Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 #29

[Sd8503]

I haven't seen where they were murdered by other family members. I have no idea how to link but it was pretty easy to Google. Article stated there was no family of the murderer in the area and it's been determined to have nothing to do with each other. This was almost 40 years ago and was a bank heist. I don't think they have anything to do with each other. The cousins of hers that were murdered are Danny and Dawn Kriegel.

 

[MsBetsy]

Did the LE officer say it on camera or did a reporter say that’s what he’d heard from an official on scene. If it is confirmed that LE said it, that might impact some portions of how I think about this case.

It was stated in an article that I think is pretty reliable. Maybe the local paper, I'm sure someone can find the link. I want to say it was Krieger who was reported to have said it in an interview.

 

[Deleted member 718]

The only thing LE has said is she is missing and they are searching the last known points she was seen. They have no suspects, no proof she's been harmed, and there is no perpetrator known of in this case so far. Only in the theories posted by people speculating is there a "perp". There is not one until she is found.

I agree.

Corpus delicti - Wikipedia

Corpus delicti is one of the most important concepts in a murder investigation. When a person disappears and cannot be contacted, many police agencies initiate a missing person case. If, during the course of the investigation, detectives believe that he/she has been murdered, then a "body" of evidentiary items, including physical, demonstrative and testimonial evidence, must be obtained to establish that the missing individual has indeed been murdered before a suspect can be charged with homicide.[2] The best and easiest evidence establishment in these cases is the physical body of the deceased. However, in the event that a physical body is not present or has not yet been discovered, it is possible to prove a crime took place if sufficient circumstantial evidence is presented to prove the matter beyond a reasonable doubt.[3] For example, the presence at a missing person's home of spilled human blood, identifiable as that person's, in sufficient quantity to indicate exsanguination, demonstrates—even in the absence of a corpse—that the possibility that no crime has occurred, and the missing person is merely missing, is not reasonably credible.

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t think we’re dealing with a genius here. Every perp knows that cell phones aren’t conducive to getting away clean with a crime. I imagine that the phone and Fitbit were turned off early in the abduction, and later destroyed or discarded. We’re talking about an offender who is likely in his 20s, 30s, or 40s. All of the above would be savy enough to know this.

 

[1987]

Thinking on the LE map released during the most recent presser...

The TA Truck Stop. I'm thinking some truckers work in teams, with one trucker driving the big rig for a ways while the second trucker follows in a chase vehicle (car), After x miles they swap vehicles and proceed.

Might this team scenario explain a possible vehicle (trucker in car) transport of MT (or her Fitbit/Phone) from her jogging route to/through the TA Truck Stop area?

not sarcasm, educate me on WHY they have a chase car??? I thought teams were when one driver was in the sleeper while other drove and they switched back and forth so the truck didn't have to sit just because driver was at their hour limit for driving.

 

[PaulR]

In my state, they have issued new Drivers Licenses that are endorsed to substitute for passports when traveling in the US or US islands and territories. If MT has applied for 1 of these new licenses, she could theoretically have that new one with her and had left her old license and passport behind. I checked and Iowa is implementing the same license and 23% of Iowans have already upgraded. Iowa D.O.T. says get ready for your Real I.D.

They said they found her drivers license. I take that to mean her current drivers license. When I moved to another state and got a new drivers license in my new state (Washington), they asked for my old drivers license and punched a hole in it to make it invalid.

And it's still very limited - you don't need a passport to travel to many of those places anyway, just certain forms of government ID.

 

[str8nightowl]

Makes sense.....no post hole (or other implement) needed in some instances.
Which means dig a grave, toss lime in, cover it up. Pray for rain.
I'm thinking though, lime doesn't fool cadaver dogs.

MooseMeMuch, can you bury something deep enough though that dogs will not find it? I know my husband and I were discussing it one time a long time ago and I think he said that if you bury it pretty deep it could be deep enough that the cadaver dogs would not find it. But then again wouldn't the scent (of Mollie just being in the vicinity) lead the dogs to the location to begin with. I would have thought the dogs would have caught a whiff of her scent. If that was the case I would think LE would have kept searching and searching in that location until they found Mollie. JMO. Or MAYBE the dogs DID pick up her scent (could be why they questioned WC so much--because they got some of Mollie's scent off of his property), but they STILL couldn't find her, especially if they couldn't find an area with dirt that looked like it was freshly dug. If they had found something like that I would think they would have kept searching and by that time served a search warrant to find out what was buried. So they most likely found NOTHING.

 

[otto]

I think I have found a link to the 2 articles (Iowa newspaper) about the case. Not sure it is allowed to post, though?

Anything that is published in a newspaper can be quoted and linked.

Oops - it should be relevant to Mollie, not sleuthing the family - as we well know.

 

[i'm someone]

I agree.

Corpus delicti - Wikipedia

Corpus delicti is one of the most important concepts in a murder investigation. When a person disappears and cannot be contacted, many police agencies initiate a missing person case. If, during the course of the investigation, detectives believe that he/she has been murdered, then a "body" of evidentiary items, including physical, demonstrative and testimonial evidence, must be obtained to establish that the missing individual has indeed been murdered before a suspect can be charged with homicide.[2] The best and easiest evidence establishment in these cases is the physical body of the deceased. However, in the event that a physical body is not present or has not yet been discovered, it is possible to prove a crime took place if sufficient circumstantial evidence is presented to prove the matter beyond a reasonable doubt.[3] For example, the presence at a missing person's home of spilled human blood, identifiable as that person's, in sufficient quantity to indicate exsanguination, demonstrates—even in the absence of a corpse—that the possibility that no crime has occurred, and the missing person is merely missing, is not reasonably credible.

And this is probably the definition they used in my classmate's case when they could not legally question the last person who saw her as a "suspect" or get a search warrant. She's never been found, so that is sad. But it may be the definition that they have to work with here and it's not just a fear of "scaring off" a potential suspect or escalating any possible violent/unstable behavior. Until they put forth more information publicly, I think it's safe to assume on the side of "no evidence, no perp". JMO Thanks for posting the entire definition, I never realized why LE sometimes chooses the approaches they do. I am sure this is the number one reason.

 

[mtnlites]

It could have been the route the perp was taken when leaving the area. May perhaps saved it for a souvenir to re live the event. that may be why they want persons to remember any vehicles in the area around that time. I would say according to the ping that is the area he was heading through. And after thought, it may-had stop working for whatever reason around that pig farm but he keep traveling in that direction perhaps. But all just speculation on my part.

I wanted to say that I agree with you and also that I did my PhD dissertation on Annelise. I called it "Satan or Seizures?"

 

[NewYork625]

Question: do any of you consider the idea that an abductor, if there is 1, is young enough to realize what a Fitbit is and they just knocked her out and then switched the Fitbit to their own wrist for a time? Although it would change the heart rate speed likely, it might be hard for LE to determine what changed the heart rate (was she knocked out, was she fighting, was she scared or asleep). If the perp wore it for a while driving and then discarded it, they may have influenced LE to believe Mollie was alive longer than she actually was.

I know a lot of older people who use a Fitbit, so I don't think the person necessarily has to be young.

 

[Deleted member 718]

August 14, 2018
The site also said investigators “have not ruled out any scenario that could explain Mollie’s disappearance, we must consider the possibility that foul play is involved.

Police Narrow Search for Mollie Tibbetts to 5 Areas of Iowa Town

The possibility... Nothing definite in that statement.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

not sarcasm, educate me on WHY they have a chase car??? I thought teams were when one driver was in the sleeper while other drove and they switched back and forth so the truck didn't have to sit just because driver was at their hour limit for driving.

Not all big rigs include sleeper cabs. Plus, a tag vehicle (car) may stop to purchase eat'um'ups (groceries) while the big rig continues down the road and then meet up at (fewer) scheduled rig stops. The tag vehicle may also proceed ahead to book an overnight or to make small deliveries from a larger load.

 

[Falcon500]

I'm fairly certain that "cold" only means there is no new leads and is not being actively investigated. It remains open. I don't believe a case ever gets closed until it is solved. I watch way too many crime shows.

You are very astute! There are no legal term such as “cold” or “open”. The first time that I ever heard of a cold case was from television. Gradually the word crept into police work. On a large city department there might be 500 unsolved cases going back fifty years. The only way that they will be closed is a phone call out of the blue or a death bed confession.

 

[str8nightowl]

I wonder how many killers actually take the time to dig a grave? I was looking into a green burial for myself and in the information packet they addressed the fact that it is hard work to dig a grave. I just don't have the idea that many killers take the time to do it by shovel. Now farm implements would be something else altogether.

CheetosDust, I was thinking though wouldn't someone notice HUGE farm equipment out in a field like that late at night, or hear the noise. Just a thought. Maybe it was too late into the night (to hear or see it--PLUS again it rained so that would cover up any noise). Also if it was far enough out in a field (covered by trees) then maybe no one seen the perp IF he was out there. JMO.

 

[i'm someone]

snipped for clarity, respectfully

On a large city department there might be 500 unsolved cases going back fifty years. The only way that they will be closed is a phone call out of the blue or a death bed confession.

Or the ever long backlog of evidence testing in the country being caught up. A person can hope.

 

[sbsuzilight]

Question: do any of you consider the idea that an abductor, if there is 1, is young enough to realize what a Fitbit is and they just knocked her out and then switched the Fitbit to their own wrist for a time? Although it would change the heart rate speed likely, it might be hard for LE to determine what changed the heart rate (was she knocked out, was she fighting, was she scared or asleep). If the perp wore it for a while driving and then discarded it, they may have influenced LE to believe Mollie was alive longer than she actually was.

Regarding the fitbit, I don't think everyone is aware of them and someone may think she was just wearing a watch. I have had one for over a year now and did not know they can track your location until I heard about it in reference to Mollie's disappearance. So, I went into settings and found one for location. You can choose private, friends or public, which sounds to me like it will track you no matter what. It will know your location even if you only want it to be private.

 

[SteveP]

I know a lot of older people who use a Fitbit, so I don't think the person necessarily has to be young.

I am about to turn 63 tomorrow, and a couple years ago, I decided to get healthier and bought a Vivofit HR, which is Garmin's version of the Fitbit, and I know several people in my age bracket who wear them.

 

[1987]

Not all big rigs include sleeper cabs. Plus, a tag vehicle (car) may stop to purchase eat'um'ups (groceries) while the big rig continues down the road and then meet up at (fewer) scheduled rig stops. The tag vehicle may also proceed ahead to book an overnight or to make small deliveries from a larger load.

you are a long time member and I respect that but I don't think this is common for a trucker to have a chase car. i think that big truck just swings right threw walmart n driver/s just get what they need or use the truck stop. i know they all don't have sleepers but i think that is more for shorter runs. again i don't intend to be sarcastic, i just don't understand the reasoning. it would log a LOT of miles and fuel.

maybe you are thinking about wide load escorts?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

They said they found her drivers license. I take that to mean her current drivers license. When I moved to another state and got a new drivers license in my new state (Washington), they asked for my old drivers license and punched a hole in it to make it invalid.

And it's still very limited - you don't need a passport to travel to many of those places anyway, just certain forms of government ID.

They did not take my brother’s drivers license when he got the new 1, but I do think the state could certainly determine whether she had a newer 1 on file. And possibly even whether she had used it to travel.

So I agree it’s likely not relevant.