[bessie]

For reference, here are links to the other girls' thread and Hollye's map for that case. I'll also add these to Post #1 so they'll be easy to find later.

IA IA - Kathlynn Shepard, 15, Dayton, 20 May 2013 - abduction of 2 girls, 1 located - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


IA IA - Kathlynn Shepard, 15, Dayton, 20 May 2013 - abduction of 2 girls, 1 located - #2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


http://goo.gl/maps/WFNqk

 

[cindersoot]

The Evansdale Police Department hopes to decide by next week whether Michael Klunder, a registered sex offender who abducted two central Iowa girls last week before hanging himself, was involved in the murders of two cousins last year.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/crime/Poli...e-Connection-To-Evansdale-Case-209346601.html

They said they are going thru phone records. Geez. I guess maybe they don't have any dna from Evansdale.:banghead:

 

[georger]

They said they are going thru phone records. Geez. I guess maybe they don't have any dna from Evansdale.:banghead:

The more I think about this - the madder I get.

No dna! Playing catch up!

Bottom line: People like Klunder belong on a special list under a Special Category of Most Likely
to Re-offend (said Header with Flashing Red Lights) ... in the Iowa Sex Offender Registry. Their
"current" dna, vehicle registrations, and more should already be on file based on past crimes
committed. That would only protect THEIR rights! (sarcasm noted)

Anything else is pure gobblewobble and the system is not working - to anyone's satisfaction.

:seeya::banghead:

 

[threecrazykids]

cinder, I hope that LE will issue some kind of statement next week:

An Iowa police chief says he hopes to know next week whether sex offender Michael Klunder is linked to the abduction and slaying of two cousins who vanished last year while riding bikes.

Evansdale Chief Kent Smock said Wednesday investigators are trying to retrace Klunder’s steps from July, when 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins were abducted. Their bodies were found in December.

http://www.kimt.com/2013/05/29/evansdale-cousins-and-klunder/

I think the key to this statement is bolded above. HE wants to know. Which is what is important really...but it will certainly be interesting to see how they respond to the whole connection.

They are going to struggle in how they reveal the yes or no connection of MK to E&L. If they come out and say "we were able to determine that MK is NOT considered a suspect in this case" everyone is going to want to know HOW they determined that...not that they are going to answer any specifics, but people aren't going to buy "well, his cell phone records don't indicate to us he was in the area". My first thought would be "Come on...he's not stupid, he could have intentionally left the phone at the hog lot all dang day...you better have checked into more than that".

What does that leave? DNA? Blood evidence? Ballistics? There would be a reveal of what they DID find with E&L if they are going to admit they have more than cell phone proof.

I am not holding my breath for Smock to say much of anything. They've been tight lipped so far and I have a feeling if he's not a match they will say as much. I have a feeling the statement will be very short and sweet:

"After our investigation we have determined that MK is NOT connected to the abduction of E&L. Due to the ongoing investigation, we are not willing to compromise any additional details regarding this case and how we were able to eliminate MK as a suspect - thank you". And he won't answer any questions the reporters throw at him digging for more.

JMO of course...but I think they will do what they are doing today...waiting and waiting and waiting for someone to give them another break.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I'm hoping if Klunder is responsible for E & L's deaths there is more than phone records to put him in Evansdale that day.

I think I'll be angry either way, if it was Klunder then how on earth was he never looked into? If LE had looked into RSOs especially ones who had kidnapped multiples before then he should have been on the radar and K&D would have never been victims. If it wasn't Klunder, then we will still be waiting for years to come because I honestly think LE has no clue what happened to them. I think it will remain unsolved. What if the perp died in a car accident in the last 10 months?

I really think the first few days of the investigation set the stage for the rest of the case. It wasn't listed as an abduction immediately. Even if LE was investigating something other than the lake, the general public was very much under the impression that the girls could have drowned in the lake.

 

[foxbluff]

For reference, here are links to the other girls' thread and Hollye's map for that case. I'll also add these to Post #1 so they'll be easy to find later.

IA IA - Kathlynn Shepard, 15, Dayton, 20 May 2013 - abduction of 2 girls, 1 located - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


IA IA - Kathlynn Shepard, 15, Dayton, 20 May 2013 - abduction of 2 girls, 1 located - #2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


http://goo.gl/maps/WFNqk

Thank you sooo much, Super-Mod-Bessie !!

I really appreciate your providing the links to KS's Board and Hollye's fantastic Google Map showing comparisons between locations involved in the two cases.

P.S. And thanks to Om&ms and watcher9 for having posted same on our last thread.

 

[Marilynilpa]

The more I think about this - the madder I get.

No dna! Playing catch up!

Bottom line: People like Klunder belong on a special list under a Special Category of Most Likely
to Re-offend (said Header with Flashing Red Lights) ... in the Iowa Sex Offender Registry. Their
"current" dna, vehicle registrations, and more should already be on file based on past crimes
committed. That would only protect THEIR rights! (sarcasm noted)

Anything else is pure gobblewobble and the system is not working - to anyone's satisfaction.

:seeya::banghead:

BBM

I believe "pure gobblewobble" describes things perfectly.

 

[maureen718]

"Smock said investigators were getting subpoenas for Klunder’s phone records and seeking other information."

Wish we knew what other information they were seeking.

I hope it's DNA! lease:

 

[georger]

I think the key to this statement is bolded above. HE wants to know. Which is what is important really...but it will certainly be interesting to see how they respond to the whole connection.

They are going to struggle in how they reveal the yes or no connection of MK to E&L. If they come out and say "we were able to determine that MK is NOT considered a suspect in this case" everyone is going to want to know HOW they determined that...not that they are going to answer any specifics, but people aren't going to buy "well, his cell phone records don't indicate to us he was in the area". My first thought would be "Come on...he's not stupid, he could have intentionally left the phone at the hog lot all dang day...you better have checked into more than that".

What does that leave? DNA? Blood evidence? Ballistics? There would be a reveal of what they DID find with E&L if they are going to admit they have more than cell phone proof.

I am not holding my breath for Smock to say much of anything. They've been tight lipped so far and I have a feeling if he's not a match they will say as much. I have a feeling the statement will be very short and sweet:

"After our investigation we have determined that MK is NOT connected to the abduction of E&L. Due to the ongoing investigation, we are not willing to compromise any additional details regarding this case and how we were able to eliminate MK as a suspect - thank you". And he won't answer any questions the reporters throw at him digging for more.

JMO of course...but I think they will do what they are doing today...waiting and waiting and waiting for someone to give them another break.

I would start with the vehicle Klunder was driving - last year. That, is a no-brainer. The FBI at 7-Bridges allegedly took tire prints? Do the tires match the tires on Klunder vehicle he was driving last year?

Prints, if any.

COD of the girls if it exists. Does this match a hog gun? Strangulation ie. throat bones broken on the girls (if they were found)? Klunder was known to strangle people as a method.

Interview people in the Evansdale-Waterloo area who may have known Klunder ... ie. Facebook etc ?

Klunder's computer ... any connects with Evansdale area there?

Klunder's gas receipts, if any.

et cetera ... the list is long ...

 

[georger]

BBM

I believe "pure gobblewobble" describes things perfectly.

Just to be totally transparent - that's Coach Hayden Fry's phrase, not mine. I just borrow it on occasion. (when it fits!)

:seeya:

 

[BunnyHop]

I hope it's DNA! lease:

I hope so too. They were able to prove the blood was Kathlynn's very quickly. I am hoping they have DNA proof quickly as well, if that's the case.

 

[foxbluff]

:dunno: How do you go forward if Klunder is dead but the DNA matches up? I mean I guess they will go ahead and let the public know if it was Klunder? I hope so. I mean we deserve to know.

bbm - yesss, exactly !!

You certainly can't arrest a dead perp or take him to trial, imo.

I simply can't figure out what Smock meant... grrrh...

 

[Bootsctr]

I would start with the vehicle Klunder was driving - last year. That, is a no-brainer. The FBI at 7-Bridges allegedly took tire prints? Do the tires match the tires on Klunder vehicle he was driving last year?

Prints, if any.

COD of the girls if it exists. Does this match a hog gun? Strangulation ie. throat bones broken on the girls (if they were found)? Klunder was known to strangle people as a method.

Interview people in the Evansdale-Waterloo area who may have known Klunder ... ie. Facebook etc ?

Klunder's computer ... any connects with Evansdale area there?

Klunder's gas receipts, if any.

et cetera ... the list is long ...

lease: lease: lease: georger I wish you worked for LE in BHC....... Then I would feel confident that the investigation would be done... Still praying for Kathlynn to come home and for Lyric & Elizabeth to have justice too. They were innocent children riding their bikes... :facepalm:

 

[iamnotagolem]

I would start with the vehicle Klunder was driving - last year. That, is a no-brainer. The FBI at 7-Bridges allegedly took tire prints? Do the tires match the tires on Klunder vehicle he was driving last year?

Prints, if any.

COD of the girls if it exists. Does this match a hog gun? Strangulation ie. throat bones broken on the girls (if they were found)? Klunder was known to strangle people as a method.

Interview people in the Evansdale-Waterloo area who may have known Klunder ... ie. Facebook etc ?

Klunder's computer ... any connects with Evansdale area there?

Klunder's gas receipts, if any.

et cetera ... the list is long ...

I don't think phone records and gas records are going to be sufficient. There is a reasonable chance he was in evansdale that day, even possibly at Casey's getting gas on camera, yet he might not be their killer. I'm really hoping there is some sort of DNA evidence in this case that will nail the perp that is responsible.

IIRC, Klunder has no murders on his rap sheet until Kathlynn, assuming she was murdered by him.

 

[threecrazykids]

I would start with the vehicle Klunder was driving - last year. That, is a no-brainer. The FBI at 7-Bridges allegedly took tire prints? Do the tires match the tires on Klunder vehicle he was driving last year?

Prints, if any.

COD of the girls if it exists. Does this match a hog gun? Strangulation ie. throat bones broken on the girls (if they were found)? Klunder was known to strangle people as a method.

Interview people in the Evansdale-Waterloo area who may have known Klunder ... ie. Facebook etc ?

Klunder's computer ... any connects with Evansdale area there?

Klunder's gas receipts, if any.

et cetera ... the list is long ...

Hopefully they would be able to make several connections...as I believe it would be crucial if they are going to pin this on him, dead or not. My reference would be if they were going to say he is NOT the perp, people will want to know how they eliminated him from being so. Receipts would be good to place where he WAS that day - but those may take awhile to get - and if he was smart enough to have purchased nothing that day that doesn't help much either.