IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #36

[iamnotagolem]

So, how many of us think Smock may have messed up this investigation in some way?

It's definitely a concern of mine. Especially knowing his close relationship with E's parents. I'd guess his inability to keep his personal & professional life separate may have effected the case.

 

[threecrazykids]

How can someone really have their mind where it SHOULD be with all of this going on amongst the people who should be working together, not against each other? If the rumors that Smock's relationship with a co-workers wife is true, then I find it hard to believe there wasn't a plethora of distractions.

This too, is going to likely come up if anyone is ever charged in this crime...along with the crime lab drama. Defense attorneys are going to have a field day if it's found relevant and allowed in court.

At this point, I probably shouldn't worry about court...we need competent, dedicated, trustworthy investigators on the case just to get an arrest first.

 

[Bootsctr]

"Texting and phone constantly ringing" in an office environment is distracting to everyone in that office. I'm glad the officers took a united stand. Especially at this time in our country's history, as I look as what is happening across the country, we need to be able to trust our local law enforcement officers, detectives, town officials, mayors, governors, state senators, etc. all the way up to the FBI, DEA, etc. al. that they are going to serve the people in a just manner. I believe the saying goes, "there are always a few bad eggs in the bunch." Hopefully, Smock was "the bad egg" and now an arrest can be made for Lyric and Lizzy.

I hope Smock wasn't lying about this (maybe the person doing leg work didn't get the credit for their hard work although I certainly don't believe detectives do what they do for recognition - it would pizz me off knowing someone fooling around on the job was getting credit for when someone else personally did the grunt work):

Article dated 02/04/2015 (sbm)

"The conference came after Smock and an Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation agent traveled last week to Virginia to meet experts with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. Marshals Service to review the case.

Smock deflected most questions about the investigation and recommendations from the panel of experts. However, all of the experts agreed that Seven Bridges was a "very important part of the investigation," he said. The panel of experts was complimentary of the investigative work done by local authorities, he said.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...wa-girls-case-focus-wilderness-area/22794367/


This article doesn't pertain directly to Lyric and Lizzy's case, but I am adding a link to an article regarding the FBI admitting flaws in hair analysis over decades:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fb...s-in-nearly-all-trials-before-2000/ar-AAbgTt6

Federal authorities launched the investigation in 2012 after The Washington Post reported that flawed forensic hair matches might have led to the convictions of hundreds of potentially innocent people since at least the 1970s, typically for murder, rape and other violent crimes nationwide.

The review confirmed that FBI experts systematically testified to the near-certainty of “matches” of crime-scene hairs to defendants, backing their claims by citing incomplete or misleading statistics drawn from their case work.

In reality, there is no accepted research on how often hair from different people may appear the same. Since 2000, the lab has used visual hair comparison to rule out someone as a possible source of hair or in combination with more accurate DNA testing."

We always think of LE being the good guys in the white hats, and I certainly believe for the most part it is true; although, that one bad egg can certainly leave a bad taste in a lot of citizens' mouths for a long time and if you can't trust the good guys... who can you trust?

P.S.: My apologies for such a long post. I'm very frustrated in this case and several others... :gaah:

 

[Marilynilpa]

Okay, gang, I have thought about Smock's firing a little more. While I am worried that there have been mistakes made in this case, I am hopeful that EVERYTHING from day one will be reinvestigated, including any relationships Smock may have had with any of the family members, close family friends, etc. Was anyone ruled "above suspicion" by Smock and, therefore, not investigated properly? A complete internal investigation of the case from A to Z might just be what it takes to shake loose a clue that might lead to solving the case. Many of us have invested a lot of ourselves in Lizzy and Lyric, and there needs to be some kind of resolution.

I wonder if Smock's transgressions have all come to light?

Hey, locals, what is the community's take on Smock's firing?

 

[iamnotagolem]

Okay, gang, I have thought about Smock's firing a little more. While I am worried that there have been mistakes made in this case, I am hopeful that EVERYTHING from day one will be reinvestigated, including any relationships Smock may have had with any of the family members, close family friends, etc. Was anyone ruled "above suspicion" by Smock and, therefore, not investigated properly? A complete internal investigation of the case from A to Z might just be what it takes to shake loose a clue that might lead to solving the case. Many of us have invested a lot of ourselves in Lizzy and Lyric, and there needs to be some kind of resolution.

I wonder if Smock's transgressions have all come to light?

Hey, locals, what is the community's take on Smock's firing?

Thanks wasn't enough. Absolutely 100% agree with everything you wrote.

They need to start fresh. Start with family, work their way out.

 

[carbuff]

My hinky meter is going off, and it's not about family members he might have been friends with, either.

 

[Marilynilpa]

My hinky meter is going off, and it's not about family members he might have been friends with, either.

Can you share?

 

[carbuff]

Let's just say it's related to why the initial search focused so intensely on the pond, and my gut feel that the bikes were staged there in the first place...

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Maybe the lake has nothing to do with the girls... "look over there"

 

[threecrazykids]

I feel the same way I think (not sure what your thoughts are). Although, I don't think someone ELSE staged the bikes there...I think the girls WERE there and were instructed to leave their bikes. I think they were sent to the lake in some shape or form...not sure how, but I don't believe those girls ventured there on their own.

Aunt Tammy's "gut feeling" of "take me to the lake" never sat right with me, or the statements made about what apparently happened once there. Wylma stated she and her grandson had been to the lake already (albeit just to the parking lot area) and didn't see them. However, Tammy just has this gut feeling to go there, and "jumps out of the car and starts asking random people" (one of which was supposedly running, another story had someone fishing).

If someone was running around the lake what are the odds they would STILL be there and had seen the girls 15 mins prior? I guess I am assuming that the lake's 3/4 circle would be part of a longer run...not a continual run, as the trail doesn't go all the way around the lake. You'd either stop in the parking lot and turn around and go back, or would have ventured onto the streets. I guess I wouldn't have expected someone to still be there (and have seen them 15 mins prior) if they were really just running through the park.

Also, one story had them going west, the next time, east. But yet, she never reports actually following those directions either way - she herself doesn't walk around the lake. She stays in the parking lot until LE show up and guess what's there. The bikes. Huh...what are the odds?

Breault did state there was a "person who runs regularly around the lake" who could pinpoint the time - but I always assumed that person saw the bikes, not the girls. NOTHING ever came about this fisherman who Tammy apparently spoke to, nor TG. All stated they saw the bikes EXCEPT for this person who Tammy spoke with but that's never been confirmed since Breault stated multiple times that "since we have no confirmed sightings at the lake we can't be certain they were there". Just like the comments made about the dogs catching scent - it was "extremely likely they were there" but nothing confirmed.

I do think they were there...I think that is where they were taken from...but I personally don't think it was random. I think those girls were exactly where they were supposed to be, WHEN they were supposed to be.

All just my opinion on the info I have as of now...of course if something new comes to light, I could change that opinion. But right now, that's where I sit.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I feel the same way I think (not sure what your thoughts are). Although, I don't think someone ELSE staged the bikes there...I think the girls WERE there and were instructed to leave their bikes. I think they were sent to the lake in some shape or form...not sure how, but I don't believe those girls ventured there on their own.

Aunt Tammy's "gut feeling" of "take me to the lake" never sat right with me, or the statements made about what apparently happened once there. Wylma stated she and her grandson had been to the lake already (albeit just to the parking lot area) and didn't see them. However, Tammy just has this gut feeling to go there, and "jumps out of the car and starts asking random people" (one of which was supposedly running, another story had someone fishing).

If someone was running around the lake what are the odds they would STILL be there and had seen the girls 15 mins prior? I guess I am assuming that the lake's 3/4 circle would be part of a longer run...not a continual run, as the trail doesn't go all the way around the lake. You'd either stop in the parking lot and turn around and go back, or would have ventured onto the streets. I guess I wouldn't have expected someone to still be there (and have seen them 15 mins prior) if they were really just running through the park.

Also, one story had them going west, the next time, east. But yet, she never reports actually following those directions either way - she herself doesn't walk around the lake. She stays in the parking lot until LE show up and guess what's there. The bikes. Huh...what are the odds?

Breault did state there was a "person who runs regularly around the lake" who could pinpoint the time - but I always assumed that person saw the bikes, not the girls. NOTHING ever came about this fisherman who Tammy apparently spoke to, nor TG. All stated they saw the bikes EXCEPT for this person who Tammy spoke with but that's never been confirmed since Breault stated multiple times that "since we have no confirmed sightings at the lake we can't be certain they were there". Just like the comments made about the dogs catching scent - it was "extremely likely they were there" but nothing confirmed.

I do think they were there...I think that is where they were taken from...but I personally don't think it was random. I think those girls were exactly where they were supposed to be, WHEN they were supposed to be.

All just my opinion on the info I have as of now...of course if something new comes to light, I could change that opinion. But right now, that's where I sit.

Wow, we are in total agreement on every point!

 

[carbuff]

Maybe the lake has nothing to do with the girls... "look over there"

Yes, exactly.

And the kind of authority figure who the girls would go with unquestioningly.

 

[watcher9]

I still think the girls biked to the lake on their own and only planned to stay a minute - maybe putting their hands in the water or throwing rocks - before heading back home. We heard that they stopped for directions to the lake at the Fareway Grocery on S Evans Rd and were seen on Gilbert Dr going past the watering lawn man who lives at the corner on Lake Ave toward the bike trail that comes out at Arbutus near the lake.

The unknown man who had been sitting in the truck on Arbutus Avenue for some time saw them and to his delight devised a plan on the spur of the moment to take the girls.

I believe he followed them and confronted them in an authoritative voice to come with him because they were in trouble for whatever reason - being too young to be there, throwing rocks, getting past the gate, etc. They obeyed because they knew they weren't supposed to be there.

I think LE needs to look again at this case from the beginning. Right now, my gut feeling doesn't believe any of the family were involved. They should re-interview the Fairway employees, the yard watering guy, everyone at the lake and the witnesses who saw the truck on Arbutus. They also need to review all the videos available for signs of the girls and/or the truck or something else that would break this case open. This would mean any video from any building, business or residence on ANY road, not just the ones that were on their suspected path.

 

[Patience]

They stopped for directions to the lake at the Fairway grocery store? How did I miss that? How many people saw and or overheard this? Someone could of followed them there and accused them of stealing while at the grocery store and the girls would of gone with them thinking thy were in trouble.

 

[threecrazykids]

They stopped for directions to the lake at the Fairway grocery store? How did I miss that? How many people saw and or overheard this? Someone could of followed them there and accused them of stealing while at the grocery store and the girls would of gone with them thinking thy were in trouble.

It should be mentioned that the "stopping for directions" was technically a rumor. On one of the FB support pages (while the girls were missing) there was a woman who stated her son worked at the Fareway store. She claimed that LE had been in there on more than one occasion to speak to employees, as the girls had reportedly stopped along the bike trail and asked for directions. Reportedly it happened at the back of the Fareway store where they take their breaks - the bike trail runs right next to this area. This was never mentioned by police or anything of the sort...but, some of us have deemed this a reliable source as there seemed to be quite a few specifics that at least appeared to sound like this person wasn't fabricating. But again...never verified by LE so take it as a rumor for now.

 

[watcher9]

They stopped for directions to the lake at the Fairway grocery store? How did I miss that? How many people saw and or overheard this? Someone could of followed them there and accused them of stealing while at the grocery store and the girls would of gone with them thinking thy were in trouble.

I don't believe they went in the store.
If I remember correctly, a mother came forward saying her son and a couple of other employees were standing outside the Fareway Grocery back exit when they were approached by the girls asking for directions to the lake.

Looking at a google map, it looks like the exit may be on the side closest to S Evans Rd. Originally, we were thinking the girls rode the bike trail all the way down and passed the grocery on their right. Going down the bike trail, you could see the "dead" side of the grocery store. There is a fence on that side right next to the store but no door that I could see. There is also a big empty grassy land space between that fence and the bike trail which seems to me would hinder the girls seeing and approaching the boys if they done so from the bike trail.

I think that their story was discounted when it came out as it didn't agree with the suspected time line - that maybe it had happened another day? I can't remember now.

Just a thought - what if the girls had asked about the way to the lake at another time but didn't make the trip at that time? Maybe the girls decided at the last second to try it after grandma said they could have one more ride before they had to leave? That would almost eliminate any person trying to meet them at the lake and could also make the boy's story true.

 

[carbuff]

There were at least a couple of sightings -- that one and Mr. G come to mind--that were apparently (according to what was made public) dismissed because they didn't match the official time line. I would hope they'd go back to revisit that as well.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I wonder how much surveillance video LE received from the public? IIRC, people were asked to turn over anything they had. Of course we all know about the auction house video, but I don't know of any other video capturing the girls that day. Seems like if the Gateway rumor was true, there might have been video of the girls. JMO.

I feel certain the girls went to the lake that day for a reason, that they knew how to get there, and were taken by someone they knew, leaving the bikes behind. I don't think the bikes were staged.

But I still wonder how Lizzy's purse wound up away from the bikes.

 

[roseofsharon]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/wylma-cook-iowa-cousins_n_1699780.html

The neighbourhood streets around the Collins' home appear to be very open. The cctv at CA has the girls riding past the camera at 12:11 p.m. and JP said this clock was 8 minutes slow, so the girls rode past the clock at 12:19 p.m. heading toward River Forest Road.

I find it so strange that WC left the Collins' home at 12:30 p.m. driving around the neighbourhood and in 11 minutes, the girls had disappeared.

moo

 

[Marilynilpa]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/wylma-cook-iowa-cousins_n_1699780.html

The neighbourhood streets around the Collins' home appear to be very open. The cctv at CA has the girls riding past the camera at 12:11 p.m. and JP said this clock was 8 minutes slow, so the girls rode past the clock at 12:19 p.m. heading toward River Forest Road.

I find it so strange that WC left the Collins' home at 12:30 p.m. driving around the neighbourhood and in 11 minutes, the girls had disappeared.

moo

The timeline on this case has always puzzled me. I have re-read transcripts and news articles and it is confusing about who did what, and at what time. JMO