IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #8

[JaimeInLA]

I'm trying to think this out as I type it, so hopefully it will make a little sense.

I don't think the "Lyric as drug mule" idea likely. Possible, but IMO not likely.

Also, if someone wanted to snatch Lyric in retaliation for DM's testimony against him, it seems there would be easier ways to do this without involving Elizabeth. So unless one of DM's former drug associates just happened to driving by and saw the two girls and spontaneously decided to abduct them, I just don't see this being a retaliation against DM.

This could be a stranger abduction, someone who set a trap at the lake and waited for someone to walk into it. From what Ollipop has described to us, and photographed for us, it seems like the area where the bikes were seen by TG would be well-suited for a random abduction.

But I keep coming back to one theory - that the girls are safely hidden somewhere for whatever purpose, and the entire disappearance was staged. I don't want to go into details of why I think that because my theory involves family members who are still considered victims.

It is so hard to leave the drugs and dysfunctional family dynamics out of the disappearance of Elizabeth and Lyric IMO.

What if, to punish Dan, they wanted not only to kidnap/murder his daughter, but also try to make it look like DAN did it?! What if the were mad enough to kill her and frame him? If that is the case, they knew they had to do it on or before the 13th, because after then, he was supposed to be in jail for at least 5 years. (That's a pretty good alibi.) I just can't get past the timing of the court date. He CHANGED HIS PLEA and risked spending FORTY MORE years in jail on 7/12 because he "couldn't go to jail right then." WHY? Perhaps someone had told him what they were planning to do?

 

[MotherOcean]

Regarding the flip flops...I believe I heard Misty say that she thought she was wearing the flip flops, because they were the only shoes "missing" from the house...not that she saw them on her. I'm not sure what Gma saw or if she said anything about it. MOO

I have read three different types of shoes described:
the Sesame Street flip-flops
purple flip-flops with some type of jeweled ornaments across the strap
and a pair of black and white high tops

 

[Mimiof8]

Who is TRS?

BH sheriff trying to find him, not sure

 

[katydid23]

What if, to punish Dan, they wanted not only to kidnap/murder his daughter, but also try to make it look like DAN did it?! What if the were mad enough to kill her and frame him? If that is the case, they knew they had to do it on or before the 13th, because after then, he was supposed to be in jail for at least 5 years. (That's a pretty good alibi.) I just can't get past the timing of the court date. He CHANGED HIS PLEA and risked spending FORTY MORE years in jail on 7/12 because he "couldn't go to jail right then." WHY? Perhaps someone had told him what they were planning to do?

I agree with much of this, and have thought along the same lines. But if so, why wouldn't he be more cooperative and tell LE what he knew about the perps?

 

[MyLilElves]

Let's suppose that the girls were grabbed because of something related to meth. Then what? What do the kidnappers do with the girls? There's no ransom or other demand. Do the kidnappers put the girls in a room and then go off and do more meth? I don't see the upside, given what we know, for meth people to kidnap two children. It seems like it would simply cause more problems than anyone would want.

I hate to be the one saying this, but does anyone remember Dustin Honken?

http://wcfcourier.com/news/breaking_news/article_f2f63082-56b5-5d09-ad98-a41fd75eed79.html

 

[Jax49]

You guys are missing the point. He isn't GOING to talk. He ALREADY talked. So they punished him. (if that is who is responsible)

Agree, but what if he was still holding back somebody big that LE wanted? He had reduced his sentence in stages. Maybe he thought he could reduce it further and the person LE wanted knew it was being discused? (Just brainstorming.)

 

[JaimeInLA]

I agree with much of this, and have thought along the same lines. But if so, why wouldn't he be more cooperative and tell LE what he knew about the perps?

Fear. He might think she is still alive and he can't tell. He might honestly not know which one of the guys he ratted on did it, and he doesn't want to rat out any more accidentally. He might be plotting his own revenge. Who knows. But in my opinion, Dan looks REALLY broken up about this. That photo of him leaning his head on the tree breaks my heart.

 

[SapphireSteel]

What if, to punish Dan, they wanted not only to kidnap/murder his daughter, but also try to make it look like DAN did it?! What if the were mad enough to kill her and frame him? If that is the case, they knew they had to do it on or before the 13th, because after then, he was supposed to be in jail for at least 5 years. (That's a pretty good alibi.) I just can't get past the timing of the court date. He CHANGED HIS PLEA and risked spending FORTY MORE years in jail on 7/12 because he "couldn't go to jail right then." WHY? Perhaps someone had told him what they were planning to do?

Why take Elizabeth? One child is way more difficult to abuct than two. Why take two kids at all, for any reason? It would be easier for anyone to just snatch one, and rely on the other being too traumatised to remember anything.

:moo:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Fear. He might think she is still alive and he can't tell. He might honestly not know which one of the guys he ratted on did it, and he doesn't want to rat out any more accidentally. He might be plotting his own revenge. Who knows. But in my opinion, Dan looks REALLY broken up about this. That photo of him leaning his head on the tree breaks my heart.

When I look at that picture, all I see is those stuffed dolls those crafty people make to lean against their walls.

:moo:

 

[Sunlight]

The court date has been set for the end of August IIRC..MOO More flipping time. MOO

 

[JaimeInLA]

When I look at that picture, all I see is those stuffed dolls those crafty people make to lean against their walls.

:moo:

HAHA! That made me LOL!

Here is a new story. Sad. This can't be good. Sounds like scaling back to me:
http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...1-8ae4-001a4bcf887a.html#.UBMdDx0sbtM.twitter

 

[Sunlight]

Unless LE knows they are safe or in protective custody, I have a hard time seeing some perp (any perp) saying, here are the girls...my bad. JMHO Very frightening.

 

[SapphireSteel]

What if, to punish Dan, they wanted not only to kidnap/murder his daughter, but also try to make it look like DAN did it?! What if the were mad enough to kill her and frame him? If that is the case, they knew they had to do it on or before the 13th, because after then, he was supposed to be in jail for at least 5 years. (That's a pretty good alibi.) I just can't get past the timing of the court date. He CHANGED HIS PLEA and risked spending FORTY MORE years in jail on 7/12 because he "couldn't go to jail right then." WHY? Perhaps someone had told him what they were planning to do?

He was going to jail no matter what...so why frame him? Why not just "disappear" him? Revenge, and end of problem re. narc.

Why hurt a little girl over revenge? Even more, why hurt TWO of them?

It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[hollyblue]

If she brought it over that day, then it would have been in gma's car. Does anyone know what kind of car she drives?

When Lyric was late 4 days earlier, was she biking or on foot? She was at gma's house in Waterloo, though, so if she WAS biking and she was also on her own bike on the 13th, WHEN did it get to the Collins'?

I am kind of thinking though, that when she was late 4 days earlier, they girls were not on bikes..........Maybe Lyric does not own her own bike?

I don't believe they were at Gma's house, but that's just my personal opinion, unless you have something from MSM saying other wise. I believe the area they were walking in was the Greenbriar subdivsion where other family has connections to that area.

So somebody gave the girls a ride on their ATV? Note that if you continue down the trail, it goes under the interstate towards the river and towards the other lake (Hanson lake).

I don't think any motorized vehicles are allowed on the trail at the lake....and know for certain they aren't on the Cedar Valley Nature Trail which leads south of the lake for almost 60 miles. Maybe with the commotion of the girl's missing DM was allowed, but any perps wouldn't have been on one unless it was in the wooded area....or at the end of the trail. IMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

In speaking of Elizabeth I was mainly referring to her mom having had a heart attack and being frail and what she is enduring now. As for Lyric, I was speaking of the parents criminal records and absence from her life.

Oh, I agree and wasn't picking on your statement at all. I imagine it's very difficult for a little girl when her mom isn't healthy.

I was mainly using your post as a jumping-off point for my post, and no offense was intended.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Why take Elizabeth? One child is way more difficult to abuct than two. Why take two kids at all, for any reason? It would be easier for anyone to just snatch one, and rely on the other being too traumatised to remember anything.

:moo:

Because they had a very small window of opportunity. They had to make this happen before the end of the day on 7/13, when Dan was scheduled to go to court/report to jail. If they wanted to frame him to make sure he went to prison for LIFE (not the measly 5 years he got by ratting them out!), then they had to grab her that day.

Remember the timing, and try to think like a criminal. His 2 accomplices had their hearings the previous day. So on the 12th, they kept up their part of the bargain. They plead guilty and took their sentences like men. Then on that afternoon, they find out that Dan ratted out a bunch of people in their network, and somehow managed to get an even SWEETER deal than they did. (At this point, nobody knows he will reject the plea.) They are pissed! What a rat! So they call him the night of the 12th and say "We're going to grab your kid, you rat." On the morning of the 13th, he tells his lawyer he can't report to jail, reject the plea (he wants to protect his kid). But the accomplices and/or other drug-type-guys involved don't know this, and are determined that he will go to jail for life. So they have to grab Lyric on the 13th, before Dan goes to jail. It was their ONLY DAY to do it. Poor Elizabeth just happened to be there, as an innocent bystander. Wrong place, wrong time.

 

[ShyViolet]

I hate to be the one saying this, but does anyone remember Dustin Honken?

What an awful occurrence. Good insight into what meth minds are capable of.

 

[Nvgirl]

Its always so easy to blame family, and that is to cause FBI and everybody always says its unlikely for strangers to abduct. I wish they would educate more on stranger danger. It happens all the time. Look at the case with sierre newbold. A guy they had seen a few times in church came in their house at 3:00 AM and took that poor little girl. FBI kept saying it has to be someone in the family and someone they know.

At this point in the case i would keep all options open. I think some of the family is a little shady. I do believe these girls were comfortable, going with this person or persons and i think it would be hard for somebody to kidnap two girls. But anything is possible, i never thought i would turn on the tv and see a guy eating off another guys face either :-/

 

[Jax49]

HAHA! That made me LOL!

Here is a new story. Sad. This can't be good. Sounds like scaling back to me:
http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...1-8ae4-001a4bcf887a.html#.UBMdDx0sbtM.twitter

Snipped from the link:

We are not cutting back on the agents,” he said.
The investigators have been searching for Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook-Morrissey 10, since July 13. He said the agents had originally moved to the school for more space and more privacy but “now the school system wants the school back.”
“The teachers are coming back on Monday,” he said.
Poyner Principal Trista Manternach said the investigators have been welcome at the school from the beginning, but as the school year approaches her teachers needed less restricted access to their classrooms.

***********

Hopefully its just because the teachers need access.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Because they had a very small window of opportunity. They had to make this happen before the end of the day on 7/13, when Dan was scheduled to go to court/report to jail. If they wanted to frame him to make sure he went to prison for LIFE (not the measly 5 years he got by ratting them out!), then they had to grab her that day.

Remember the timing, and try to think like a criminal. His 2 accomplices had their hearings the previous day. So on the 12th, they kept up their part of the bargain. They plead guilty and took their sentences like men. Then on that afternoon, they find out that Dan ratted out a bunch of people in their network, and somehow managed to get an even SWEETER deal than they did. (At this point, nobody knows he will reject the plea.) They are pissed! What a rat! So they call him the night of the 12th and say "We're going to grab your kid, you rat." On the morning of the 13th, he tells his lawyer he can't report to jail, reject the plea (he wants to protect his kid). But the accomplices and/or other drug-type-guys involved don't know this, and are determined that he will go to jail for life. So they have to grab Lyric on the 13th, before Dan goes to jail. It was their ONLY DAY to do it. Poor Elizabeth just happened to be there, as an innocent bystander. Wrong place, wrong time.

Or, they could've just put a bullet in his head?