IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[Aymstriss]

I just want to make something clear...

I don't necessarily think DM did it. I think the abduction/murder was initiated because of the drugs situation.

Too many hinky things. The request for the closed hearing and just the fact that the motion was ordered/approved reinforces my thoughts.

 

[alliemay]

well what a coinkydink! I still feel that DM made this happen the day before his hearing so it would be delayed which it was; he may have tried to desperately save himself and sacrifice the life of these two children. The fact that no Sexual Assualt occurred also leads me to believe that this was a caretaker who killed them. I dk how long the records in this case are going to be sealed, and it does sound like possibly the meth and the crowd that meth brings *in any shape or form* could have something to do with it. Mainly; I think it was the case against DM.

Maybe they will deny the request to close the court room? Court rooms are open to the public for a reason. I Dont Care if it turns into a circus; it should be aired live. At this juncture I care not what "DM" wants or needs.

We can all speculate, that's the good thing about WS. I am only commenting on this because you said you didn't care if it turns into a circus, and that you didn't care what DM wanted, which made me feel your post was in reference to mine.

Personally, I really don't care what DM wants either , I was just thinking that if I were a judge, I would not want any disruptions in my court room while I was trying to listen to the cases in front of me.

 

[iamnotagolem]

well what a coinkydink! I still feel that DM made this happen the day before his hearing so it would be delayed which it was; he may have tried to desperately save himself and sacrifice the life of these two children. The fact that no Sexual Assualt occurred also leads me to believe that this was a caretaker who killed them. I dk how long the records in this case are going to be sealed, and it does sound like possibly the meth and the crowd that meth brings *in any shape or form* could have something to do with it. Mainly; I think it was the case against DM.

Maybe they will deny the request to close the court room? Court rooms are open to the public for a reason. I Dont Care if it turns into a circus; it should be aired live. At this juncture I care not what "DM" wants or needs.

BBM do you have a link for that?

 

[SapphireSteel]

I hear that.

I'm hoping that Friday 13 will be a turning point.

DM is only going for sentencing, right? So what on earth can he have to say that he hasn't already said at trial?

:waitasec:

 

[otto]

I see lots of comments suggesting that Elizabeth Collins was abducted and murdered while cycling on a summer afternoon, then left in a remote, wooded area because ... do I understand this correctly??? ... because the non-custodial father of her cousin is a drug addict?

Can someone please connect the dots for me. What does the drug addict have to do with Elizabeth?

 

[Foxfire]

If there is a more likely suspect, I would love to know who he is and why he's "more likely".

I have been with this since Day One, I have read every theory and not one single thing we have learnt since 13 July 2012 has indicated my theory is wrong.

Not one single piece of information. No suspicious sightings, no guy hanging around the lake, no cars parked where they shouldn't be, nothing from the girls computers or diaries or friends.

To me it is very clear that the girls were sent to the lake, where someone they knew was waiting for them.

There is no "random" to this abduction, never was. The key word here is planning.

MY OPINION ONLY!!!!!

Michael J. Klunder; who had abducted a pair of 3yr olds, sexually assaulted, abducted, and attempted to abduct girls/women since the age of 15 years old.. Because he is a recidivist child predator, who had ties to the area where the bodies were located, and had abducted a pair of girls, murdering KS, while fortunately DH escaped his wrath, only 80 miles away, 10 months later. The list of indictable indicators against MJK is very long, SapphireSteel..

No cars parked where they shouldn't be?

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_bc5363a2-dcf1-11e2-be6a-001a4bcf887a.html

<sniped & BBM>
the Black Hawk County Sheriff&#8217;s Office, investigators have received witness information that a white, older model, full-size SUV-type vehicle was parked on or near the lake along Arbutus Avenue near Meyers Lake on July 13, the day the girls went missing.

&#8220;Earlier on, within the first two or three months of the girls going missing, as we were interviewing people ... a couple of different people identified the vehicle as being on Arbutus,&#8221; Smock said. &#8220;A few months ago, we received some information from another party who had seen a similar vehicle on the east side of the lake.&#8221;

 

[SapphireSteel]

Michael J. Klunder; who had abducted a pair of 3yr olds, sexually assaulted, abducted, and attempted to abduct girls/women since the age of 15 years old.. Because he is a recidivist child predator, who had ties to the area where the bodies were located, and had abducted a pair of girls, murdering KS, while fortunately DH escaped his wrath, only 80 miles away, 10 months later. The list of indictable indicators is very long, SapphireSteel..



http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_bc5363a2-dcf1-11e2-be6a-001a4bcf887a.html

<sniped & BBM>
the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Office, investigators have received witness information that a white, older model, full-size SUV-type vehicle was parked on or near the lake along Arbutus Avenue near Meyers Lake on July 13, the day the girls went missing.

“Earlier on, within the first two or three months of the girls going missing, as we were interviewing people ... a couple of different people identified the vehicle as being on Arbutus,” Smock said. “A few months ago, we received some information from another party who had seen a similar vehicle on the east side of the lake.”

Fox, if there's one thing I know about LE, it's that they deeply enjoy catching a perp.

I just think that if there was even a remote possibility Klunder is involved, they would have said so, by now anyway.

I do think the LE silence is telling though. They are clearly investigating something, we just don't know what.

I have said many times I feel Klunder was a disorganised, impulsive, scattered perp. The girls abduction was just too smooth.

:cow:

 

[Foxfire]

Fox, if there's one thing I know about LE, it's that they deeply enjoy catching a perp.

I just think that if there was even a remote possibility Klunder is involved, they would have said so, by now anyway.

I do think the LE silence is telling though. They are clearly investigating something, we just don't know what.

I have said many times I feel Klunder was a disorganised, impulsive, scattered perp. The girls abduction was just too smooth.

:cow:

SapphireSteel, if DH had not escaped, we could say the same about their abduction and murders. DH kept a cool head and was much older than E & L..

LE's silence could mean many things.. As you know, the FBI has released a timeline & other info to the public in the AK serial killer Israel Keyes' investigation, in an effort to tie him to other abductions/murders.
If MJK has been ruled out, why not seek the public's help and release a timeline and other info on him, in case he has other unknown victims?

 

[threecrazykids]

SapphireSteel, if DH had not escaped, we could say the same about their abduction and murders. DH kept a cool head and was much older than E & L..

LE's silence could mean many things.. As you know, the FBI has released a timeline & other info to the public in the AK serial killer Israel Keyes' investigation, in an effort to tie him to other abductions/murders.
If MJK has been ruled out, why not seek the public's help and release a timeline and other info on him, in case he has other unknown victims?

IMO they aren't going to go out trying to create a fictitious case by trying to press charges to put on a dead man. If there were unsolved cases or reports of attempted/successful abductions, sexual assaults, etc. that would match a vehicle description that Klunder drove or a physical description then maybe...

His face was all over the news, if he was recognized by someone as their attacker I'm sure they would have come forward.

But you are in essence requesting that police go out and throw out an entire timeline of Klunder and hoping that somehow/somewhere, someone has a crime they could potentially tie to him. Keep in mind...his DNA was on file so if there were other unsolved cases that matched him they could.

I'm not following...he's dead, what more would the victim gain by this?

I guess I'm not following.

 

[SapphireSteel]

SapphireSteel, if DH had not escaped, we could say the same about their abduction and murders. DH kept a cool head and was much older than E & L..

LE's silence could mean many things.. As you know, the FBI has released a timeline & other info to the public in the AK serial killer Israel Keyes' investigation, in an effort to tie him to other abductions/murders.
If MJK has been ruled out, why not seek the public's help and release a timeline and other info on him, in case he has other unknown victims?

At a guess, it may be because he has been incarcerated for most of his adult life.

Once he got let out, you can bet he was on parole.

They probably knew where he was. You often don't get parole unless you have stable accommodation, a job, etc...and you certainly don't get it without having to report in every week.

Didn't he also have a wife somewhere along the way? She could possibly have cleared up a lot of the time frame.

 

[Montjoy]

Why are we even discussing Klunder here? I remember Bessie asking that, until LE tied Klunder to this case, the Klunder discussion should take place in his dedicated thread.

Link to Bessie's post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #33

Link to Klunder thread:
IA IA - Michael J Klunder: Violent Sexual Offender, Murderer, and Suspected SK - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[alliemay]

Everyone is free to post their opinions and thoughts on here. It does not mean we all have to agree. I for one, am glad for the people that come here daily or several times a week, it keeps the thread alive.....I also think Bessie asked for snark to be left at the door.

 

[pearl]

Mods, if this post violates TOS, please remove it. I don't think it does so I am going ahead.

My opinion is Dan did not hurt these girls and was not involved in the planning and carrying out of the abduction and deaths. It is also my opinion that the crimes are related somehow to the meth drug culture in Evansdale and surrounding areas. The abduction date and the planned plea bargain date are too much of a coincidence for me to accept. Does Dan now know what happened? I think he does and found out after the fact. Let me say right now that I have no sympathy for drug addicts and dealers. However, I have followed links here on WS that show pictures of Dan. In some pictures, it seems to me, that he looks like he is carrying a heavy burden and will do so until the day he dies. If he knows something, I think he told LE a long time ago. For all we know, he could have been gathering information for LE for quite a while. Hence, the delays in bringing him for sentencing. Whatever happens tomorrow, I pray that God keeps this family close.

 

[Foxfire]

At a guess, it may be because he has been incarcerated for most of his adult life.

Once he got let out, you can bet he was on parole.

They probably knew where he was. You often don't get parole unless you have stable accommodation, a job, etc...and you certainly don't get it without having to report in every week.

Didn't he also have a wife somewhere along the way? She could possibly have cleared up a lot of the time frame.

Chld predator MJ Klunder, wasn't on parole when released from prison.. <modsnip> Have a link?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130522/NEWS/305220072/Klunder-served-time-two-abductions

Iowa Department of Corrections records show Klunder was released from prison Sept. 24, 2010, and transferred to a work release facility in Fort Dodge.

He was never granted parole; he finished his sentence, which had been reduced to about 19 years under Iowa&#8217;s earned-time law, in Fort Dodge and was released Feb. 25, 2011.

Klunder&#8217;s address listed in the sex offender registry is about three blocks from Stratford Elementary School. According to the registry, Klunder had to report to the local sheriff&#8217;s office twice a year but faced no restrictions with regard to living near parks or schools.

 

[Foxfire]

IMO they aren't going to go out trying to create a fictitious case by trying to press charges to put on a dead man. If there were unsolved cases or reports of attempted/successful abductions, sexual assaults, etc. that would match a vehicle description that Klunder drove or a physical description then maybe...

His face was all over the news, if he was recognized by someone as their attacker I'm sure they would have come forward.

But you are in essence requesting that police go out and throw out an entire timeline of Klunder and hoping that somehow/somewhere, someone has a crime they could potentially tie to him. Keep in mind...his DNA was on file so if there were other unsolved cases that matched him they could.

I'm not following...he's dead, what more would the victim gain by this?

I guess I'm not following.

The not knowing is the worst for the families of the missing/murdered victims, threecrazykids.

Missing, Murdered and Unidentified Persons - YouTube

 

[Dee10]

I am really torn on this case. A drug addict to me, indicates daily survival to get their drug in any manner necessary including selling your child. I haven't ruled that out, but I am not leaning that way. I don't think I will have an opinion until it has been confirmed IF they were sexually assaulted. It is extremely rare for two girls to be kidnapped, sexually assaulted & murdered, let alone not. That one horrific (missing) detail....is extremely important. Will ck in tomorrow to see if there is any news though.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Dan already plead guilty in the DV case with Misty from what 2008? That was done 6/26/13. He rec'd 60 days in jail, fines etc...Will that charge add to his sentencing as an aggrivating factor as well as his previous sentencings? I am pretty sure they will, but don't know Iowa law except they don't release much being a Sunshine Law State.

I don't want any parent harming their children or others but it does happen. Here I truely hope it hasn't. Someone did though and there isn't enough to go by even with court dockets to read & local gossip.

I'll keep on Klunder, JJB & suspects that I check at random until I'm tired finally one day, I suppose or the law speaks up.

May Lyric & Elizabeth know they have many people following. RIP.

 

[nikb]

I am really torn on this case. A drug addict to me, indicates daily survival to get their drug in any manner necessary including selling your child. I haven't ruled that out, but I am not leaning that way. I don't think I will have an opinion until it has been confirmed IF they were sexually assaulted. It is extremely rare for two girls to be kidnapped, sexually assaulted & murdered, let alone not. That one horrific (missing) detail....is extremely important. Will ck in tomorrow to see if there is any news though.

And selling your relative's child, also? I can't get past the fact that it was Elizabeth's neighborhood, not Lyric's.

I'm with you, I don't have a strong opinion either. I kind of wish I did. That missing "detail" is huge IMO. I actually wasn't even thinking sexual assault until Elizabeth's parents were so set on going after sex offenders. I hope we learn something more tomorrow/later today.

 

[BunnyHop]

What time in court today? TIA

 

[threecrazykids]

What time in court today? TIA

I believe 10ish am CT if memory serves me correctly...with the first part of the hearing closed in judges chambers.

I still don't understand how todays sentencing is going to bring any new information to light. I guess I'm just missing something about the court process that others know.

For one...I don't understand why/how there is going to be "testimony" during a sentencing hearing. I thought a sentencing hearing was just that - you've been charged/found guilty - here's your punishment. Why is there still testimony being given from "investigators" at this point in the process?

Also...I have to assume that any revealing information or "bomb drop" is going to be disclosed behind closed doors, so we won't know what that is - nor would anyone else who isn't already privy to that information.

If any revealing information is there, LE already has it - I don't think anything would be revealed today by investigators that wouldn't already be known and worked through...JMO.