IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #33

[Bootsctr]

The bodies may have been in such a condition that they don't know what happened to them.

:twocents:

That is true. However, there is that persistent little tidbit of information that dismissed as sensationalism that the bodies were not as decomposed as one would expect if they had been there since the day of the abduction, or days within the abduction (being that the FBI came out and said they believed the girls to be alive days after the abduction). Maybe LE allowed that information to be released on purpose ? hoping that the person who did it would be the only one who would know the condition of the bodies and slip up in that way. I expect the killer or killers would still want to be in control of the bodies after the fact. We don't even know if the bodies were clothed or not? We only know that Elizabeth was ID'd by her clothing/shoes first by her family. It was weeks before the bodies/remains were released for burial/cremation. And even then, LE was hesitant to say their deaths were a result of homicide. It has only been since Klunder came into the picture that we got a little bit more information. :banghead:

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I just recently discovered The First 48. It is an excellent show for those interested in learning how LE goes about investigating murders. There is now After the First 48 which gives updates on previous The First 48 that were not solved. Fascinating look at how investigators work and their mindset. So glad you are feeling up to spinning yarn too Grainne Dhu! Your posts are most informative and thought-provoking. I appreciate your comments regarding Evelyn Miller and her killer, Frederickson. Much food for thought in your posts. :fence:

Thank you!

Watching The First 48 Hours has really given me an appreciation for how detective work goes. Some cases are easy to solve and some take a lot of effort. In the cases that are not easy to solve, it's like the detectives are looking at a bucket filled with beads that are strung together in different lengths. They can't see for sure which beads are connected, so they pick out a likely looking bead and unravel that string from all the rest. Sometimes it's a string that isn't really connected to the rest, sometimes it turns out to lead directly to the perp and sometimes the beads are connected in ways that I'd never expect.

The other thing is the way the detectives talk over possibilities in the difficult to solve cases. It's a lot like posts on WS! Maybe this, maybe that, if this happened then maybe the next thing that happened, etc.

 

[Foxfire]

I know this is a far stretch...but I did find it quite odd when just perusing threads I noticed that an "older white boxy" vehicle was apparently used in the abduction of Alexis Murphy as well.

ACTIVE SEARCH VA - Alexis Murphy, 17, Shipman, 3 Aug 2013 - **ARREST** - #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Granted, there appears to be camo or something of the sort down the sides of this vehicle (which I would think have been noted if that were the case with the vehicle mentioned by LE with E&L's case)...but still a strange coincidence nonetheless.

Check out Randy Taylor's tires...and compare to the tire tracks found on this aware citizen's large track of private forested land near where Alexis Murphy was abducted:

http://www.wset.com/story/23175388/...ks-on-his-property-authorities-to-search-area
Exclusive Source Tells ABC 13 He Found Tire Tracks on His Property, Authorities to Search Area

 

[Bootsctr]

Check out Randy Taylor's tires...and compare to the tire tracks found on this aware citizen's large track of private forested land near where Alexis Murphy was abducted:

http://www.wset.com/story/23175388/...ks-on-his-property-authorities-to-search-area
Exclusive Source Tells ABC 13 He Found Tire Tracks on His Property, Authorities to Search Area

I'm not an expert on tire tracks, but I definitely think they could be a match. I remember early on in the girls' case we saw some photos of tracks at Meyers Lake and then later pictures of tracks were taken at 7-Bridges too,

 

[dotr]

The perp/s could be from anywhere and hiding anywhere..
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...d_porn_investigation_arrested_in_toronto.html

"A man who fled the U.S. after an investigation into child charges against him has been arrested in Toronto.

Police allege the 35-year-old St. Louis, Mo. man left the area following the investigation last month. After crossing the border, it is believed he made his way into the GTA.

Paul Daniel Latina is wanted by the State of Missouri for possession of child , sexual misconduct involving a child and failure to register as a sex offender"

Also arrested in Colorado for sex assault on child..
http://www.sorarchives.com/directory/CO/L/Paul_Daniel_Latina_89547

 

[SapphireSteel]

We still don't know if this was a sexual crime.

Certainly any sort of online grooming activity would have been identified by now, and as we've heard nothing about this occurring or being investigated I'm crossing it off the list of possibilities.

The motives for killing two girls is fairly limited - either sexual, profit, or revenge. It could also be a thrill kill.

So it's either -

A completely random, one in a million collision of coincidences, the girls were literally in the wrong place at the wrong time; (the location the bodies were found and other factors tends to indicate a local so I personally dismiss a transient, random abductor)

or

A very well planned and executed crime, with or without a sexual motive.

If someone had planned to hunt these girls for sex or trafficking, IMO they would still be in a basement somewhere, not left out the back of nowhere as they were. It seems that they died the day they were abducted so that eliminates trafficking as a motive for me.

:cow:

 

[threecrazykids]

Interesting article on abductions and a couple snips:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/va...cle_4d47027a-058c-11e3-a66f-0019bb2963f4.html

According to a study done in the state of Washington and with the U.S. Department of Justice, 44 percent of children will be dead in the first hour after abduction; 74 percent are killed within three hours.

Only 1 percent survive one day. Forty percent die before anyone reports them missing.

Most children are abducted within one quarter mile of where they were last seen – important to know, especially if businesses are proactive and have surveillance video in stores; and most killers do not take children far. Most children are taken within 200 feet from their homes. More than 60 percent of killers live and work in the area in which they abduct children.

Not sure whether those stats are accurate or not and I certainly am not going to do the research to prove them right or wrong.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Interesting article on abductions and a couple snips:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/va...cle_4d47027a-058c-11e3-a66f-0019bb2963f4.html

According to a study done in the state of Washington and with the U.S. Department of Justice, 44 percent of children will be dead in the first hour after abduction; 74 percent are killed within three hours.

Only 1 percent survive one day. Forty percent die before anyone reports them missing.

Most children are abducted within one quarter mile of where they were last seen – important to know, especially if businesses are proactive and have surveillance video in stores; and most killers do not take children far. Most children are taken within 200 feet from their homes. More than 60 percent of killers live and work in the area in which they abduct children.

Not sure whether those stats are accurate or not and I certainly am not going to do the research to prove them right or wrong.

BBM

That most children are taken within 200 feet of home makes a lot of sense to me because most children spend their time outside of school within 200 feet of home. It's the same reason why most car accidents happen within 20 miles of home. It isn't that everyone lives in a high risk traffic area, it's that we spend most of our time in the car within 20 miles of home.

Likewise with 60% of killers living and working in the same area they abduct their victims. That's their comfort zone, the area they know best and spend the most time in. They're constantly looking, noting possible opportunities even if they can't abduct a child that particular day. So someone who drove down the nearest cross street to the Collins home frequently may have noted that they could often see young children in that area. Or someone who drove down Arbutus may have noted that little half overgrown stub of Maiden Lane and realised they could hide a vehicle there.

 

[threecrazykids]

BBM

That most children are taken within 200 feet of home makes a lot of sense to me because most children spend their time outside of school within 200 feet of home. It's the same reason why most car accidents happen within 20 miles of home. It isn't that everyone lives in a high risk traffic area, it's that we spend most of our time in the car within 20 miles of home.

Likewise with 60% of killers living and working in the same area they abduct their victims. That's their comfort zone, the area they know best and spend the most time in. They're constantly looking, noting possible opportunities even if they can't abduct a child that particular day. So someone who drove down the nearest cross street to the Collins home frequently may have noted that they could often see young children in that area. Or someone who drove down Arbutus may have noted that little half overgrown stub of Maiden Lane and realised they could hide a vehicle there.

Speaking on this general topic...one thing that has always struck me as strange with this case is how brazen this person was IF they weren't familiar with the girls (and if they were indeed taken down at the back of the lake).

IMO this person almost HAD to know that these girls parents weren't around. If you were a stranger and planned an abduction, you'd be taking the risk that the parent or whomever was supervising the children would be in at least a sight/yelling distance and would catch you in the act.

How did this person know that the girls parent wasn't over at the playground area with the younger kids, or even walking/biking around the trail and was in close proximity that these girls could have screamed out for help?

There WERE people at the lake that day, so IMO either this person KNEW the girls wouldn't scream (as in they knew who their killer was) OR they KNEW no parents were around to come save them even if they did yell for help.

 

[carbuff]

Opportunistic predators are really good at sizing up the situation and identifying vulnerability. It's like they smell it.

If he took them over in that wooded area on the back side of the lake, and had his vehicle there, he could have had them inside and be on his way before they had time to do more than shriek. Even if somebody heard them -- unlikely at that distance -- they'd think it was a kid at play if the scream wasn't repeated.

He could also have been watching them for a few minutes.

 

[Foxfire]

Interesting article on abductions and a couple snips:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/va...cle_4d47027a-058c-11e3-a66f-0019bb2963f4.html

According to a study done in the state of Washington and with the U.S. Department of Justice, 44 percent of children will be dead in the first hour after abduction; 74 percent are killed within three hours.

Only 1 percent survive one day. Forty percent die before anyone reports them missing.

Most children are abducted within one quarter mile of where they were last seen – important to know, especially if businesses are proactive and have surveillance video in stores; and most killers do not take children far. Most children are taken within 200 feet from their homes. More than 60 percent of killers live and work in the area in which they abduct children.

Not sure whether those stats are accurate or not and I certainly am not going to do the research to prove them right or wrong.

Thanx for sharing this very interesting & informative article, threecrazykids. As we know from recidivist predator MJ Klunder's abduction of KS & DH. Predators are becoming more aware of abduction investigative strategies, geographical statistics, forensics, communication technology, etc., and will adapt their plans for deception.

Imo, all towns/municipalities LEAs must have a pre-abduction plan in place. Time is critical in all abductions, yet immediate resources are scarce in most cases. I have been working on a guideline for establishing a pre-abduction plan for several years. This idea came about during a conversation with the lead investigator in a stranger predator abduction case in GA. The abduction was in a small rural north GA tourist town. It was the 2nd stranger predator abduction in only 18 months by two different predators.

I would like to elaborate on the advantages of how a proactive pre-abduction plan works. Have a Dr'a apt. now and running late..


http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130608/NEWS/306080033/Timeline-Kathlynn-Shepard-case
Timeline in the Kathlynn Shepard case


<sniped & BBM from article link above>
VanLuchene dispelled inaccurate information about sexual offenders. Public perception is often shaped by sensationalistic stories found in the media, he said. Getting a true understanding about offenders is an ongoing search.

Mitchell County Sheriff Greg Beaver echoed the thought.

“I don’t want our area to be an Evansdale; we do not want to be a Dayton,” referring to child kidnapping and murders that occurred there.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Speaking on this general topic...one thing that has always struck me as strange with this case is how brazen this person was IF they weren't familiar with the girls (and if they were indeed taken down at the back of the lake).

IMO this person almost HAD to know that these girls parents weren't around. If you were a stranger and planned an abduction, you'd be taking the risk that the parent or whomever was supervising the children would be in at least a sight/yelling distance and would catch you in the act.

How did this person know that the girls parent wasn't over at the playground area with the younger kids, or even walking/biking around the trail and was in close proximity that these girls could have screamed out for help?

There WERE people at the lake that day, so IMO either this person KNEW the girls wouldn't scream (as in they knew who their killer was) OR they KNEW no parents were around to come save them even if they did yell for help.

Another possibility is that the predator lured the girls in with something that gave him plausible deniability. Such as offering them a job, asking them to help him search for a lost kitten, etc. If a caregiver had seen him and accosted him, it would look bad but it's actually not illegal to offer kids $5 for pulling weeds or to ask for help looking for a pet. Bad judgment is not illegal even if it is suspicious as all get out.

When I envision the little patch of woods by the corner of Meyers Lake, it's easy to see someone luring two young girls in by saying that their puppy had slipped the collar and run into the woods. The girls would go into the woods voluntarily and by the time they realised something was wrong, they'd be out of sight and out of earshot (remember the road construction right above that spot).

Plus, some kids are screamers and others just aren't. It takes a lot of training to get a natural non-screamer to scream, much more than one or two talks about stranger danger.

There was a case over in Bettendorf (or Davenport?) several years back when a 3 year old let go of his mom's hand in a crowd. She immediately turned to find him and he was gone. She started screaming and onlookers grabbed a man who had the 3 year old by the hand and was leading him away. How's that for brazen? He claimed that he thought the child was lost and he was going to take him into a store to call the police. If she had been distracted for just a couple seconds, that little boy would probably have disappeared forever.

Another reason I am a firm believer in leading reins for small children in public. They're so quick, it's just too easy for them to slip their hand out of an adult's hand when something catches their attention.

 

[carbuff]

Yes, I used a safety harness with all my kids. It was a great comfort to both me and them, because they didn't worry so much about becoming separated.

 

[watcher9]

Yes, I used a safety harness with all my kids. It was a great comfort to both me and them, because they didn't worry so much about becoming separated.

I can see the use of a safety harness in many cases, but it could lead to a false sense of security nowadays. These brazen predators may figure a way to cut the tether from the child behind a clothing rack or in a crowd and snatch the child without being noticed by the parent.

 

[carbuff]

I can see the use of a safety harness in many cases, but it could lead to a false sense of security nowadays. These brazen predators may figure a way to cut the tether from the child behind a clothing rack or in a crowd and snatch the child without being noticed by the parent.

Better than losing them any time your attention lapses. That's kind of like saying you shouldn't use a seat belt because it wouldn't protect you if you drive your car off a cliff.

 

[Foxfire]

OT- Missouri
http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-searchers-find-adriaunna-hortons-body-20130821,0,1606332.story

Father says searchers found missing girl's body
Adriaunna Horton's family went to Lamar to identify her body on Wednesday afternoon.

<sniped - read more>
More than 250 volunteers and employees of about 15 public service agencies looked for Adriaunna on Monday evening, all day Tuesday, and Wednesday. They rode on horseback and four-wheelers, and the Missouri State Highway Patrol used dive teams and a helicopter.

Bobby D. Bourne Jr., 34, was charged on Tuesday for kidnapping the girl on Monday. He's in the Barton County jail in lieu of a $1 million bond.

Officers arrested Bourne on Monday evening about 90 minutes after Adriaunna's friends said Bourne drove Adriaunna away from the park. The friends said Adriaunna left with Bourne because Bourne said he needed her help to find his daughter, with whom Adraunna had played in the past. Horton's father says Bourne once worked for him.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I can see the use of a safety harness in many cases, but it could lead to a false sense of security nowadays. These brazen predators may figure a way to cut the tether from the child behind a clothing rack or in a crowd and snatch the child without being noticed by the parent.

A child is in much more danger from any number of things that do not include abduction by a stranger.

My sister and I witnessed the aftermath of a horrible accident once. We were in the mall and this mother who had a child about the same age as my nephew gave my sister the look of disdain and made a snide comment about how she would never treat her child like a dog. We were slowly heading out of the mall and that woman with her child got ahead of us by maybe 30 seconds.

When we went outside, we heard screaming for help. My sister is a doctor so she handed my nephew's leading rein to me and went to see if she could help while I distracted her son.

That little boy had been tempted by something and darted out directly in front of a city bus. He hit his head very hard on the fender and was not responding. My sister did CPR on him until the ambulance came but said she didn't get a flicker of response, so it didn't look hopeful.

My nephew got the surprise of his life when we went back into the mall and bought him an ice cream. We had to wait for the police so my sister could give a statement and we both wanted to spoil him. More than wanted, we needed to spoil him.

Children are in much more danger from common things like five gallon buckets with liquid in them, toilets, dressers that can tip, being in a parking lot, etc, etc, than they are from abduction by stranger. Nothing can completely protect a child but there are things that can decrease risks.

 

[Bootsctr]

Thanx for sharing this very interesting & informative article, threecrazykids. As we know from recidivist predator MJ Klunder's abduction of KS & DH. Predators are becoming more aware of abduction investigative strategies, geographical statistics, forensics, communication technology, etc., and will adapt their plans for deception.

Imo, all towns/municipalities LEAs must have a pre-abduction plan in place. Time is critical in all abductions, yet immediate resources are scarce in most cases. I have been working on a guideline for establishing a pre-abduction plan for several years. This idea came about during a conversation with the lead investigator in a stranger predator abduction case in GA. The abduction was in a small rural north GA tourist town. It was the 2nd stranger predator abduction in only 18 months by two different predators.

I would like to elaborate on the advantages of how a proactive pre-abduction plan works. Have a Dr'a apt. now and running late..


http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130608/NEWS/306080033/Timeline-Kathlynn-Shepard-case
Timeline in the Kathlynn Shepard case


<sniped & BBM from article link above>
VanLuchene dispelled inaccurate information about sexual offenders. Public perception is often shaped by sensationalistic stories found in the media, he said. Getting a true understanding about offenders is an ongoing search.

Mitchell County Sheriff Greg Beaver echoed the thought.

“I don’t want our area to be an Evansdale; we do not want to be a Dayton,” referring to child kidnapping and murders that occurred there.

A big thanks to both 3CK and Foxfire for both links. It is a very good timeline for Kathlynn Shepard's abduction. However, I still think we have a separate predator for the Evansdale case. He could be very similar to Klunder, even being at the same boys' school, and I think LE is beginning to acknowledge that in that Sheriff Beaver stated separately Evansdale and then Dayton. It is frustrating that we are not hearing that from Black Hawk County law enforcement, but I still assume they are protecting the integrity of Lyric and Elizabeth's case. I wonder sometimes about the picture we first saw of where the bodies were discovered. Would that have been published w/o LE permission of the placement of the bodies? The placement of the bodies would have been something known only to the perp. Maybe because the bodies were not discovered by LE but hunters, LE figured how the bodies were found would get out to the public no matter what they did and chose to let that picture be released. I also assume the parents would have questioned if the girls were found together or separate. . .

 

[Bootsctr]

OT- Missouri
http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-searchers-find-adriaunna-hortons-body-20130821,0,1606332.story

Father says searchers found missing girl's body
Adriaunna Horton's family went to Lamar to identify her body on Wednesday afternoon.

<sniped - read more>
More than 250 volunteers and employees of about 15 public service agencies looked for Adriaunna on Monday evening, all day Tuesday, and Wednesday. They rode on horseback and four-wheelers, and the Missouri State Highway Patrol used dive teams and a helicopter.

Bobby D. Bourne Jr., 34, was charged on Tuesday for kidnapping the girl on Monday. He's in the Barton County jail in lieu of a $1 million bond.

Officers arrested Bourne on Monday evening about 90 minutes after Adriaunna's friends said Bourne drove Adriaunna away from the park. The friends said Adriaunna left with Bourne because Bourne said he needed her help to find his daughter, with whom Adraunna had played in the past. Horton's father says Bourne once worked for him.

Thank you! I am thankful they have the perp and have found beautiful little Adriaunna. She reminds me a bit of Lizzie although older than Lizzie. *sigh* This world can be so cruel, unfair and unjust. Thinking about the Australian college baseball player shot in Oklahoma because the teens were "bored." :stormingmad:

 

[carbuff]

A child is in much more danger from any number of things that do not include abduction by a stranger.

My sister and I witnessed the aftermath of a horrible accident once. We were in the mall and this mother who had a child about the same age as my nephew gave my sister the look of disdain and made a snide comment about how she would never treat her child like a dog. We were slowly heading out of the mall and that woman with her child got ahead of us by maybe 30 seconds.

When we went outside, we heard screaming for help. My sister is a doctor so she handed my nephew's leading rein to me and went to see if she could help while I distracted her son.

That little boy had been tempted by something and darted out directly in front of a city bus. He hit his head very hard on the fender and was not responding. My sister did CPR on him until the ambulance came but said she didn't get a flicker of response, so it didn't look hopeful.

My nephew got the surprise of his life when we went back into the mall and bought him an ice cream. We had to wait for the police so my sister could give a statement and we both wanted to spoil him. More than wanted, we needed to spoil him.

Children are in much more danger from common things like five gallon buckets with liquid in them, toilets, dressers that can tip, being in a parking lot, etc, etc, than they are from abduction by stranger. Nothing can completely protect a child but there are things that can decrease risks.

Oh my, how horrifying. And yes, excellent point about the other dangers.

I started using the safety harness after an incident with a friend of mine. We were out shopping. She was holding her 2.5-year-old daughter by the hand while we waited for a light to change. The daughter jumped off the curb -- down about four inches -- and when her mom pulled her back, her shoulder popped out of the socket. Most pathetic sound I've ever heard in my life. The poor little thing cried and cried. No lasting effects, than goodness...