IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #4

[Pensfan]

Two things this made me think of...
If grandma, aunt T, and E's big brother looked for the girls at the lake - who was watching the younger Collins kids in the home? At that same time it was said Heather went into Pd to report girls missing.

bbm
That would likely be the same person who was watching Elizabeth and Lyric. Nobody.

Also I keep asking this but why didn't aunt, brother, grandma find the bikes between the time they arrived at the lake at 2:45 and an hour and 15 mins later when they were found by LE?

As you know, there can only be three reasons:
1. Either they didn't look very diligently,
2. The bikes weren't there, or
3. Some aren't telling the truth.

 

[mrsu]

IIRC The biker said he saw the bikes, had to swerve around them or one of them, at about 12:27. He could be off a minute or two, maybe a little more. The 11:30 time is when they left grandma's I think and then she saw them behind the store at (about) 12:15. But that time could be a little off also. It wouldn't take very long to ride to the lake at all. This is what I recall, please someone correct me if I'm mistaken.:moo: MOO

IIRC the biker had posted on FB that the call he made to his daughter when he stopped at the restroom was made at 12:27. He used that call time to estimate the time he would have passed the bikes on the trail based on how long it took to bike to the store where he stopped to use the restroom. I believe that's where the exact number 12:27 and not 12:30 came from. It's amazing how much the difference in a few minutes seems in this case.

 

[nskapbt]

my synopsis in a nutshell- nothing

:sigh:

That sucks that nothing went down. But thank you for the update!

Lyric's parents lawyered up. LE was leaning on the father very hard. It was revealed that Lyric's mom had her parole revoked and is on supervised release for drinking excessively and failing to show up for her drug tests.

Elizabeth's parents are attempting to distance themselves from Lyric's parents and are pizzed at them for getting an attorney.

No clues were found that LE revealed to the press. FBI divers are at the lake right now with lights and sonar checking the deepest areas.

Thank you!

:banghead: at M's for lawyering up....

 

[LucyOso]

I hate to rehash this again...BUT...if they were last seen at 12:15 near the clothing store (pretty much Elizabeth's house), and the biker saw the bikes at approx. 12:20. How can that be? Is that even possible? 5 minutes to get to the lake, ditch the bikes, and not be seen by the biker that passed? I wonder WHY the police are insistent on the 12:15 and where the 11:30 time that Tammy stated on JVM came from?

I do not think the bikes were staged as the girls' scent was on the rock jetty, near the bikes, and also into the wooded trail. I believe they were there and the purse was simply left behind on accident. Perhaps they left in a hurry. I think either #1. Someone came along and leaned the bikes against the fence after almost running into them like the first biker had. In that case I wish they would come forward and say so!! I find it hard to believe nobody else saw the bikes there in the 3 hour time span before they were found since it's a regularly traveled path. OR #2. The fireman had already leaned the bikes against the fence before the LE guy got there. In that case I HOPE that pictures were taken before anything was moved!!

Where is Ollipop?? We need to know what's happening locally!

I was wondering about this earlier. It is also possible, the girls were playing nearby in the woods when the bikes were seen the first time. (12:20)Then perhaps, they got back on them and started to ride home (2:00 sighting) so they wouldn't get in trouble for being late or knew they were late, etc. They may have realized they left the purse, gone back to the same place to find it and something happened from that point. Someone could have thrown the purse over the fence to lure them into the woods or some kids riding by could have seen the purse on the handle bars of the bikes, searched it and threw it over the fence...being kids. Or, the girls realizing they were late may have thrown the purse over the fence as a manufactured "excuse" for being late...someone stole the purse...etc. Perhaps, they went around the fence and either encountered a perp or even encountered someone doing something illegal and being young threatened to "tell". It could have been being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The question is who moved the bikes from the path?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Actually, only one of these girls is older than I was. I was 8 years old at the time and so is Elizabeth now. If my 10 year old sister had been swimming next to me at the time, I would have easily drug her down with me (although she was much smaller than Lyric is).

The water in the part of the lake I was in was maybe 6 feet deep, the raft was close enough to the shore to be easily reached by most kids in the beginner's lessons.

LOL I was wondering how deep the lake the missing girls were near, not your lake!

But I'm glad you and your sister both made it out ok. It's scary how quickly it can happen, I agree. In this case, the lake seems frequently used. I just can't believe no one would've seen anything at all, including the girls even near the lake or on the dock or in the water, if theyd've drowned. Someone would've seen SOMETHING imo...even seen them larking about by the lake or on the jetty?

When there's a drought where I live, and we've just gone through a massive one, the levels of the lakes drops enormously...in fact some lakes disappear altogether. The reason I asked the current depth of this lake is perhaps near the edges (where they were likely to be) it was only up to their knees? There was no raft or anything, so they could access deeper water? Maybe some locals know?

 

[SapphireSteel]

I was wondering about this earlier. It is also possible, the girls were playing nearby in the woods when the bikes were seen the first time. (12:20)Then perhaps, they got back on them and started to ride home (2:00 sighting) so they wouldn't get in trouble for being late or knew they were late, etc. They may have realized they left the purse, gone back to the same place to find it and something happened from that point. Someone could have thrown the purse over the fence to lure them into the woods or some kids riding by could have seen the purse on the handle bars of the bikes, searched it and threw it over the fence...being kids. Or, the girls realizing they were late may have thrown the purse over the fence as a manufactured "excuse" for being late...someone stole the purse...etc. Perhaps, they went around the fence and either encountered a perp or even encountered someone doing something illegal and being young threatened to "tell". It could have been being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The question is who moved the bikes from the path?

If this was an abduction (my gut is telling me it is) it was very quick.

IMO there would have been neither the time, nor the reason, for the perp to even touch the bikes.

I believe they were abducted where the bikes were found.

:moo:

 

[GrainneDhu]

True. I am thoroughly confused.

Grandma, Tammy, and Elizabeths brother drove to the lake looking for the girls. Tammy asked people if they had seen the girls. They searched the trail ( dogs had to smell family so as not to track them) yet didn't see the bikes? Didn't Tammy say the family searched the area the dogs tracked into the woods? Isn't that close to where the bikes were found? I must be losing my mind. I think I need a timeline myself. lol

They only went to the parking area by the lake before the bikes were discovered.

As Ollipop (local resident) has explained, the area where the bikes were left was the only area of the lake that is hidden from sight from other areas of the lake shoreline, due to a fence in the area that is overgrown with weeds and vines plus trees. Basically you have to be very close (a matter of about 15 yards or less) to where the bikes were found in order to see them.

After the bikes were discovered by a volunteer firefighter, the family searched the area on the other side of the lake (where the bikes were found) themselves.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Does Mum have makeup on?

 

[Pacipirate]

LOL I was wondering how deep the lake the missing girls were near, not your lake!

But I'm glad you and your sister both made it out ok. It's scary how quickly it can happen, I agree. In this case, the lake seems frequently used. I just can't believe no one would've seen anything at all, including the girls even near the lake or on the dock or in the water, if theyd've drowned. Someone would've seen SOMETHING imo...even seen them larking about by the lake or on the jetty?

When there's a drought where I live, and we've just gone through a massive one, the levels of the lakes drops enormously...in fact some lakes disappear altogether. The reason I asked the current depth of this lake is perhaps near the edges (where they were likely to be) it was only up to their knees? There was no raft or anything, so they could access deeper water? Maybe some locals know?

We've had a pretty big drought lately. They (LE) did say the level was lower. There are pockets where the water is up to 20 ft deep (holes?) but the rest isn't all that deep from what I know of it. My concern is that people wonder if the rocky shore was slippery, etc. I believe implying that one could've slipped and fallen in, but in all honesty, they've drained quite a bit of that lake and it is a zero-depth entrance, so I'd think they'd have to wade REALLY far out there for it to drop off deep enough to cause an issue. Also, it was stated repeatedly on NG that a cadaver dog would detect and indicate on the gases being release on a decomposing body. It didn't even seem questionable that they wouldn't detect a body in the water.

 

[GrainneDhu]

my synopsis in a nutshell- nothing

Hey, my smoking keyboard resembles that remark! <LOL>

I can't believe I wrote so many posts today. This is what happens if I don't take a nap.

Huh, that's odd. Just now, I thought I heard a faint chorus of voices from all over the world hollering "GO TO BED" at me.

 

[haleyscomet]

How old are the other children that were being watched by Grandma at the Collins home?

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The oldest boy is 12, then I beleive the next oldest girl is 6, and the last girl is 4/5. I could be mistake on the ages of the two youngest daughters, but I know they are younger then Elizabeth.

 

[Pacipirate]

Also, a large part of the lake is easily visible to the interstate. As mentioned before, there is a large construction project going on (down to two lanes) and there is often slow, bumper to bumper traffic. I can't fathom what person would have the thought to put bodies in the water thinking they wouldn't be detected in broad daylight. I also find it hard to think the NO ONE on that interstate wouldn't have noticed someone swimming in the water? IDK, I've driven by that lake 100s of times. I can tell you I see geese there, I've seen families walking/riding bikes/pushing strollers... On the other side is the river, and when headed east bound you often look over and see people fishing or crossing the bridge. I can't imagine anyone could dump a body in the water undetected.

 

[callyn]

LOL I was wondering how deep the lake the missing girls were near, not your lake!

But I'm glad you and your sister both made it out ok. It's scary how quickly it can happen, I agree. In this case, the lake seems frequently used. I just can't believe no one would've seen anything at all, including the girls even near the lake or on the dock or in the water, if theyd've drowned. Someone would've seen SOMETHING imo...even seen them larking about by the lake or on the jetty?

When there's a drought where I live, and we've just gone through a massive one, the levels of the lakes drops enormously...in fact some lakes disappear altogether. The reason I asked the current depth of this lake is perhaps near the edges (where they were likely to be) it was only up to their knees? There was no raft or anything, so they could access deeper water? Maybe some locals know?

BBM I've wondered if some folks did see them and are not stepping forward because they don't want to get involved. It seems that anyone who volunteers any information becomes the target of suspicion and conjecture, at the least. I hope that hasn't happened, but I do wonder. It is hard to believe that no one saw them. Personally, I discount the sighting there at the lake at 2:00 or 2:30. I think that man perhaps saw some other girls and is mistaken.

 

[Pacipirate]

Pardon the grammar on that post^^^, I'm beat and I think my germy kids "shared" something with me...

 

[debirlfan]

I have no idea but the answer is "apparently not."

Misty has already said that the last time she saw Lyric, Lyric was wearing a bright green Tshirt as a pajama top. Misty wasn't sure if Lyric changed out of it because sometimes she would wear her pajama top all day, sometimes she would change into something else.

I don't know why any of the others have not been able to state what the two girls were wearing.

I'd find it more suspicious if any of them did state exactly what the girls were wearing. It sounds as if the house was rather busy - apparently the girls dressed themselves, and it's doubtful anyone paid too much attention.

As to figuring out what they were wearing by seeing what was missing - Lyric, at least, was bouncing around between several residences, and doubtlessly had articles of clothing scattered among them. I would imagine grandma bought her stuff, mom bought stuff, probably aunt bought stuff - other things were handed down, and possibly she swapped stuff with friends.

Since the mother remembers Lyric having the green top on, and apparently it hasn't turned up at either her house or grandma's, then chances are she still had it on. Other than that (and maybe the shoes if they didn't have that many pairs or had favorites they wore all the time) I'd say all bets are off.

 

[Mjskit]

They only went to the parking area by the lake before the bikes were discovered.

As Ollipop (local resident) has explained, the area where the bikes were left was the only area of the lake that is hidden from sight from other areas of the lake shoreline, due to a fence in the area that is overgrown with weeds and vines plus trees. Basically you have to be very close (a matter of about 15 yards or less) to where the bikes were found in order to see them.

After the bikes were discovered by a volunteer firefighter, the family searched the area on the other side of the lake (where the bikes were found) themselves.

So they didn't search until AFTER the bikes were found. I find that so strange, I searched for my grandchildren until the police arrived. After LE got here I was answering questions, getting pictures, and clothing for the dogs, calling for them on LEs PA system.

It is almost like they knew it was a crime scene and didn't want to be accused. IMO

 

[Pensfan]

Of non-family abductions, 32 percent take place on a street or in a car and 25 percent take place in a park or wooded area. The percentage of abducted children taken to another location totals 75 percent. These locations include: vehicle (45 percent), perpetrator's home (28 percent), building (13 percent) (Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children, October 2002)

Of child victims of "stereotypical kidnappings, "40 percent are killed, 4 percent are never found, 71 percent are by a stranger and 29 percent are by a slight acquaintance." In 1999 there were over 115 "stereotypical kidnappings" of children in the United States (Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children, October 2002)

The average non-family perpetrator is a male (75 percent) and 67 percent are under the age of 29 (Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children, October 2002)

http://www.kidsfightingchance.com/stats.php

 

[LucyOso]

If this was an abduction (my gut is telling me it is) it was very quick.

IMO there would have been neither the time, nor the reason, for the perp to even touch the bikes.

I believe they were abducted where the bikes were found.

:moo:

I agree. My point was that there were two sightings of the girls/bikes. The bikes were in the path at 12:20ish. The girls could have been playing in the area. If they are like my 11 year old, it is not uncommon to leave your backpack (purse) on the handle bars of the bike. Someone could have thrown that purse over efnce to lure them into the wooded area. So...the second sighting by the guy watering his lawn could have been the girls. Meaning...the girls head back to grandmas after playing. They start riding home, realise the purse is gone, head back to the area where they were playing and start looking for the purse. They see it on the otherside of the fence...go around and get snatched. Yes, that happened fast and someone was waiting. But, it would also explain two things: the sighting of the bikes in the path at 12:20ish, a second sighting by the lawn watering guy between 1-3 and the fact it appears somehow the bikes moved positions.

 

[haleyscomet]

And Heather doesn't know what they were wearing either? Or the other siblings? Or Grandma? Or Misty?

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Heather knows what Elizabeth was wearing, there is no doubt about that. She's a very devoted stay at home mom. You could ask her what each one of her kids had to eat all day and she could name it off down to a t. The only clothing change that has been mentioned was that of Lyric by Misty. It was probably hard for the grandma to recall what the girls were wearing because she probley didn't even bother to notice. As for the siblings...who knows.

 

[SapphireSteel]

We've had a pretty big drought lately. They (LE) did say the level was lower. There are pockets where the water is up to 20 ft deep (holes?) but the rest isn't all that deep from what I know of it. My concern is that people wonder if the rocky shore was slippery, etc. I believe implying that one could've slipped and fallen in, but in all honesty, they've drained quite a bit of that lake and it is a zero-depth entrance, so I'd think they'd have to wade REALLY far out there for it to drop off deep enough to cause an issue. Also, it was stated repeatedly on NG that a cadaver dog would detect and indicate on the gases being release on a decomposing body. It didn't even seem questionable that they wouldn't detect a body in the water.

Thank you.

They are going through the town trash as well so it appears they are being thorough.

I too have a lot of faith in cadaver dogs, they are just amazing.