IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #681
So what are the indicators you see in L&L's case?

L & L were abducted from a park; obvious place for a predator to lurk. A family member or drug revenge assassin would have chose a more private location.

L & L were under the supervision of the grandmother. Doubtful she would have motive..

Proximity of abduction site to Hwy 20..

Bicycle location & purse location near the lake for deflection/buy time...

Obvious psychological traits/evil aura, and probable staging by a sexual predator and abductor of two children, should have been detected at the abduction location by aware and instinctual detectives, imo....

Once the remains were located, it should have been verified in the investigators minds, and all resources should have focused on RSOs and experienced sexual predators in Iowa and surrounding states, with the behavioral profile that fit the known info..imo..
 
  • #682
All of Klunders victims were not children. The one he went to prison for was 21 years old.
MJK started out his life of evil as do most serial killers. MLK was 15 years old when he comitted his first violent sexual assault.. Their will more than likely be other signs such as arson and the torture of animals>symbols...
cat>feline>female....
It is a common denominator for sexual predators/serial killers..

I'm going to give up on trying to explain my point. Klunder, as far as we know, was NOT a serial killer, he was a child abductor/murderer. If you wish to continue educating us about serial killers, that's fine.

But in the case of Lyric and Lizzie, I prefer to focus on the characteristics of someone who would abduct and kill two children. That is statistically a very rare crime, and thus the perpetrator is unique among killers. IMO, I believe comparing this type of killer to a "traditional" serial killer is counterproductive and doesn't help figuring out who killed our girls.
 
  • #683
Did Klunder kill Kathlynn before he found out that DH had escaped?

Then killed himself after he knew DH had gotten away.

I'm not sure about the sequence of events. If I had to guess, I'd say he assaulted Kathlynn, went back for D, panicked when he saw she was gone, killed and dumped Kathlynn, then killed himself.
 
  • #684
I'd think that too but read one article a few days ago that had statements from the searchers who found the some of the blood at the confinement. It was a large amount. TOD for Klunder & Kathlynn may not be that much different to tell. DH having escaped definetly left MK with his own plan B for himself.
 
  • #685
.. Their will more than likely be other signs such as arson and the torture of animals>symbols...
cat>feline>female....
It is a common denominator for sexual predators/serial killers..

This part I can agree with....but I still do not feel that MK killed Lyric and Elizabeth, I don't even have any reasons why I feel this way, it's just a feeling. I have a vivid imagination, I see the real killer kind of smug as the months roll by. In the beginning LE and quite a few others thought it was the parents, the person who did this was probably enjoying the heat this family was under. Now we have MK, yes the possibilities seem to fit but as the days go by and possible weeks you would have to say, hey this isn't the right guy or it would be in their face. If true, the real killer gets to enjoy watching LE scatter themselves in all the wrong places. IMO
 
  • #686
Found where the searchers commented.

Evidence dampens hopes of finding teenager alive

Kristen Summers, 49, of Lehigh said she was with a group of 10 people who discovered a pool of blood that was 18 to 24 inches in diameter Tuesday night at the hog confinement farm. Law enforcement officers were not with the search party at the time, but were called, Summers said.

She said there were also droplets of blood leading to a hog building. None of the searchers went inside the building, Summers told The Des Moines Register.

"I knew right away it was definitely hers," Summers said.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...Evidence-dampens-hopes-finding-teenager-alive

I'd honestly rather just rule him out asap. The RSO friend living where he does, his ties to Bremer Co, the two at a time, his approach towards his victims...the rage he inflicted upon them. gah
 
  • #687
cindersoot, depends on the interpretation of the various statements by LE and the wording of msm articles. Guess, you could say that he is a POI, until the investigation is concluded..

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-iow...z/-/index.html

Evansdale investigators: Klunder just one of leads in case
Published 1:19 PM CDT Jun 07, 2013

Investigators looking into the Collins, Cook-Morrissey case have said they are looking at Klunder as a possible suspect in their case.

Chief Deputy Rick Abben of the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Department released the statement:

"While Mr. Klunder's actions in Dayton are of interest to this case, our focus remains on all aspects of the investigation and he is not the sole focus of our attention. Other leads continue to be uncovered and investigators continue to follow-up on any and all information that comes in.

"We will continue to keep the public up to date as information becomes available."

http://www.press-citizen.com/articl...-investigating-possible-Dayton-Evansdale-link

Officials still investigating possible Dayton-Evansdale link - Jun. 7, 2013

Capt. Rick Abben of the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Department, who is serving public information officer for the Evansdale case, said Thursday no obvious connections had been found thus far.

Meyers said the forensic portion of the investigation into Klunder’s possible connection to the Evansdale murders will take time. He did note that instances of having two people kidnapped at once are rare.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ne...cle_1042c3a8-c1fa-11e2-8e63-0019bb2963f4.html

Investigators say they are looking into whether Klunder could be linked to the slaying of two cousins, ages 8 and 10, who vanished last summer while riding bikes in Evansdale. In the 1980s, records show he lived at a residential treatment center for emotionally troubled children in Bremer County, where the cousins’ bodies were found in December.

:countsheep::stormingmad::banghead:
 
  • #688
If you don't think it's Klunder, would you elaborate as much as possible and of course do not cross TOS. tia

My first was a family member, still don't know. Next was several family members, next only druggie family members. Then to family members "friends" in jail too or up for court on the same crimes. The white van dude & the sausage/hog farm connection. Then onto JJB & RL. Then a few RSO's, then to Klunder. (there's a whole lot more in between but those stuck out the most). Never really felt a vibe with the bike dude. I know there's connections close to where the girls were found, but it just didn't click. I've tried though. Don't hate me. Hopefully, we'll just find out that I'm blind to crime after all. whew...
 
  • #689
Most people around here know what I think and it's totally against TOS.

I agree with everyone who can't get around the similarities between what Klunder did and what happened to L&L. They are glaring and common sense dictates, there can only be so many double abductors roaming the streets of Iowa.

I recall Jessica Ridgeway - there was a little girl abducted at the same time and in such similar circumstances they had to be related.

Except, they weren't. There actually were two nasty freaks prowling around at the time, hunting little girls, independently of each other.

:sick:
 
  • #690
I have no doubt there can be multiple creeps out there at any time searching for a victim. That's why I'm so ansty to eliminate at least one. gar That creep MK.

Put him out of the misery of the family, there isn't anyone who will be charging him, there isn't an "alledged killer" there isn't the "suspect", there isn't an "alledged crime" that I'm reading. He did it. It's over.

So if you can't bring your criminal to trial, and you know he did it, how's that handled? An announcement by the investigating officers? Yeah...that's it.

I believe the correct way is to conduct a formal investigation and wrap it up. He's dead. He did it.

He murdered Kathlynn, and I'm so glad DH was smart enough to run away. Safe! So proud of her.

ariba ariba, Speedy Gonzales, name him fgs.
 
  • #691
Most people around here know what I think and it's totally against TOS.

I agree with everyone who can't get around the similarities between what Klunder did and what happened to L&L. They are glaring and common sense dictates, there can only be so many double abductors roaming the streets of Iowa.

I recall Jessica Ridgeway - there was a little girl abducted at the same time and in such similar circumstances they had to be related.

Except, they weren't. There actually were two nasty freaks prowling around at the time, hunting little girls, independently of each other.

:sick:

Two nasty freaks! Yelp it happens. Thanks SS for reminding me.
 
  • #692
I'm going to give up on trying to explain my point. Klunder, as far as we know, was NOT a serial killer, he was a child abductor/murderer. If you wish to continue educating us about serial killers, that's fine.

But in the case of Lyric and Lizzie, I prefer to focus on the characteristics of someone who would abduct and kill two children. That is statistically a very rare crime, and thus the perpetrator is unique among killers. IMO, I believe comparing this type of killer to a "traditional" serial killer is counterproductive and doesn't help figuring out who killed our girls.

(Snipped & BBM)


Theodore Robert BUNDY

Birth name: Theodore Robert Cowell

Classification: Serial killer

Number of victims: 14 + (actual number unknown)
Date of murders: 1973 - 1978
Date of arrest: February 15, 1978
Date of birth: November 24, 1946
Victims profile: Girls and young women
Method of murder: Beating with metal bar / Strangulation
Location: Washington/Colorado/Utah/Oregon/Florida/Idaho/Vermont, USA
Status: Executed by electrocution in Florida on January 24, 1989


Known Victims


Name: Anne Marie Burr, 8 years-old.
Disappeared: August 13, 1962 from Tacoma, Pierce County, Washington.
Found: Never

Anne Marie lived only 10 blocks from 15 yr old Ted Bundy, the local paperboy, and followed him around like a puppy. She awoke one night to tell her parents her little sister was sick, then the small blonde girl presumably returned to bed. But the next morning, she was nowhere to be found, and a window facing the front street was wide open. The child was in her nightgown when she vanished. Despite a huge effort on the Tacoma police's part, the little girl was never found.

Name: Sue Curtis, 15 years-old.
Disappeared: June 28, 1975 from Layton, Utah
Found: Never

Name: Kimberly Leach, 12 years-old.

Disappeared: Feb 9, 1978 Lake City, Florida.
Found: Apr 7, 1978 Suwannee State Park, Florida.

The pretty, dark eyed, dark haired pre-teen was a small girl, 5 ft tall and 100 lbs. She was very excited the day she disappeared. She'd just been elected first runner up to the Valentine Queen at her junior high. Feb 9 was a rainy, windy day in Lake City. When she arrived at her PE class, she remembered leaving her purse in her homeroom class. Her teacher let her run off to get it. This meant dodging from one building to another. Kim's friend went with her, and as they started back to PE, her friend remembered something she herself had to retreive.

Kim kept going, and when her friend came back outside, she was alarmed to see the little girl going off with a man. Many witnesses that day remember seeing the little girl with an angry man, and he simply looked like a father who'd been called to school to take a naughty child home. They remembered the girl was crying. No one thought anything of it.The school called her home later that afternoon to routinely check on why she hadn't attended the rest of her classes. Her parents knew instantly that something was wrong--Kim didnt skip school, and she was very dependable.

She hadnt come home. They contacted the authorities, who went on the typical "run away" theory, but her parents knew she was too happy about the Valentine election, and she had absolutely no reason to be upset enough to run off. After 8 weeks of heavy searching, the bare bones of the girl who'd been thrilled to become runner up in the Valentine court, were found in a pigpen. There was evidence of sexual assault, but no head trauma. It appeared that she had been strangled, but the decomposition made it difficult to tell.

http://www.murderpedia.org/male.B/b1/bundy-ted-victims.htm
 
  • #693
I think the scariest part of this whole "did MK kill L&E or not" is that if D hadn't gotten away like she did we would more than likely have 2 sets of little girls dead and possibly no arrests for either crime.

:banghead:

I just hope that IF and when this is all said and done that I eat a big ole' helping of crow, with a foot in my mouth...because right now, I won't put my money on LE being able to close this case anytime soon...if ever.
 
  • #694
I'm not sure about the sequence of events. If I had to guess, I'd say he assaulted Kathlynn, went back for D, panicked when he saw she was gone, killed and dumped Kathlynn, then killed himself.

In one of the msm articles, it stated that MJ Klunder was witnessed riding around on a gravel road, hunting for D. Imo, he saw her with the adults witnessing him drive by and knew that his evil gig was up.
 
  • #695
I think the scariest part of this whole "did MK kill L&E or not" is that if D hadn't gotten away like she did we would more than likely have 2 sets of little girls dead and possibly no arrests for either crime.

:banghead:

I just hope that IF and when this is all said and done that I eat a big ole' helping of crow, with a foot in my mouth...because right now, I won't put my money on LE being able to close this case anytime soon...if ever.

With each successful victim/s abducted/devoured, sexual predators/serial killers hone their skills, become more elusive, escalate, and in virtually every case will continue their evil deeds until captured..
(snipped & BBM)

DAYTON, Iowa —The family of a 12-year-old who escaped from Michael Klunder believes the man is capable of kidnapping and killing two cousins in Evansdale.

DHS' STORY ABOUT ESCAPING HER ABDUCTOR


Authorities said two sets of girls about the same age vanished just months apart in two northern Iowa towns about 100 miles away from each other.

Investigators said three girls, Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins from Evansdale and Kathlynn Shepard from Dayton, died. The fourth girl, DH, managed to escape the Dayton kidnapping.

"We would still be looking for them, I believe. And we wouldn't know who, what, when, why or how," said Hughes' mother, Jeanette Andrews. “And (Klunder would have) moved on to the next set. I don't think he was ever going to stop."



Read more: http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io.../20624968/-/idq51n/-/index.html#ixzz2WlVmhTBO
 
  • #696
In the following KCCI article(video), Reporter Emily Price, stated that she had contacted several investigators/detectives, and agencies, including Evansdale for info/update. Non of the officers or agencies returned her call..


Police investigate Dayton-Evansdale connection
Expert: Finding connection will take luck, time, police work


Read more: http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io.../20624968/-/idq51n/-/index.html#ixzz2WlYhGUjG
 
  • #697
'Interesting comment by Heather Collins, from May 24/2013'

(snipped & BBM)
Heather Collins, the mother and aunt of the abducted Evansdale cousins, truly hopes there is a connection.

"He could be the guy," Collins said. "He knew Waverly pretty well. We're just waiting on the authorities to do their job -- FBI, DCI and police."


For nearly six months, Collins said multiple leads have been shared with her family. It wasn't until now that there appeared to be a direct connection to her daughter and niece.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...dead-colorado-kidnapping-ends-in-tragedy.html
 
  • #698
'Interesting comment by Heather Collins, from May 24/2013'

(snipped & BBM)
Heather Collins, the mother and aunt of the abducted Evansdale cousins, truly hopes there is a connection.

"He could be the guy," Collins said. "He knew Waverly pretty well. We're just waiting on the authorities to do their job -- FBI, DCI and police."

For nearly six months, Collins said multiple leads have been shared with her family. It wasn't until now that there appeared to be a direct connection to her daughter and niece.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...n-tragedy.html
 
  • #699
With each successful victim/s abducted/devoured, sexual predators/serial killers hone their skills, become more elusive, escalate, and in virtually every case will continue their evil deeds until captured..
(snipped & BBM)

DAYTON, Iowa —The family of a 12-year-old who escaped from Michael Klunder believes the man is capable of kidnapping and killing two cousins in Evansdale.

DEZI HUGHES' STORY ABOUT ESCAPING HER ABDUCTOR


Authorities said two sets of girls about the same age vanished just months apart in two northern Iowa towns about 100 miles away from each other.

Investigators said three girls, Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins from Evansdale and Kathlynn Shepard from Dayton, died. The fourth girl, DH, managed to escape the Dayton kidnapping.

"We would still be looking for them, I believe. And we wouldn't know who, what, when, why or how," said Hughes' mother, Jeanette Andrews. “And (Klunder would have) moved on to the next set. I don't think he was ever going to stop."



Read more: http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io.../20624968/-/idq51n/-/index.html#ixzz2WlVmhTBO

But Klunder has only killed one child...? (That we know of) Also Kathlynn did not resemble a child, at least to me.

And his skills weren't "escalating", if they were D would not have gotten away.

The reason Bundy was so "successful" is that he was clever, calculating, and he kept moving.

Blunder Klunder was none of these things. :moo:
 
  • #700
But Klunder has only killed one child...? (That we know of) Also Kathlynn did not resemble a child, at least to me.

And his skills weren't "escalating", if they were D would not have gotten away.

The reason Bundy was so "successful" is that he was clever, calculating, and he kept moving.

Blunder Klunder was none of these things. :moo:

RE: With each successful victim/s abducted/devoured, sexual predators/serial killers hone their skills, become more elusive, escalate, and in virtually every case will continue their evil deeds until captured..

SapphireSteel, escalation is the time period between attacks. Predators/serial killers hone their skills due to experience and lessons learned from each abduction.

Green River Task Force officials thought that Gary Ridgeway was idiot savant due to his IQ only being 78. His first murder attempt was at age 14. He lured a kid into the woods to see his fort. Once there, GR stabbed him. The little boy asked him, 'why did you kill me'? GR, laughing, said, 'I just wanted to see what it felt like'... The little boy survived and was in court 3 decades later when GR was sentenced to life w/o parole...
GR, eluded investigators for two decades and eventually was identified/arrested due to DNA technology upgrades 11/2001...

This doesn't mean that they don't make mistakes.. Many predators become overconfident and brazen with time. Most predators eventually do get caught, either due to the public's tips or dna & other forensics..

It will be interesting to learn if MJ Klunder, was downloading child or other 🤬🤬🤬🤬.
T Bundy, was caught in a routine traffic stop(stolen VW Beetle)in FL. The LEO noticed handcuffs & an abduction kit in the trunk of the car..
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
49
Guests online
1,442
Total visitors
1,491

Forum statistics

Threads
632,471
Messages
18,627,226
Members
243,163
Latest member
420Nana
Back
Top