IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #8

[Sunlight]

Remember the purse is on the other side of the fence from the bikes. This means either the girl was taken from that place and it was dropped, or it was left there (or thrown there) by someone else. A girl would not just 'lose' her purse. The purse location is the key IMHO.

The purse being left there tells me she did not go willingly to wherever she is.

TG never mentions the purse. My question was about adamant he was about his time calculation, and if so, where does he indicate that he is positive that is the case...in an article? In a blog? I still believe the girls were abducted from the trail at this time until someone proves they weren't. A girl would place a purse down on the lake side of the fence after entering through the fence gate (which was open) and perhaps gone over to the shoreline for some reason....then something happened....whatever happened after 12:15 has not been revealed, so it is just hanging out there... Nothing between 12:15 and 3:58 has been publicly released to this day. LE says they don't know who TG is...'

JMHO (I don't believe TG did anything wrong..no one knows what happened)

 

[robo_geek2]

it is a big thing here for kids to drink them...not saying the girls did, but saying it would be quite possible.

My thought is that if someone had the intention of luring little girls, they would choose any number of more likely choices....lemonade, pepsi, etc.

If the OP said there was one energy drink and two lemonades, i would go in that direction.

 

[sweetpea33]

I highly doubt any doped up meth head would kidnap two little girls for any reason. What is a meth head going to do with two little girls for a couple of weeks ... feed them, give them a bed to sleep in, keep them from escaping? That makes no sense. What i mean is that meth probably has nothing to do with the reason two little girls were kidnapped.

meth heads don't think that far ahead. if a tweaker grabbed them, they probably thought it was a good idea at the time. and some people involved in meth manufacture on a large scale may not even be a meth user themselves.

 

[Thinkzerz]

I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket, but little girls don't drink energy drinks...they taste terrible.

My kids like them. My 21 year old get them and is forever telling her younger siblings to leave them alone. Siblings being 8 and 6

 

[sweetpea33]

My thought is that if someone had the intention of luring little girls, they would choose any number of more likely choices....lemonade, pepsi, etc.

If the OP said there was one energy drink and two lemonades, i would go in that direction.

if the perp came across them on a hot summer day (which it most def was!) and offered the girls a cold drink (especially if they knew or had met that person before) my guess is they would take pretty much any non-alcoholic drink offered...again, it is not uncommon to see children drinking Monster drinks around here and every convience store sells them...in fact my own children went through a Monster Energy drink phase in Middle School.

 

[Jules71]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the location of the purse, and the fact that it was left there.... that's the key. A girl does not "lose' a purse with her cell phone in it. It was either lost in the struggle or thrown over the fence in the struggle.

The idea of dumping bikes.....lugging two girls bicycles thru the woods on a hot day (with presumably two kidnap victims in your vehicle) does not seem logical. The bikes were left where the girls left them, IMHO. The only reason to 'dump' the bikes is to 'move the crime scene', but that is way too much work and risk towards that goal.

I hate to sound like a broken record too - but my point was how did those bikes get there without anyone seeing the girls (or someone dumping them) IF the TG sighting is right? 12:15 on video to 1+ miles away by 12:20 (TG).

 

[IAM]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the location of the purse, and the fact that it was left there.... that's the key. A girl does not "lose' a purse with her cell phone in it. It was either lost in the struggle or thrown over the fence in the struggle.

The idea of dumping bikes.....lugging two girls bicycles thru the woods on a hot day (with presumably two kidnap victims in your vehicle) does not seem logical. The bikes were left where the girls left them, IMHO. The only reason to 'dump' the bikes is to 'move the crime scene', but that is way too much work and risk towards that goal.

Not if a familiar person did it while others distracted "random strangers" at the lake asking about the girls. That familiar person's tire tracks would also hve reason to be there. People could be kept from seeing the bike drop by others asking if they had seen the girls. Not saying this happened. I am just saying this is quite possible.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

I highly doubt any doped up meth head would kidnap two little girls for any reason. What is a meth head going to do with two little girls for a couple of weeks ... feed them, give them a bed to sleep in, keep them from escaping? That makes no sense. What i mean is that meth probably has nothing to do with the reason two little girls were kidnapped.

I'm with you on that thought Otto. It makes no sense to kidnap the girls to keep the Dad quiet. It seems to me that would make him talk even more! He'd have nothing to loose, they'd already taken his daughter!

 

[JaimeInLA]

If TG saw the bikes in the path in a different spot from where they ended up - imo the girls rode them there.

If TG saw the bikes in the path in the same spot they were eventually found, how did they get there (either girls riding them or being dumped there) without being seen between 12:15 & 12:20/:27?

How many bikes were at the Collins home? Were the bikes found at the lake the same bikes the girls were riding in the video? I just don't think there is enough time to have the girls get off their bikes shortly after been seen on video and have someone dump those same bikes on the path before TG rode by.

Agree. And don't forget, in that same time window, someone also had to take the 2 girls in a big pink flamingo paddle boat and pedal as fast as he could across the lake. LOL! Sorry, I couldn't resist. :floorlaugh:

 

[Jules71]

I'm just a little confused when I hear that the timeline is so tight. All I know from reading reports is that the last sighting of the girls is at about 12:15 near the home. The bikes were found at 3:30 (per one article) or 4:00 (per another). I don't see that as a tight timeline.

I don't follow facebook, but did read the comments here (referencing facebook) regarding the man seeing a bike on the path at 12:27. Police have said that the bikes were found together leaning against the fence. The facts don't line up between what the man said he saw and what police discovered. The only possibility is that the kidnapper put a bike in the path and then later decided to lean it against the fence, but why would a kidnapper spend time arranging bikes? That seems too risky.

Police did NOT say the bikes were found leaning up against the fence. Abben said in a press conference that when he got there, they were up against the fence. He would not have been first on scene.

 

[otto]

meth heads don't think that far ahead. if a tweaker grabbed them, they probably thought it was a good idea at the time. and some people involved in meth manufacture on a large scale may not even be a meth user themselves.

Let's suppose that the girls were grabbed because of something related to meth. Then what? What do the kidnappers do with the girls? There's no ransom or other demand. Do the kidnappers put the girls in a room and then go off and do more meth? I don't see the upside, given what we know, for meth people to kidnap two children. It seems like it would simply cause more problems than anyone would want.

 

[imamaze]

No one has been named by LE or MSM as a POI or Suspect in this case. The parents whatever you may think of them have not been named. This means that you are not to sleuth or bad mouth the family, friends, associates etc. at this time.

Right now this case is about finding the girls, lets get back to doing this. No rumors, and if your stating something as fact please link to verify.

Thank you!

 

[IAM]

Was Lyric on her own bike? I am just wondering whose bike she was riding as she did not live there, but was visiting. Did she keep her bike there just for those visits or was she using someone elses bike?

 

[otto]

Police did NOT say the bikes were found leaning up against the fence. Abben said in a press conference that when he got there, they were up against the fence. He would not have been first on scene.

What does that mean? Would police have moved the bikes, leaned them up against the fence, then put up crime scene tape and investigated? Unless police are bumbling through the crime scene, wouldn't they have left the bikes where they were found while they investigated the area?

 

[robo_geek2]

if the perp came across them on a hot summer day (which it most def was!) and offered the girls a cold drink (especially if they knew or had met that person before) my guess is they would take pretty much any non-alcoholic drink offered...again, it is not uncommon to see children drinking Monster drinks around here and every convience store sells them...in fact my own children went through a Monster Energy drink phase in Middle School.

From some googling:

"Mrs. Collins said....“You just see two missing bikes and a purse thrown up over a chain-linked fence and you see nothing else, we just feel that they were taken.”

One report said:
The found purse side of the chain link fence is on the interstate side of the fence.

Another report said:
Collins’ purse and cell phone were found on the other side of a fence about 20 feet from where their bikes were located.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/07/16/missing-iowa-cousins-vanish-while-riding-bikes

One girls purse with a cell phone she stored music on which was not activated was found near the area on the other side of the fence closer to the Interstate,

Where the girls bikes were found, it would be incredibly difficult to get them out of there without any people who frequent the lake or the trails or live on the lake and the trails. However ATV’s are allowed back there and there IS A LARGE section of fence that a car appeared to have driven through this winter still not repaired. Search and rescue dogs lost the scent of the girls at the bikes

http://www.northiowatoday.com/?p=28818

 

[FrayedKnot]

I highly doubt any doped up meth head would kidnap two little girls for any reason. What is a meth head going to do with two little girls for a couple of weeks ... feed them, give them a bed to sleep in, keep them from escaping? That makes no sense. What i mean is that meth probably has nothing to do with the reason two little girls were kidnapped.

I didn't think so either, but I really do think that the timing with DM's court dates as brought up by Katydid and a few others is compelling. It may just be coincidence, but it does open up a chance that someone out to get DM might try to do it through his daughter. EC would have been a casualty, and Lyric the target.

I just don't know WHAT to think, but every scenario seems so 'out there'. :waitasec:

MOO

 

[otto]

I'm with you on that thought Otto. It makes no sense to kidnap the girls to keep the Dad quiet. It seems to me that would make him talk even more! He'd have nothing to loose, they'd already taken his daughter!

I completely agree. Kidnapping children doesn't silence people, it should make them spill their guts and reveal every single detail they know about everyone they know until the chidlren are found.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Was Lyric on her own bike? I am just wondering whose bike she was riding as she did not live there, but was visiting. Did she keep her bike there just for those visits or was she using someone elses bike?

Really good question!!!!! I think grandma said one bike was a mountain bike. Since Lyric is almost 5' tall, could she ride an adult bike, or maybe one of the older Collins kids bikes?

I am not sure if it matters, but I haven't seen anyone ask that before.

 

[Jules71]

What does that mean? Would police have moved the bikes, leaned them up against the fence, then put up crime scene tape and investigated? Unless police are bumbling through the crime scene, wouldn't they have left the bikes where they were found while they investigated the area?

Who knows! As far as I know they allowed every Tom, Dick, and Harry in town to tromp thru there searching and contaminating the crime scene. Remember LE suspected they drowned. Maybe they didn't really think it was a crime scene right away.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Add in the three energy drinks and some cigarette butts and you've got two possibly three people waiting for...

two little girls who they expected to come past on their bikes?

Add in a fourth as driver and you have an almost unbelievable scenario, but one which explains everything.

:moo: