IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #36

[roseofsharon]

ITA. It's so hard to work with timelines if they aren't the facts. I re-read the the transcript of the night NG talked with MM and WC. WC said she left the Collins' home with her grandson at 12:30 p.m. to search for the girls.

I agree with Otto (paraphrasing) that the girls were probably taken close to River Forest Road and Brovan Blvd. I think the perp had seen the girls riding on previous occasions and possibly knew EC because she was such a friendly little girl. The perp gained their trust.

Because it appears like the girls are riding quickly on Brovan, the perp may have challenged them to see how fast they could ride (around the block) to get back to his/her house.

imo

 

[threecrazykids]

https://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/lyric-cook-and-elizabeth-collins/

Per this Iowa Cold Case Summary the girls were apparently seen at 12:23 on Brovan. That is 8 minutes AFTER the apparent 12:15 sighting by Grandma. Maybe that is where the 8 minute difference is coming from on the auction house CCTV?

Then, it also states that they were spotted between 12:30 and 1 on Gilbert Drive.

Now...Grandma left at 12:30 to go find them...and WENT TO MEYERS LAKE, and Elk Run, and to "all the other parks and areas" in town and didn't see anyone.

We have TG who was at the back of the lake and coming around to go towards the restrooms at this exact same time, but he reportedly only saw the bikes.

If they were on Brovan at 12:23 it would seem very unlikely to me that TG saw just their bikes at 12:27 behind the lake. I don't know how he couldn't have seen those girls coming off the bike trail into the Arbutus area...the timing is literally within the seconds they would have ran smack dab into each other.

I get sucked in over and over on these details. I just need to give up on the timeline...so frustrating.

 

[iamnotagolem]

https://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/lyric-cook-and-elizabeth-collins/

Per this Iowa Cold Case Summary the girls were apparently seen at 12:23 on Brovan. That is 8 minutes AFTER the apparent 12:15 sighting by Grandma. Maybe that is where the 8 minute difference is coming from on the auction house CCTV?

Then, it also states that they were spotted between 12:30 and 1 on Gilbert Drive.

Now...Grandma left at 12:30 to go find them...and WENT TO MEYERS LAKE, and Elk Run, and to "all the other parks and areas" in town and didn't see anyone.

We have TG who was at the back of the lake and coming around to go towards the restrooms at this exact same time, but he reportedly only saw the bikes.

If they were on Brovan at 12:23 it would seem very unlikely to me that TG saw just their bikes at 12:27 behind the lake. I don't know how he couldn't have seen those girls coming off the bike trail into the Arbutus area...the timing is literally within the seconds they would have ran smack dab into each other.

I get sucked in over and over on these details. I just need to give up on the timeline...so frustrating.

LE has never used TGs timeline, almost seems like they dismiss his existence. Which is odd. So maybe the bikes he described weren't the girls, since he says they were laying in the trail and the person that found them said they were leaning against the fence. I guess that leaves us with a. TG didn't see the girls' bikes b. he's lying? c. he rode by precisely when they were being kidnapped, kidnapper came back and sat the bikes up?

I'm with you, the timeline is frustrating, confusing, and probably not accurate.

I hope they assign a new lead for this case, they start all over from the beginning, interview each of the family members separately and clear them one at a time. Verify all of their alibis and not place anyone "above suspicion".

 

[Cherry]

It would be really nice to know that LE checked out every single receipt from that grocery store that day, around that time. Someone from inside that store could have followed them or heard they were going to that lake. Did LE ever even consider going over all the receipts from the store that day and investigate each person who purchased a single thing?

 

[Marilynilpa]

LE has never used TGs timeline, almost seems like they dismiss his existence. Which is odd. So maybe the bikes he described weren't the girls, since he says they were laying in the trail and the person that found them said they were leaning against the fence. I guess that leaves us with a. TG didn't see the girls' bikes b. he's lying? c. he rode by precisely when they were being kidnapped, kidnapper came back and sat the bikes up?

I'm with you, the timeline is frustrating, confusing, and probably not accurate.

I hope they assign a new lead for this case, they start all over from the beginning, interview each of the family members separately and clear them one at a time. Verify all of their alibis and not place anyone "above suspicion".

I suspect LE was able to identify the owners of the bikes, who were not our girls, and eliminated this sighting. JMO.

ETA: We need cindersoot to weigh in on this!

 

[Marilynilpa]

It would be really nice to know that LE checked out every single receipt from that grocery store that day, around that time. Someone from inside that store could have followed them or heard they were going to that lake. Did LE ever even consider going over all the receipts from the store that day and investigate each person who purchased a single thing?

That's a good point. However, just like TG's sighting of two bikes on the trail, LE never seemed to give the Fareway rumor any credence. I think either there was outside store surveillance video that showed the girls weren't there, or the employees were unable to describe the girls/bikes in a credible fashion.

I just hope this wasn't a viable clue that got overlooked!

 

[threecrazykids]

LE has never used TGs timeline, almost seems like they dismiss his existence. Which is odd. So maybe the bikes he described weren't the girls, since he says they were laying in the trail and the person that found them said they were leaning against the fence. I guess that leaves us with a. TG didn't see the girls' bikes b. he's lying? c. he rode by precisely when they were being kidnapped, kidnapper came back and sat the bikes up?

I'm with you, the timeline is frustrating, confusing, and probably not accurate.

I hope they assign a new lead for this case, they start all over from the beginning, interview each of the family members separately and clear them one at a time. Verify all of their alibis and not place anyone "above suspicion".

I have this weird suspicion that LE actually IS using his time, they just aren't making that public knowledge. I think the bikes were probably moved up against the fence by an innocent passerby at some point throughout the afternoon.

I agree though...get a new set of eyes on it and start fresh.

 

[Squeeze]

There HAS to be other surveillance video that we don't know about, that LE hasn't made public. I think there is a LOT not made public.

I haven't heard any rumors about Smock.

 

[Marilynilpa]

There HAS to be other surveillance video that we don't know about, that LE hasn't made public. I think there is a LOT not made public.

I haven't heard any rumors about Smock.

Was Smock's firing a surprise to you?

 

[Marilynilpa]

I have this weird suspicion that LE actually IS using his time, they just aren't making that public knowledge. I think the bikes were probably moved up against the fence by an innocent passerby at some point throughout the afternoon.

I agree though...get a new set of eyes on it and start fresh.

You could be right about LE using TG's sighting.

But if LE knew that the bikes were definitely seen by TG on the trail at a specific time, I wonder why they didn't confirm that to the public. It sure would help with the confusing timeline if we knew definitively that the girls (or at least their bikes) were at the lake at a specific time.

I have wondered if it's possible someone moved the bikes off the trail. But I think the girls are the ones who left the bikes where they were later found. JMO.

 

[Squeeze]

Was Smock's firing a surprise to you?

It was. At the moment, I don't really know anybody (well) that lives there.

 

[carbuff]

I have this weird suspicion that LE actually IS using his time, they just aren't making that public knowledge. I think the bikes were probably moved up against the fence by an innocent passerby at some point throughout the afternoon.

I agree though...get a new set of eyes on it and start fresh.

I've had the feeling that most if not all of what's been made public is just wrong. That the people with the solid information, the the real times and the accurate facts, did not talk to the press, and the investigators did not release anything they said.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I've had the feeling that most if not all of what's been made public is just wrong. That the people with the solid information, the the real times and the accurate facts, did not talk to the press, and the investigators did not release anything they said.

That is entirely possible. I know LE often withholds information. And I know that if I had seen something and come forward with info, I would not have wanted LE to make it public. So who knows how many people saw something but never spoke to the media, only to LE.

 

[Squeeze]

I've had the feeling that most if not all of what's been made public is just wrong. That the people with the solid information, the the real times and the accurate facts, did not talk to the press, and the investigators did not release anything they said.

I think you are exactly right.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I think it's also concerning that they only recently came forward regarding the sightings of a white SUV, when they'd already received tips about it being parked by the lake.

So if they screwed that potentially important bit of info up, what else was deemed unnecessary?

 

[Marilynilpa]

I think it's also concerning that they only recently came forward regarding the sightings of a white SUV, when they'd already received tips about it being parked by the lake.

So if they screwed that potentially important bit of info up, what else was deemed unnecessary?

I know what you mean. I truly hope this case is looked at again, since who knows what may have been considered inconsequential.

 

[watcher9]

It would be really nice to know that LE checked out every single receipt from that grocery store that day, around that time. Someone from inside that store could have followed them or heard they were going to that lake. Did LE ever even consider going over all the receipts from the store that day and investigate each person who purchased a single thing?

Good idea!
Maybe someone actually bought duct tape or rope or zip ties that day?
The grocery store should have had video in and around the building that should have been checked.

 

[roseofsharon]

I looked at the auction house on Utube and it appears they sell boats. Many of the boats are fishing boats. There is video in the front of the auction house and one behind the store. Along with the grocery receipts (per Cherry's post), hopefully, LE will check out every person who purchased a boat from the auction house in the months leading up to the crime, along with receipts from Ledermans Big and Tall purchases.

With so many boats being sold from CA, it could be that many of the purchasers would be familiar with Meyers Lake, as well as Seven Bridges.

Just a hunch and IMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

In the wake of Smock's firing, I wonder if all the old tips are being reviewed. I keep thinking about the white van and how long it took for the public to be notified that LE was seeking information about the van. There could be other tips that were called in and for one reason or another were deemed unimportant. If all the tips were passed through Smock, I wonder how objective he was in reviewing them?

It really seems to me that everything needs to be reassessed. That might be very cumbersome but two little girls are dead and we are approaching the third anniversary of their abduction with no resolution.

 

[watcher9]

In the wake of Smock's firing, I wonder if all the old tips are being reviewed. I keep thinking about the white van and how long it took for the public to be notified that LE was seeking information about the van. There could be other tips that were called in and for one reason or another were deemed unimportant. If all the tips were passed through Smock, I wonder how objective he was in reviewing them?

It really seems to me that everything needs to be reassessed. That might be very cumbersome but two little girls are dead and we are approaching the third anniversary of their abduction with no resolution.

Funny you mentioning old tips when I had just read this article from April 15.
I think they must be needing a lot of help to assist in their investigation if they still have 1,200 leads after almost three years.

Roehrkasse says they continue to get tips weekly. He says they are still following up on about 1,200 leads.

http://www.wqow.com/story/28814099/...cousins-investigation-continues-without-smock