IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #36

[Marilynilpa]

It will be interesting to see if the Evansdale PD hires an outsider as the new Police Chief, or if they promote from within.

I hope they get an outsider simply because he/she will be able to review Lyric and Lizzy's case with fresh eyes and, hopefully, no preconceptions. JMO

I wonder if it was Smock's decision to keep most info in this case under wraps? Maybe a little judicious release of info would breathe new life into the investigation.

 

[threecrazykids]

I also worry about whether info regarding the case (including tips) could have been destroyed during any of Smock's time as chief. Especially once he knew other officers were questioning him and his shenanigans.

If any sort of tips came in that could remotely lead to some sort of police mishandling or misconduct investigation, would Smock have made sure they were destroyed?

It's hard to say how long his competency within the force has been in question. Sounds to me like it's been quite a long time and is just now coming to fruition.

And if you're covering your own butt, how much of the case are you going to let ANYONE see? If you think your co-workers are all out to get you, you aren't going to let them have visibility to your work. Any signs of mishandling are for sure going to be noted by your "enemies" in an attempt to gain leverage against you. So, keep everything on YOUR desk, let no one see it (to the best of your abilities) and funnel the "tips" to investigators as best serve you.

All the tips that will likely lead nowhere are passed on for the other investigators to work on, while anything credible or revealing stays under lock and key where no one else can see.

This is a huge fear of mine...that there could be WAY more to this than we know. I'd like to think it's as simple as him getting caught with his pants down (literally) and just losing his job for his actions. However, we have no idea how desperate he was to cover his tracks.

As much as I want to think that it's a simple case of infidelity, the situation could become much bigger, very quickly - depending with whom the infidelity occurred.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I also worry about whether info regarding the case (including tips) could have been destroyed during any of Smock's time as chief. Especially once he knew other officers were questioning him and his shenanigans.

If any sort of tips came in that could remotely lead to some sort of police mishandling or misconduct investigation, would Smock have made sure they were destroyed?

It's hard to say how long his competency within the force has been in question. Sounds to me like it's been quite a long time and is just now coming to fruition.

And if you're covering your own butt, how much of the case are you going to let ANYONE see? If you think your co-workers are all out to get you, you aren't going to let them have visibility to your work. Any signs of mishandling are for sure going to be noted by your "enemies" in an attempt to gain leverage against you. So, keep everything on YOUR desk, let no one see it (to the best of your abilities) and funnel the "tips" to investigators as best serve you.

All the tips that will likely lead nowhere are passed on for the other investigators to work on, while anything credible or revealing stays under lock and key where no one else can see.

This is a huge fear of mine...that there could be WAY more to this than we know. I'd like to think it's as simple as him getting caught with his pants down (literally) and just losing his job for his actions. However, we have no idea how desperate he was to cover his tracks.

As much as I want to think that it's a simple case of infidelity, the situation could become much bigger, very quickly - depending with whom the infidelity occurred.

I completely agree. I'm worried about how Smock and the hostile work environment he created has impacted this case. I hope valuable tips weren't lost or ignored.

 

[iamnotagolem]

It will be interesting to see if the Evansdale PD hires an outsider as the new Police Chief, or if they promote from within.

I hope they get an outsider simply because he/she will be able to review Lyric and Lizzy's case with fresh eyes and, hopefully, no preconceptions. JMO

I wonder if it was Smock's decision to keep most info in this case under wraps? Maybe a little judicious release of info would breathe new life into the investigation.

I worry that some don't want fresh eyes on the case.

I would love to hear how the family thinks the case has been handled, MOO.

 

[threecrazykids]

I worry that some don't want fresh eyes on the case.

I would love to hear how the family thinks the case has been handled, MOO.

Well...we know the Collins family is happy with how the investigation was going under Smock's authority. They have mentioned it on more than one occasion.

http://whotv.com/2013/07/12/one-year-parents-happy-with-investigation/

http://thegazette.com/2012/07/26/collins-family-maintains-hope-in-search-for-missing-girls

And as far as Lyric's "side" of the family goes, well...they made it clear from the get go that LE was wrongly focusing on them and their past behaviors. They were screaming that it was an abduction from day one. While they were dragging the lake and bringing in dogs, etc they were wanting it to be classified as an abduction, not missing or drowned kids. That was a whole week before they officially labeled it an abduction. They told of cops/investigators beating down doors in the middle of the night, multiple polygraph tests, flat out accusing Dan of being involved, etc...but still kept their faces out there begging for help.

Misty posted a plea on the FB page of John Walsh (or was it Mark Klaas? I don't remember for certain) when she asked what else she could do. It was a begging plea - saying they needed help and she was "on the verge of losing it" or something of the sort. Helpless is how she explained her feelings.

Then, once the girls bodies were found they went completely private. They did a ceremony for Lyric, no media circus, no "open to the public" service, nothing of the sort . They grieved in private and to my knowledge haven't said one way or the other about how they feel the investigation is/was going after their bodies were found.

Maybe they feel that it honestly doesn't matter how the investigation is going - Lyric isn't coming back one way or the other, so finding or not finding out doesn't change the outcome. I don't know - they are both in jail and the media doesn't seem to ask or care how they are doing. All interviews and media have been with the Collins since their bodies were found.

:thinking:

 

[Marilynilpa]

Well...we know the Collins family is happy with how the investigation was going under Smock's authority. They have mentioned it on more than one occasion.

http://whotv.com/2013/07/12/one-year-parents-happy-with-investigation/

http://thegazette.com/2012/07/26/collins-family-maintains-hope-in-search-for-missing-girls

And as far as Lyric's "side" of the family goes, well...they made it clear from the get go that LE was wrongly focusing on them and their past behaviors. They were screaming that it was an abduction from day one. While they were dragging the lake and bringing in dogs, etc they were wanting it to be classified as an abduction, not missing or drowned kids. That was a whole week before they officially labeled it an abduction. They told of cops/investigators beating down doors in the middle of the night, multiple polygraph tests, flat out accusing Dan of being involved, etc...but still kept their faces out there begging for help.

Misty posted a plea on the FB page of John Walsh (or was it Mark Klaas? I don't remember for certain) when she asked what else she could do. It was a begging plea - saying they needed help and she was "on the verge of losing it" or something of the sort. Helpless is how she explained her feelings.

Then, once the girls bodies were found they went completely private. They did a ceremony for Lyric, no media circus, no "open to the public" service, nothing of the sort . They grieved in private and to my knowledge haven't said one way or the other about how they feel the investigation is/was going after their bodies were found.

Maybe they feel that it honestly doesn't matter how the investigation is going - Lyric isn't coming back one way or the other, so finding or not finding out doesn't change the outcome. I don't know - they are both in jail and the media doesn't seem to ask or care how they are doing. All interviews and media have been with the Collins since their bodies were found.

:thinking:

I wish someone would interview Wylma and see what she thinks.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I wish we knew for sure what the girls' habits were re: bike riding. Here is what Wylma said:

COOK: Yes. It was just like where the post office used to be and a parking lot and then up and down the street, maybe a little ways down on the other side. And they`d come back and check in.

And they were always thirsty, wanted a V-8 juice or something to drink. And then maybe they`d go out for a short 10-minute ride again or something. But it wasn`t a regular basis every day that I would let them go.

On the same program, here is what Misty said:

COOK-MORRISSEY: I don`t think they have a normal bike route, but they are not allowed to just ride freely for hours or until dark. They do have a little bit of freedom, so they`re allowed to go, you know, maybe two or three blocks away and stay within those blocks. An hour, check back in is kind of the standard that we hold with them, and mostly, they stick with it
.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

So, what was it? Did the girls normally ride for 10 minute ride, check in, then go out again, or did they usually ride for an hour then check in?

Also, Misty said they "mostly" stuck with it. What happened on those occasions when the girls didn't stick with it? Where had they gone and how long were they gone? How often did this happen?

This is just one of many things that puzzle me!

 

[threecrazykids]

And then we have Mr. Carpenter's account, which was VERY different than that of Lyric's mom and Grandma's rules:

SBM:

“I broke down for the first time because I was so used to, especially Elizabeth, seeing her every night ride her bicycle and she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl,” Marcella Carpenter said. “You know, it’s hard when you’ve got a grandchild the same age.”

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

I've sometimes questioned whether the friend that Elizabeth had down by the lake could have very well been the Carpenter's granddaughter.

I mean...this affected her enough to break down and cry. I almost jump to the assumption that maybe she knew her fairly well by how she speaks about her. Not to mention Ollipop's door never was knocked on, and he lived RIGHT by the lake...not two blocks away where she claims they were going "door to door"....

Strange, to say the least. Was there was a REASON they would go knock on their door and not Ollipop's?

 

[nikb]

Well...we know the Collins family is happy with how the investigation was going under Smock's authority. They have mentioned it on more than one occasion.

http://whotv.com/2013/07/12/one-year-parents-happy-with-investigation/

http://thegazette.com/2012/07/26/collins-family-maintains-hope-in-search-for-missing-girls

And as far as Lyric's "side" of the family goes, well...they made it clear from the get go that LE was wrongly focusing on them and their past behaviors. They were screaming that it was an abduction from day one. While they were dragging the lake and bringing in dogs, etc they were wanting it to be classified as an abduction, not missing or drowned kids. That was a whole week before they officially labeled it an abduction. They told of cops/investigators beating down doors in the middle of the night, multiple polygraph tests, flat out accusing Dan of being involved, etc...but still kept their faces out there begging for help.

Misty posted a plea on the FB page of John Walsh (or was it Mark Klaas? I don't remember for certain) when she asked what else she could do. It was a begging plea - saying they needed help and she was "on the verge of losing it" or something of the sort. Helpless is how she explained her feelings.

Then, once the girls bodies were found they went completely private. They did a ceremony for Lyric, no media circus, no "open to the public" service, nothing of the sort . They grieved in private and to my knowledge haven't said one way or the other about how they feel the investigation is/was going after their bodies were found.

Maybe they feel that it honestly doesn't matter how the investigation is going - Lyric isn't coming back one way or the other, so finding or not finding out doesn't change the outcome. I don't know - they are both in jail and the media doesn't seem to ask or care how they are doing. All interviews and media have been with the Collins since their bodies were found.

:thinking:

In general I would imagine that Misty and Dan have a less favorable opinion of (or at least, relationship with) LE. Even if you take out any personal ties, they've certainly had more negative experiences. I would imagine they look at LE as the enemy while the Collins family probably doesn't. (all IMO and just speculation). I think it's an interesting point that maybe they are more focused on the fact that Lyric isn't coming back so they aren't as invested in it at this point, too. As someone who doesn't know any of them personally, I care about all of them, and hope whatever way they are grieving is working for them.

As someone who doesn't know the girls but kind of grew to love them through this case, I still want justice for them. I hope that can still happen. I also still worry about other kids that this person or people might victimize.

 

[nikb]

Separate note... funny, my husband and I went and drove by my old house the other night just as a nostalgic thing for me. There was a creek that ran behind it that we were only allowed to go to for short periods of time, and/or if we were supervised. You had to go ways to get to the actual access for it. I was reminiscing and remembering that my brother and I went there almost every day in the summer, along with a few friends. When I was a kid we found a shortcut that kinda sorta bypassed the rules about how far we were allowed to go. To this day if you asked my Mom, she'd say we never or rarely went there. If you asked the neighbors whose yard we cut through, they'd say that we were there almost every day. I'm sure it's partially colored by personal experience, but I tend to believe Mr. Carpenter's account in this case.

Of course none of this helps solve the case, which is incredibly frustrating. I hope there's some movement on it as they look at things again.

 

[dotr]

Regarding what the girls usually did when riding bikes for longer than 10 minutes, i am guessing that they had small adventures, like chatting to people, going to a candy store, racing to a favorite tree.
Either someone has been watching, hunting them for a while, or they happened to be the available " prey" for a predator , ready to grab the first kid to came along, imo.
Other than that, the girls may have willingly gone with someone they thought they knew.
imo.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Regarding what the girls usually did when riding bikes for longer than 10 minutes, i am guessing that they had small adventures, like chatting to people, going to a candy store, racing to a favorite tree.
Either someone has been watching, hunting them for a while, or they happened to be the available " prey" for a predator , ready to grab the first kid to came along, imo.
Other than that, the girls may have willingly gone with someone they thought they knew.
imo.

That takes me back to childhood, having small adventures while riding my bike with friends.

I wish we knew where the girls went when they were gone longer than an hour, though. Maybe they biked to Meyers Lake?

 

[Squeeze]

It's funny how everyone compares kids today with years ago. Now kids are always on their tech devices. Mine included. How did that happen???? Because we don't allow them to do the things we did. I rode my bike all over town. There's no way I'd let my kids so that. But I believe statistically we weren't any safer. Kidnappings and murders happened then too.

 

[Marilynilpa]

An interesting thing just happened. I looked at my FB page, and it showed me some people I might know. One of them had Lyric and Lizzy as their cover page. I do, too, so I sent a friend request. Maybe it's one of you guys, who knows!

 

[Marilynilpa]

When the FBI conducts an investigation, do they start from scratch, or do they simply review what LE gives them?

 

[Squeeze]

When the FBI conducts an investigation, do they start from scratch, or do they simply review what LE gives them?

I'll bet it's a combo of both. Review evidence and interview people again. Kinda like Kelly and Yolanda on Cold Justice. Hey, it's almost on! My favorite show.

 

[Bootsctr]

I'll bet it's a combo of both. Review evidence and interview people again. Kinda like Kelly and Yolanda on Cold Justice. Hey, it's almost on! My favorite show.

Counting down.....! :highfive:

 

[Bootsctr]

I wonder how much surveillance video LE received from the public? IIRC, people were asked to turn over anything they had. Of course we all know about the auction house video, but I don't know of any other video capturing the girls that day. Seems like if the Gateway rumor was true, there might have been video of the girls. JMO.

I feel certain the girls went to the lake that day for a reason, that they knew how to get there, and were taken by someone they knew, leaving the bikes behind. I don't think the bikes were staged.

But I still wonder how Lizzy's purse wound up away from the bikes.

:yeahthat: Lizzy's purse and the non-functioning cell phone except for games... I think the girls knew how to get to the lake, or at least Lizzy. Heather said Lizzy was never allowed to ride that far, but the lawn-watering guy and his wife were very familiar with Lizzy, not Lyric. I think draining the lake was a waste of time, or used to keep Misty and Dan occupied while they were investigated even though they swore up and down the girls were not in the lake. Really nobody but Aunt Tammy thought of the lake. Did Lizzy's purse contain money for a treat from the store, or perhaps a note? A week into the investigation FBI steps in and says they have reason to believe the girls are still alive.

Then in September there was a house search, I believe :thinking:

I hope Smock's relationship was not with someone much closer to the investigation than we want to know. How often was he updating the Collins? How often was Heather calling to be updated? I always thought the Valentine party invitation was a little out of place.

Who would know Seven Bridges like the back of their hand? Maybe they have already moved away from the area.

 

[watcher9]

Yes, the lawn watering guy and his wife seem to be very familiar with Elizabeth, but I'm not sure about Lyric. Did she ride with her a lot or did Elizabeth ride with another friend? The couple also mentioned seeing Elizabeth ride all the time at night and that she would stop and talk to people. Very friendly she said. I wonder if she was by herself then. I couldn't find the link where he said that it was the first time they had ridden on past his house without turning around, but here are a couple of links to him talking about seeing the girls.

As a sad note, further down into the second link are the cases of three teenage girls killed in Waverly in a five year time period from 1971 to 1976 which are still unsolved after forty years. This is in Bremer County right above Black Hawk. I would hate to think that L & L's case could remain unsolved that long. I have also linked where their names were previously brought up in this case by skeet (post #1323).

“I was out watering my yard between 12 and 3:00 and the girls rode their bikes right by our house,” Carpenter said. He and his wife, Marcella, were at Meyers Lake this morning to observe the activity.

“We see them practically all the time ride their bikes right past our house, but they come down and turn around in the street,” he said.

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

https://iowacoldcases.org/tag/bremer-county-ia/

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-13-July-2012-28/page53&p=8940503#post8940503

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'll bet it's a combo of both. Review evidence and interview people again. Kinda like Kelly and Yolanda on Cold Justice. Hey, it's almost on! My favorite show.

I love that show!