IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #4

[Angleena]

I'm sorry but this just is not true. As I stated before, if two people are swimming together and one starts to drown, the other will try to help. An UNTRAINED rescuer will be pulled under along with the victim. That is why there is special training on saving a drowning person.

Yep, that is how I was trained as well. The person drowning is in such a panic that they will use the rescuer as sort of a "step ladder" and the drowning victim is likely to push the rescuer underneath them, hence they both go under.

 

[CHERIE.T]

My first gut instinct about this was that it had something to do with Lyric. IMO and IME an at risk child that might engage in risky behavior is search of love, stability, approval, validation. She looks more like a teen than a 10yo, which opens her to a lot of bad situations for a little girl to find herself in. All that no, no, no way stuff is a red flag to me...let's face it, all was not unicorns and rainbows and Father Knows Best for this child.

:cow:

Appreciate you saying this.

 

[threecrazykids]

THIS is a GREAT question!

It IS a great question, but again, I think this would have been mentioned by family as well. The Aunt had stated they would have taken their shoes off (especially Elizabeth, because she had on high tops) - so I think if they had helmets on those would also be mentioned as something they wouldn't have worn into the water.

 

[palaminodee]

exactly!

that would make their stories/alibi's null and void unless they were at an actual job that whole morning with witnesses

 

[princesspjs]

Yep, that is how I was trained as well. The person drowning is in such a panic that they will use the rescuer as sort of a "step ladder" and the drowning victim is likely to push the rescuer underneath them, hence they both go under.

This is EXACTLY what happened to me. If you think about it, it would just be instinct to use whatever you can feel in the water to try to climb higher so you can breathe. This pushes both people down.

 

[nikb]

Because they have not surfaced, I highly doubt they have drowned either. However, it's just not true that it is not credible that two kids that age would get trapped and drown or that there would be yelling, screaming and splashing involved. I think it is very important, especially in the summer, that everyone knows how easy it is to drown and how quietly it can happen:http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/11320237/http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/07/13/19984846.htmlhttp://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=8266568http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-06-27/ahmedabad/32440109_1_village-pond-boys-lake

http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

WOW Gitana thank you so much for sharing this. I tend to spend a lot of time in or near the water in the summer and I would have (previously) had NO CLUE someone just bobbing around in the water might be in trouble. My husband and I did pull someone out of the river once but he was very drunk and screaming "help me I'm drowning" (in reality he was standing on a sandbar when we got to him). Apparently just the fact that he was screaming meant he really wasn't in all that much trouble. I've always thought someone would yell for help or be flailing around. Yikes.

I am certainly a lot more aware now and will definitely be more alert too. Sorry to get off track I know this isn't (or may not be anyway) related to this case but I just had to thank you.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Did they give the grandmother any indication of where they were going? Do we know how long it takes to ride from grandma's to where the bikes were seen at 12:30?

 

[passionflower]

I trust Grandma. I think she just got confused with the time. So lets say she last seen them at 1130. Witness saw the bikes at lake at 1230. It gave DM plenty of time to (if he is involved)..and then get home and take a nap. For both parents to lie and say Lyric would not run away when in fact she did, suitcase and all, made my hinky go up.
JMO

yes grandma was watching other children and could very easily been distracted on hr time. I trust grandma also, just not sure of her time.
Why would parents lie about her running away?
Yes hinky because that is the first thing I would say, if my child had tried to run away before.
Now WHY did she run away? and why would a 10 year old want to run away?
To whom would she run to? a boyfriend? why would they hide that fact?
Is there more to that story and that is why they think she was abducted?
Poor little Elizabeth, where does she fit in all this?

 

[shefner]

I guess I am stunned by the crimes these families have in their pasts. Misty just got out of jail on May 30? Wow.

So when Misty said, "We've been swimming a lot in the last 5 weeks while I was out of work." Well, truth was, she was out of work because she was incarcerated.

I am not saying this to be mean to the family because my heart breaks for them....but with years worth of criminal activity behind them, they have opened a huge can of worms. I feel for LE trying to sort through the countless possibilities about what has happened. Was it an abduction by someone who knew the girls? Was it someone who had a problem with one of the parents? Was it related to one of the parent's previous crimes?

Now that the whole story is coming forth, I think the chances are greater that someone who had a connection to one of the families took the girls.

 

[shefner]

I guess I am stunned by the crimes these families have in their pasts. Misty just got out of jail on May 30? Wow.

So when Misty said, "We've been swimming a lot in the last 5 weeks while I was out of work." Well, truth was, she was out of work because she was incarcerated.

I am not saying this to be mean to the family because my heart breaks for them....but with years worth of criminal activity behind them, they have opened a huge can of worms. I feel for LE trying to sort through the countless possibilities about what has happened. Was it an abduction by someone who knew the girls? Was it someone who had a problem with one of the parents? Was it related to one of the parent's previous crimes?

Now that the whole story is coming forth, I think the chances are greater that someone who had a connection to one of the families took the girls.

 

[passionflower]

Did they give the grandmother any indication of where they were going? Do we know how long it takes to ride from grandma's to where the bikes were seen at 12:30?

IIRC grandma told them to be back by 1pm and when they didn't come home she started looking for them.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I wanted to add to this -
Capt. Abben and police didn't reveal the parent's criminal histories. They respected their privacy whether out of respect or by law I do not know, but still, that would have been an easy one to get leaked out there! It didn't come up until the parents brought it up themselves that I know of. I read today that the parents approached media (was it CNN) to advise them of their own accord to put it out there. Police also haven't said whether they've confirmed parent's alibis, etc, but have clearly stated over and over they don't have a reason to believe the family was involved. Could be the police are saying this to quell the families concerns about being labeled as suspects, but thus far, they haven't named anyone related or otherwise as even a POI....

BlueIris, you made good points.

 

[Pinkhammer]

I don't think any family member is involved. I believe it was a sexual predator who may have seen the girls riding on the bike path on a prior day and then made his plans to grab both of them.

After listening to the aunt on NG, it seems that that end of the lake was not much used, and a determined predator could easily grab both girls at once without being seen, and drag them back into the woods, knock them unconscious, and take them to his vehicle parked near the Interstate.

Sadly, those babies are long dead.

Lord have mercy on them and all those who loved them in this life.

 

[nikb]

Other than grandma, did anyone else see the girls that morning???
Are there witnesses?? or do we just trust grandma and her time and story about girls going on bike ride? Sorry just have to ask.

Hm. I can't find it but I remember reading that there were other kids also at the house? I'll look for the link. I was thinking the other kids would be even less likely than the grandma to know what time the girls left, UNLESS maybe they were watching a particular TV show? Not the most reliable thing in the world but it might help narrow down the time frame.

 

[jacy]

Sadly, those babies are long dead.

Lord have mercy on them and all those who loved them in this life.

I understand how worried we all are. But maybe we should hold out hope for now?

 

[trigger]

yes grandma was watching other children and could very easily been distracted on hr time. I trust grandma also, just not sure of her time.
Why would parents lie about her running away?
Yes hinky because that is the first thing I would say, if my child had tried to run away before.
Now WHY did she run away? and why would a 10 year old want to run away?
To whom would she run to? a boyfriend? why would they hide that fact?
Is there more to that story and that is why they think she was abducted?
Poor little Elizabeth, where does she fit in all this?

I think there is more to this story. And someone in the family knows.
All I can say is I'm glad she has her cousins to play with and had her Aunts and her grandma in her life.

 

[Beyond Belief]

This feels like a two guy crime. They didn't leave those bikes like that, they were grabbed off the bikes, imo.

 

[Jules71]

I have not once read the bicyclist who saw the girls bikes on the path just before 12:27 moved the bikes. Can someone link to that info as I seemed to have missed it.

Abben said by the time he arrived the bikes were leaning against the fence.

Also Lyric did not actually run away before. She packed a bag but did not leave.

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[Jules71]

I also believe it was speculation that grandma was watching other children. I don't think we know for sure.

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[palaminodee]

what else is frightening is due to the family history, the family and associated people are being looked at, but what if it is the opposite?
Following the Sierra Newbold case it turns out to be a person that happened to go to their same church?
How on earth do you find someone that appears to be a "nice" acquaintance, neighbor or fellow church goer??