IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[threecrazykids]

I think 10 people who saw the interview could give you 10 different interpretations for what they saw. I didn't see a woman "who isn't burdened by this any longer." I saw a woman who turned the burden over to God to lift from her. Do I believe the burden is totally lifted? No I don't. I think she has to pray and pray and pray about it. I, like Grainne Dhu stated, believe Heather's strength is "enormous but brittle" and worry she will "fall into rubble."

I also worry about Misty's surviving son that needs a mother who is absent from his life and I worry about her possible exposure to the drugs that have already damaged her life.

I don't feel comfortable sitting here participating in crucifying Heather for not acting the way some feel she should act and criticizing her for how she treats her sister. I don't feel comfortable reading things that lead to false rumors stating that Misty removed herself from town and is a better or smarter woman for doing so when that really isn't the case. The only truth to that statement is yes, she's in another town.

Please note I didn't say she WAS headed toward a better life I said I HOPED she was.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that her drug connections are still rearing their ugly head, statistically speaking. Makes me sad for her and her family (esp. her son!).

 

[tlcya]

I don't know Heather, I've never met her and I certainly have no business passing judgment on her. The following is meant with great respect for her.

My impression of Heather is that she is coping with life by having very rigid boundaries. Right now, whoever the perp who killed Elizabeth and Lyric is just a theoretical person to her, not a specific human being. It's much easier to say in the abstract that one would forgive the person who did this because what one is forgiving is a theoretical construct. I think her stated preference not to know anything of the details of what happened to Elizabeth and Lyric is part of her coping method. By not knowing the details, it stays somewhat removed from her consciousness.

I think she loved Elizabeth and Lyric dearly and she clings to those memories, rather than thinking about the last day of their lives.

So far as her relationship with her sister is concerned, I think she has probably been disappointed many times in Misty. And Misty may well have been disappointed in Heather, may have yearned for unconditional love from Heather and not gotten it. Most of all, Misty is not an abstract person to Heather, Misty is an uncomfortably real person with good qualities and big faults. When it comes to dealing with the undeniable reality of Misty, Heather just can't do it.

I may well be wrong about the following and I hope I am. My impression is that Heather's strength is enormous but brittle. If something happens to cause one tiny crack in her strength, she will fall into rubble and face a very difficult journey to put herself back together again.

Great Post

 

[threecrazykids]

What I took away from the interview is that Ron Steele needed a topic for his 1/2 hour show on Sunday mornings. I saw that HE led the discussion, HE asked the questions. That's all I took from it. He had his typical half hour small town production and they were who he decided to interview.

Maybe you could write to him and ask him to have Wylma and Misty on. Maybe Tammy would be more informative? She usually is.

Would it surprise you if I said it had been suggested and that apparently none of those people want to be interviewed, nor do they want associations to the fundraising efforts that Heather and Drew are a part of?

 

[nikb]

How do you forgive your child's killer if you don't even know who the killer is? How do you know if the killer is truly sorry? He hasn't even admitted what he did. He hasn't apologized. You don't know his back story either or whether he has committed other crimes since then. Maybe he will be arrested and convicted one day, but will insist on giving interviews, and saying horrible things to the media, etc.

Not to mention, how do they even know it's a "he"? I realize that's most likely the case, but it could be a woman too. I wonder how that would change her opinion, if at all.

 

[B4igo2it]

Would it surprise you if I said it had been suggested and that apparently none of those people want to be interviewed, nor do they want associations to the fundraising efforts that Heather and Drew are a part of?

some people are extremely selfish. Why would they not want to do everything in their power to find those responsible and prevent this from ever happening to another person again!

The concert was awesome! Fundraising efforts build community love and support, promote public awareness, keep the memory of Lyric and Elizabeth alive because their lives mattered, and serve as a reminder that those responsible are still out their and we are looking for them (and we will find those responsible with or without their help).

 

[threecrazykids]

some people are extremely selfish. Why would they not want to do everything in their power to find those responsible and prevent this from ever happening to another person again!

The concert was awesome! Fundraising efforts build community love and support, promote public awareness, keep the memory of Lyric and Elizabeth alive because their lives mattered, and serve as a reminder that those responsible are still out their and we are looking for them (and we will find those responsible with or without their help).

Umm...selfish? Misty, Dan, Tammy and Wylma were out beating the streets, doing interviews, making posters, begging John Walsh to get involved from day 1...when time was of the essence. I hardly find their efforts during those first crucial days as selfish.

Heather and Drew have claimed they handed the investigation over to LE because they are the professionals and chose to not be public when the demise of the girls was still questionable.

No fundraising effort is going to catch who did this. Awareness and money for the park? Sure...but keep in mind, everything that has been done "fundraising" wise has benefited ONLY Evansdale...not Waterloo...which is where Lyric was from...so that could also be concerted as selfish, don't you think?

I think the Collins efforts that have abound POST discovery of their bodies are more than admirable. I hope that laws are changed, reigns are tightened on tracking RSO's etc., and that they find the Angel's park a place to reflect on Lizzie.

Can you even IMAGINE what would happen if they were a part of the fundraising? It would be "they are going to figure out a way to use that money for drugs or to help Dan" etc.

I don't feel that it's any more fair to call Lyric's parents selfish because they don't want to make a public spectacle of their daughters death, than for someone to say that Heather and Drew are selfishly profiting from it.

JMO:twocents:

 

[Fukiyama]

We all know grief takes many forms.

I went to Catholic school (although not Catholic) and one of the things that baffled me was the nuns laughing and smiling at another nun's funeral.

I was shocked, funerals were places of grief in my eyes, however after a minute or two's thought even my 13 year old Anglican self realised that the nuns were happy because they genuinely believed their sister had gone to Jesus and was in a far better place, indeed where they all hoped to go at the end of their earthly lives.

It wasn't grief, it was almost a celebration. That's belief.

:twocents:

Serious Catholics who know about such traditions refer to the day of death as one's true birthday, especially with saints.

 

[B4igo2it]

On July 13, Drew and Heather will participate in a Memorial Ride and Drive to commemorate Lyric and Elizabeth. Proceeds will go to the memorial park and Cedar Valley Crime Stoppers. They remain focused on working for changes they hope will make Iowa safer for other children, while acknowledging their own healing may never come. "I know that until changes are made, this is just going to continue to happen," Drew said. "I know what it's done to us and what it's done to our kids. I don't want anybody to go through what we've gone through."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/07/missing-iowa-girls-year-later/2497109/

 

[B4igo2it]

Cedar Valley Crimestoppers
September 9.

A big thank you to Lamar Advertising for their donation of billboards to Cedar Valley Crime Stoppers. Also, a big thank you to Drew Collins for the idea and making the initial phone calls.

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/999127_401476476620572_2066815213_n.jpg
(Photo of the billboard)

https://www.facebook.com/CVCrimestoppers

 

[FrayedKnot]

Umm...selfish? Misty, Dan, Tammy and Wylma were out beating the streets, doing interviews, making posters, begging John Walsh to get involved from day 1...when time was of the essence. I hardly find their efforts during those first crucial days as selfish.

Heather and Drew have claimed they handed the investigation over to LE because they are the professionals and chose to not be public when the demise of the girls was still questionable.

No fundraising effort is going to catch who did this. Awareness and money for the park? Sure...but keep in mind, everything that has been done "fundraising" wise has benefited ONLY Evansdale...not Waterloo...which is where Lyric was from...so that could also be concerted as selfish, don't you think?

I think the Collins efforts that have abound POST discovery of their bodies are more than admirable. I hope that laws are changed, reigns are tightened on tracking RSO's etc., and that they find the Angel's park a place to reflect on Lizzie.

Can you even IMAGINE what would happen if they were a part of the fundraising? It would be "they are going to figure out a way to use that money for drugs or to help Dan" etc.

I don't feel that it's any more fair to call Lyric's parents selfish because they don't want to make a public spectacle of their daughters death, than for someone to say that Heather and Drew are selfishly profiting from it.

JMO:twocents:

Yes, yes and yes.

How is fundraising going to bring these girls back, anyway?

This family has been bashed like no other I have ever seen in WS history. Not a single one has been named as a POI by LE and yet every day they are maligned and insinuated about. I hope it will soon stop or be disallowed.

We are victim friendly, right?

 

[song22]

I come from a faith tradition (Mennonite) with a very strong emphasis on forgiving the enemy. you see it exemplified in the Amish response after the Nickel Mines shooting. I understand Heather's response very well. heather is not Mennonite, but there are other Christians who practice this kind of radical forgiveness. First, you forgive because you are a follower of Jesus and he forgave his enemies. You are taught this in church and you want to be more and more like Christ, so you conform yourself to that ideal. you might not feel it in your heart but you pray that God would help you to forgive. I believe that Heather is forgiving out of obedience to God, but also she has been taught that when you do this you disarm evil and are able to be empowered. the secular psychology angle of it, how it frees you from the bonds of anger. BUT there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. I forgive my stepdad for abusing me. i do not have a relationship with him because his behavior continues to be unhealthy and hurtful for me. I have never heard Heather say that she does not forgive her sister. I've only heard her say she does not have a relationship with her.

I know that there are other ways of being Christian and other interpretations of following Christ, but I am very familiar with Heather's response here. I have seen that sense of detachment or peace or resignation, whatever you want to call it in many, many friends and family members with regards to trauma. I'm not saying it is the right way to be a Christian or the right way/wrong way to respond, I'm just saying in some cultures (and I do believe different churches are like different cultures) it is normal.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I come from a faith tradition (Mennonite) with a very strong emphasis on forgiving the enemy. you see it exemplified in the Amish response after the Nickel Mines shooting. I understand Heather's response very well. heather is not Mennonite, but there are other Christians who practice this kind of radical forgiveness. First, you forgive because you are a follower of Jesus and he forgave his enemies. You are taught this in church and you want to be more and more like Christ, so you conform yourself to that ideal. you might not feel it in your heart but you pray that God would help you to forgive. I believe that Heather is forgiving out of obedience to God, but also she has been taught that when you do this you disarm evil and are able to be empowered. the secular psychology angle of it, how it frees you from the bonds of anger. BUT there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. I forgive my stepdad for abusing me. i do not have a relationship with him because his behavior continues to be unhealthy and hurtful for me. I have never heard Heather say that she does not forgive her sister. I've only heard her say she does not have a relationship with her.

I know that there are other ways of being Christian and other interpretations of following Christ, but I am very familiar with Heather's response here. I have seen that sense of detachment or peace or resignation, whatever you want to call it in many, many friends and family members with regards to trauma. I'm not saying it is the right way to be a Christian or the right way/wrong way to respond, I'm just saying in some cultures (and I do believe different churches are like different cultures) it is normal.

I hope I am not out of line by saying that you are the person of faith that I wish all people of faith were. This world would be a better place. And I am sorry for the abuse you endured.


ETA: I don't think Misty killed the girls, though so not sure what there is for Heather to forgive regarding Misty?

 

[B4igo2it]

It is hard to be a friend to a drug addict and/or alcoholic because they steal everything they can from those who love them. It is especially hard when it is a family member because you witness that person victimize each family member ... one by one. They think it is okay because "we are family" and "we love one another" and "they believe in me" and .... whatever justification they come up with.
Sometimes it is just easier to remove these people from your life, even though you love them so much ... even if they are your sister. There comes a time when enough is enough, no more excuses, no more opportunities to become victimized again by someone you love. Besides, it hurts to stand by and watch someone in total denial continue to make the wrong decisions and mess up their life while hurting those who love them the most.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Thank you so much for explaining this...and this is exactly what I would expect from such a tragic situation.

Which is why it completely baffles me that Heather explains she "gave it to God" and forgave this person the day they were taken.

I simply can NOT comprehend it. Can't.

I'm not being flip at all but it's possible that Heather is smarter than I am or had better guidance than I did. Better guidance wouldn't be difficult to beat since it was at least 10 years before I told anyone about the rape and so I was just figuring it out for myself as I went along.

All I really know is that we all do the best we can with what we have in us at the time and that Heather is no exception to the rule.

 

[SpringThyme]

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/grieving-parents-risk-early-death-study/t/story?id=14467734

Grieving parents risk early death.

 

[nikb]

I come from a faith tradition (Mennonite) with a very strong emphasis on forgiving the enemy. you see it exemplified in the Amish response after the Nickel Mines shooting. I understand Heather's response very well. heather is not Mennonite, but there are other Christians who practice this kind of radical forgiveness. First, you forgive because you are a follower of Jesus and he forgave his enemies. You are taught this in church and you want to be more and more like Christ, so you conform yourself to that ideal. you might not feel it in your heart but you pray that God would help you to forgive. I believe that Heather is forgiving out of obedience to God, but also she has been taught that when you do this you disarm evil and are able to be empowered. the secular psychology angle of it, how it frees you from the bonds of anger. BUT there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. I forgive my stepdad for abusing me. i do not have a relationship with him because his behavior continues to be unhealthy and hurtful for me. I have never heard Heather say that she does not forgive her sister. I've only heard her say she does not have a relationship with her.

I know that there are other ways of being Christian and other interpretations of following Christ, but I am very familiar with Heather's response here. I have seen that sense of detachment or peace or resignation, whatever you want to call it in many, many friends and family members with regards to trauma. I'm not saying it is the right way to be a Christian or the right way/wrong way to respond, I'm just saying in some cultures (and I do believe different churches are like different cultures) it is normal.

Thank you so much for sharing this. I must admit I'm one who just can't fathom the way she's handling this. I'm not being critical of Heather, it's just so hard for me to understand. It helped hearing the religious aspect explained from your history and perspective. I've always been happy for people who can find a way to cope when awful things happen. Maybe even a little jealous since my mind doesn't work like that. I do hope she's truly as okay as she seems in some of her interviews.

Jumping off... like others I wish we'd hear from Misty, Tammy, and Wylma too. I know they don't owe any of us anything, but I do think about them and wonder how they're doing.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook Morrissey Case Archive:

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/cr...6&page=1&_suid=137942503771004823801667237065

 

[dotr]

14 year old abducted by 2 men in Georgia today...

ACTIVE SEARCH GA - Amber Alert: Ayvani Perez, 14, Ellenwood, 17 Sep 2013 - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[iamnotagolem]

I understand the logic behind forgiving someone so as to not have the grievance against you weighing down your heart. Carrying around anger and hatred in your heart is bad for your mental and physical health and will take it's toll. But when you forgive someone in your heart, this does not mean that you have to forgive them publicly or even outwardly.

Forgiving someone so as to not hold onto the anger doesn't mean you can't still seek justice or want justice.

I think it would be hard to openly forgive someone without knowing who the offender is/was. Hypothetically speaking (and I don't believe this to be the case) what if Misty killed the girls? Would Heather still forgive Misty for killing them, but not for her drug habits? What if it was Tammy? What if it was Drew? Is the blanket forgiveness still on the table?

It's a tragic situation to be dealing with and I can't imagine their pain, frustration and anger. It's frustrating for those of us following the case because we want justice, too. There is understandable frustration that Drew & Heather never spoke out, were hidden from the media while the searches for the girls were happening. Maybe that was when their grief and pain was most unbearable which prevented them from publicly asking for help finding their daughter and niece.

The truth is there is no right or wrong answer, we all want the truth and justice until then we only speculate and look for answers where there may be none.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I received an update via Vinelink that Dan has been moved. He's currently at
Iowa Medical & Classification Center. I believe it was Grainne Dhu that said this would be his first stop.

https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/siteInfoAction.do?siteId=16000