IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #35

[hambirg]

IMHO they have not released COD or MOD because that might possibly be something that only the killer would know, kwim?

I understanding wanting to know. I sure do. But I understand why they haven't shared it.

I agree about the timing and urgency about missing RSO's. Often times in these cases we have to go more with what LE does than what they say. . .because they don't say much. . .but watch the timing of what they do.

 

[alliemay]

If it's something only the killer would know, and if the killer was MK then I guess it would be something he took to his gave. Maybe that's another reason why I do not feel he did it.

 

[hambirg]

If it something only the killer would know, and if the killer was MK then I guess it would be something he took to his gave. Maybe that's another reason why I do not feel he did it.

This is MOO, but this is the way I see it. If it was Klunder, they have to be able to be 100% certain it was him. I just don't think they're there yet. If they knew he was ruled out, I think they would be more forthcoming. They don't seem too concerned that their might be a dangerous child killer on the loose. That only really leaves two options.

I do think things were a bit botched in the beginning of this investigation. I understand having to drain the lake, but did they have to wait with other angles while they did that? Did they really think both girls went into the lake, fully clothed and with their shoes on, and drown? Come on!

 

[nikb]

IMHO they have not released COD or MOD because that might possibly be something that only the killer would know, kwim?

I understanding wanting to know. I sure do. But I understand why they haven't shared it.

I agree about the timing and urgency about missing RSO's. Often times in these cases we have to go more with what LE does than what they say. . .because they don't say much. . .but watch the timing of what they do.

BBM totally agreed. I didn't think it was an RSO (or not-yet-registered SO) crime until this whole focus happened, particularly from the Collins family. If they have no idea who did it, why suddenly focus on unregistered SOs? Was it just random to focus on these people? I don't think it's a bad cause by any means, but it seems strange they'd just pick it randomly.

For the girls' sake I hope it wasn't an RSO, or SO.. I'd far prefer to think they were happy up until whatever happened, and that whatever caused them to die happened quickly rather than think of them suffering. Unfortunately logic tells me that is probably not the case. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Dr. Know?]

This is MOO, but this is the way I see it. If it was Klunder, they have to be able to be 100% certain it was him. I just don't think they're there yet. If they knew he was ruled out, I think they would be more forthcoming. They don't seem too concerned that their might be a dangerous child killer on the loose. That only really leaves two options.

I do think things were a bit botched in the beginning of this investigation. I understand having to drain the lake, but did they have to wait with other angles while they did that? Did they really think both girls went into the lake, fully clothed and with their shoes on, and drown? Come on!

Thanks Hambirg. You got me searching back again...

I don't think they held off as much as many think though. I read back then that during the shutdown and draining at Myers Lake, there were on about 5 or so people overseeing it, that's LE wise. All others were searching the dump & from the scanner and listening to it, they were busy with FBI serving search warrants etc... One of them was not even LE as he had the pump equipment to drain the lake. I'll have to check back to refresh my memory though for names, etc...yes, I know Evansdale PD is small.

 

[Squeeze]

Thanks Hambirg. You got me searching back again...

I don't think they held off as much as many think though. I read back then that during the shutdown and draining at Myers Lake, there were on about 5 or so people overseeing it, that's LE wise. All others were searching the dump & from the scanner and listening to it, they were busy with FBI serving search warrants etc... One of them was not even LE as he had the pump equipment to drain the lake. I'll have to check back to refresh my memory though for names, etc...yes, I know Evansdale PD is small.

I agree. There were lots of LE on the case, not just those at the lake. I think the draining of the lake was a welcome distraction. While the media and public was watching that, they were able to do other things, unencumbered.

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[carbuff]

I agree. There were lots of LE on the case, not just those at the lake. I think the draining of the lake was a welcome distraction. While the media and public was watching that, they were able to do other things, unencumbered.

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I wasn't following Elizabeth and Lyric at the very beginning -- I came here when the case was mentioned during the search for Jessica Ridgway. I remember there was extensive investigation about whether there could be a connection. The FBI took the possibility seriously.

In a small police department like Evansdale, they're not going to be able to do all the investigating. Much of it would have been done by the Iowa state police, county authorities, FBI, officers on loan from other agencies, etc.

 

[Just Pat 22]

HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL YOU DEVOTED SLEUTHER"S I PRAY YOU ALL HAVE A SAFE ,Healthy ,HAPPY ONE . Thank you all for the devotion and love you have shown to "Our GIRL's without a doubt you have been most faithfully standing by and keeping their Thread Open . GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND THE MODERATORS

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder how useful it really is for LE to hold back details, such as cause of death, potential weapon, etc.
There may be people who noticed a weapon missing from their home suddenly, with a lame excuse provided, or a set of clothing gone, or shoes, etc. But not knowing what to look for, most people do not think like those of us here. People need to be told (repeatedly) what to look for. I.e absences from work or home, car cleaning or replacing, clothing missing, change of appearance, all things obvious to us, but not to most.
JMO

 

[carbuff]

I wonder how useful it really is for LE to hold back details, such as cause of death, potential weapon, etc.
There may be people who noticed a weapon missing from their home suddenly, with a lame excuse provided, or a set of clothing gone, or shoes, etc. But not knowing what to look for, most people do not think like those of us here. People need to be told (repeatedly) what to look for. I.e absences from work or home, car cleaning or replacing, clothing missing, change of appearance, all things obvious to us, but not to most.
JMO

That's true, but on the other hand, if you tell people to look for something, they *will* see it, whether it was there or not. It's a tricky balance.

 

[hambirg]

Thanks Hambirg. You got me searching back again...

I don't think they held off as much as many think though. I read back then that during the shutdown and draining at Myers Lake, there were on about 5 or so people overseeing it, that's LE wise. All others were searching the dump & from the scanner and listening to it, they were busy with FBI serving search warrants etc... One of them was not even LE as he had the pump equipment to drain the lake. I'll have to check back to refresh my memory though for names, etc...yes, I know Evansdale PD is small.

That may very well be. It's been sometime now and I'm fuzzy on the details. I do remember that it felt slow in the beginning. . .and the tone didn't really change for several days.

I'm not sure if it would have mattered much. If this really was Klunder, I think by the time they found the bikes, it would have likely been too late. I would like to know if they ever considered Klunder early on. We obviously didn't have the knowledge of his last crime at that time. However, he was a known RSO that had taken two victims at once previously. Did they ever consider him before his final crime?

 

[threecrazykids]

That may very well be. It's been sometime now and I'm fuzzy on the details. I do remember that it felt slow in the beginning. . .and the tone didn't really change for several days.

I'm not sure if it would have mattered much. If this really was Klunder, I think by the time they found the bikes, it would have likely been too late. I would like to know if they ever considered Klunder early on. We obviously didn't have the knowledge of his last crime at that time. However, he was a known RSO that had taken two victims at once previously. Did they ever consider him before his final crime?

Sadly, no....that was a huge discussion earlier. How LE missed it. The cop who immediately "thought" of him when K&D were kidnapped also "thought" he was still in jail.

Klunder wasn't on LE's radar at all for E&L until his most recent crime.

 

[threecrazykids]

That's true, but on the other hand, if you tell people to look for something, they *will* see it, whether it was there or not. It's a tricky balance.

Not to mention we're slowly approaching 2 years since their abduction. I would venture to bet things that people WOULD have noticed or remembered could possibly be forgotten. It's only going to get worse as time goes on. Memories fade - especially with things people don't know are "significant". They may not remember or even WANT to recollect a small detail they may have found strange at the time the girls went missing.

IMO LE doesn't need a SMALL detail to break this case wide open. I think they likely have more small pieces than they can shake a stick at...what they need is a BIG detail that ties it all together.

 

[Squeeze]

That may very well be. It's been sometime now and I'm fuzzy on the details. I do remember that it felt slow in the beginning. . .and the tone didn't really change for several days.

I'm not sure if it would have mattered much. If this really was Klunder, I think by the time they found the bikes, it would have likely been too late. I would like to know if they ever considered Klunder early on. We obviously didn't have the knowledge of his last crime at that time. However, he was a known RSO that had taken two victims at once previously. Did they ever consider him before his final crime?

It definitely was not slow in the beginning. Hundreds of people were out looking, walking, on four wheelers, looking everywhere the next day and fir several days. Hundreds. Lots of LE. A plane with infrared equipment. Not slow at all. Granted, it may have been too late by then.

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[Squeeze]

That's true, but on the other hand, if you tell people to look for something, they *will* see it, whether it was there or not. It's a tricky balance.

Agree. I also think that this information really isn't needed at this point.

 

[Just Pat 22]

Not to mention we're slowly approaching 2 years since their abduction. I would venture to bet things that people WOULD have noticed or remembered could possibly be forgotten. It's only going to get worse as time goes on. Memories fade - especially with things people don't know are "significant". They may not remember or even WANT to recollect a small detail they may have found strange at the time the girls went missing.

IMO LE doesn't need a SMALL detail to break this case wide open. I think they likely have more small pieces than they can shake a stick at...what they need is a BIG detail that ties it all together.

TCK You are right the memories fade as we loose time on this case .The LE should give us some bit of information for us to chew on so to speak but, nothing to wrap our heads into they leave us just rehashing old thing's then that is when we re read the pages a see what's been missed .And it alway's surprise's us.

 

[Just Pat 22]

There was an LE that knew of Klunder's evil past thought of the Cousin's and he thought that Klunder was locked up he had no idea he was out free do do as he wished .He was shocked when he heard Klunder in the news again with Kathryn Sheppard and D

 

[tlcya]

just checking for updates. have not forgotten our cousins

I have to believe that one day we will know and see prosecution of the person responsible.

 

[cluciano63]

For me, better to have too many tips and suspects, than not enough...

 

[Marilynilpa]

Sadly, no....that was a huge discussion earlier. How LE missed it. The cop who immediately "thought" of him when K&D were kidnapped also "thought" he was still in jail.

Klunder wasn't on LE's radar at all for E&L until his most recent crime.

Even though I don't believe Klunder is involved with this case, I still believe LE should have had him on their radar re: Lyric and Elizabeth. JMO.