IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #39

[Stormy21]

From my military days, I’ve seen small men and women do similar things without a great deal of struggle. I’m not talking about people necessarily in tremendous shape either. I personally don’t think this would be difficult, and certainly not impossible.

Ok I give you 120. Not 150 though.

 

[Warwick7]

When he was removing her from the trunk, and taking her to the place where he dumped her body. I suppose it’s also possible that he made her walk (if she was alive and able, or dragged her by her hands for a period of time.

I am wondering if there are two separate situations. One where he drug her out of the backseat, (or trunk). She was fighting him so he was dragging her on foot. Then the second situation where she was taken out of the trunk and thrown over his shoulder 20 feet into the cornfield.....

 

[Stormy21]

They are more or less required if you have horses, cattle, etc. that are being fed hay and alfalfa. The "old rust things" are now fancy stainless steel, etc. and come in a multitude of sizes. They would make a formidable weapon and also be useful when moving a heavy weight.

Thanks. Yeah I googled them, and see the design changes.

I don't see the wounds described as produced by something like a hook. In fact it looks like if you had to face an attacker who was wielding one of those you have a fighting chance of fending him off.

 

[Al Hoffman]

I never posted that CR would not be tried in Iowa. Following is the exchange:

My post:


MassGuy posted in reply:



My response:



Take precedence over State as in: according to current policies, it seems to me DHS may deport CR after Iowa has their way with him (trial, conviction, incarceration). 90 days incarceration is part of the requirements that allow for DHS to deport... the policy does not state a convict must server a full sentence.

I've been posting about the POSSIBILITY that the Feds could link a number of Federal violations to charge CR with a Federal murder charge (which does carry a death penalty), IF the Feds felt a need to do so. I don't think that this will happen in this case, but I posit it as a possibility that the State of Iowa could use these Federal charges to lever CR if necessary.

This, also, is always a back stop to high profile State cases, if the State case fails to convict, the Feds can offer a "2nd bite at the apple" without invoking double jeopardy. The Feds can possibly come up with their own list of separate charges, like the civil rights conviction of the NOPD Algiers Seven after Louisiana failed to obtain a conviction. All of this happening if the State of Iowa decides to ask for help. Like DCI asking for FBI assistance.

That having been said, I am certain that CR will be tried and convicted by the State of Iowa and will serve the rest of his life in an Iowa State Penatentary. According to the 10th amendment to the Constitution, Iowa has primacy in this matter and the Feds are out of it, unless Iowa wants their help. CR has an ICE detainer, and if he ever walks free, the Feds will take him, but not until then. Maybe ICE could ship CR's body home, when that time comes, to save Iowa the cost of a burial. The nice thing about the ICE detainer is that if CR ever makes bail (not gonna happen) Iowa can continue to incarcerate him based on the ICE detainer, to hand him over to the Feds at Iowa's discretion (NOT gonna happen).

There is no way that ICE is going to ride in, to take custody of CR and deport him to his home country where he might walk free (not now, not never). Not that his home country would let him walk free, because of the heinous nature of his crime (they have kids too). IF ICE were to attempt this, they would literally have to fight their way past Iowa LE, and I would love to see what ANY Supreme Court would have to say on the matter!

Something like this happened in Jefferson Parish shortly after H. Katrina. FEMA (Homeland Security) took control of all fuel stores in the area a week or more after the storm, with armed Federal officers. JP sent a fuel tanker to get diesel fuel (that the parish had already paid and contracted for) to run the generators at their central Emergency Operations Center at a local hospital. The tanker was turned away by the Feds, and JP was told they would get only whatever fuel FEMA thought they needed, send us your written request. Sheriff Harry Lee sent 3 squad cars of Depuities armed with M-16's and shotguns, along with the tanker, back to the tank farm. They got the fuel. Like I said, 10th Amendment primacy rights, in this case backed up by Colt. This would not make for good media optics in Iowa, for the rest of the country to see.

FEMA also cut the antenna leads to the EOC radios, to hook up to their own system, and told JP they did not need radios as "FEMA was now here". The Depuities also had a discussion with the FEMA IT guys, and the EOC radios were quickly reconnected. This all happened while JP was carrying out active search and rescue ops in a gulf front Parrish.

 

[Stormy21]

I am wondering if there are two separate situations. One where he drug her out of the backseat, (or trunk). She was fighting him so he was dragging her on foot. Then the second situation where she was taken out of the trunk and thrown over his shoulder 20 feet into the cornfield.....

Evidence from the car itself will tell everyone alot. There are unexplained things in the scenario. Somehow, I do not think we have all the explanations that will come out in the future.

 

[jillycat]

It does or it could be the same type of reflection as noted on the back bumper. Photos of black vehicles can be very misleading. I only know this because I recently listed a black SUV for sale. Had no calls at first, double checked my ad, noticed my photo and gasped. The reflections from everything around it on that sunny day made it appear as if it was thoroughly crunched in several places.

True, my neighbor parks right beside me and his black car always looks smashed in a number of places but actually doesn't have a mark on it. It's new, therefore really shiny and looks distorted depending on the light and reflections.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

What? He may only get 90 days?!! Is that what you are trying to say? Or is it only in the event that someone who only gets 90 days for a minor crime can be deported? Can you state in one or two sentences what you are saying?.... ... Very tired so it just sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo right now. I'll check for my answer tomorrow... thank you

NO, I did not suggest CR will only be sentenced to serve 90 days. The reinstated policies indicate a convicted I.I. must have served at least 90 days after a conviction before DHS may proceed with deportation. It does not spell out that a release from incarceration must have occurred although that might be assumed.

 

[Stormy21]

I've been posting about the POSSIBILITY that the Feds could link a number of Federal violations to charge CR with a Federal murder charge (which does carry a death penalty), IF the Feds felt a need to do so. I don't think that this will happen in this case, but I posit it as a possibility that the State of Iowa could use these Federal charges to lever CR if necessary.

This, also, is always a back stop to high profile State cases, if the State case fails to convict, the Feds can offer a "2nd bite at the apple" without invoking double jeopardy. The Feds can possibly come up with their own list of separate charges, like the civil rights conviction of the NOPD Algiers Seven after Louisiana failed to obtain a conviction. All of this happening if the State of Iowa decides to ask for help. Like DCI asking for FBI assistance.

That having been said, I am certain that CR will be tried and convicted by the State of Iowa and will serve the rest of his life in an Iowa State Penatentary. According to the 10th amendment to the Constitution, Iowa has primacy in this matter and the Feds are out of it, unless Iowa wants their help. CR has an ICE detainer, and if he ever walks free, the Feds will take him, but not until then. Maybe ICE could ship CR's body home, when that time comes, to save Iowa the cost of a burial. The nice thing about the ICE detainer is that if CR ever makes bail (not gonna happen) Iowa can continue to incarcerate him based on the ICE detainer, to hand him over to the Feds at their discretion (NOT gonna happen).

There is no way that ICE is going to ride in, to take custody of CR and deport him to his home country where he might walk free (not now, not never). Not that his home country would let him walk free, because of the heinous nature of his crime (they have kids too). IF ICE were to attempt this, they would literally have to fight their way past Iowa LE, and I would love to see what ANY Supreme Court would have to say on the matter!

Something like this happened in Jefferson Parish shortly after H. Katrina. FEMA (Homeland Security) took control of all fuel stores in the area a week or more after the storm, with armed Federal officers. JP sent a fuel tanker to get diesel fuel (that the parish had already paid and contracted for) to run the generators at their central Emergency Operations Center at a local hospital. The tanker was turned away by the Feds, and JP was told they would get only whatever fuel FEMA thought they needed, send us your written request. Sheriff Harry Lee sent 3 squad cars of Depuities armed with M-16's and shotguns along, with the tanker, back to the tank farm. They got the fuel. Like I said, 10th Amendment primacy rights, in this case backed up by Colt. This would not make for good media optics in Iowa, for the rest of the country to see.

FEMA also cut the antenna leads to the EOC radios, to hook up to their own system, and told JP they did not need radios as "FEMA was now here". The Depuities also had a discussion with the FEMA IT guys, and the EOC radios were quickly reconnected. This all happened while JP was carrying out active search and rescue ops in a gulf front Parrish.

Do you know if kidnapping would result in federal charges?

The suspect is never going home if he is convicted. Even if he managed to slip back to Mexico before arrest, the USA has an extradition treaty with our neighbor.

 

[Jaclin]

Those rusty old things? Do they even use hay hooks anymore? The days of square bails are gone. All I see are those huge round monsters of hay that always appear half rotted. I suppose the help still uses them to pull the big rolls apart??

Every farm kid I ever knew carried a pocket knife. If not a couple. More than likely that would cause the wounds.

Aren't authorities looking for a murder weapon?

don't know about hay bales, but there are lots of straw bales available everywhere especially in the fall. would they be made differently? still think he probably used some type of pocket knife.

 

[Jaclin]

From my military days, I’ve seen small men and women do similar things without a great deal of struggle. I’m not talking about people necessarily in tremendous shape either. I personally don’t think this would be difficult, and certainly not impossible.

agree. my brother is probably around the same size as CR height wise. He's a little stockier, but I think he could definitely do it...perhaps not easily, but he could do it.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I've been posting about the POSSIBILITY that the Feds could link a number of Federal violations to charge CR with a Federal murder charge (which does carry a death penalty), IF the Feds felt a need to do so. I don't think that this will happen in this case, but I posit it as a possibility that the State of Iowa could use these Federal charges to lever CR if necessary.

This, also, is always a back stop to high profile State cases, if the State case fails to convict, the Feds can offer a "2nd bite at the apple" without invoking double jeopardy. The Feds can possibly come up with their own list of separate charges, like the civil rights conviction of the NOPD Algiers Seven after Louisiana failed to obtain a conviction. All of this happening if the State of Iowa decides to ask for help. Like DCI asking for FBI assistance.

That having been said, I am certain that CR will be tried and convicted by the State of Iowa and will serve the rest of his life in an Iowa State Penatentary. According to the 10th amendment to the Constitution, Iowa has primacy in this matter and the Feds are out of it, unless Iowa wants their help. CR has an ICE detainer, and if he ever walks free, the Feds will take him, but not until then. Maybe ICE could ship CR's body home, when that time comes, to save Iowa the cost of a burial. The nice thing about the ICE detainer is that if CR ever makes bail (not gonna happen) Iowa can continue to incarcerate him based on the ICE detainer, to hand him over to the Feds at Iowa's discretion (NOT gonna happen).

There is no way that ICE is going to ride in, to take custody of CR and deport him to his home country where he might walk free (not now, not never). Not that his home country would let him walk free, because of the heinous nature of his crime (they have kids too). IF ICE were to attempt this, they would literally have to fight their way past Iowa LE, and I would love to see what ANY Supreme Court would have to say on the matter!

Something like this happened in Jefferson Parish shortly after H. Katrina. FEMA (Homeland Security) took control of all fuel stores in the area a week or more after the storm, with armed Federal officers. JP sent a fuel tanker to get diesel fuel (that the parish had already paid and contracted for) to run the generators at their central Emergency Operations Center at a local hospital. The tanker was turned away by the Feds, and JP was told they would get only whatever fuel FEMA thought they needed, send us your written request. Sheriff Harry Lee sent 3 squad cars of Depuities armed with M-16's and shotguns, along with the tanker, back to the tank farm. They got the fuel. Like I said, 10th Amendment primacy rights, in this case backed up by Colt. This would not make for good media optics in Iowa, for the rest of the country to see.

FEMA also cut the antenna leads to the EOC radios, to hook up to their own system, and told JP they did not need radios as "FEMA was now here". The Depuities also had a discussion with the FEMA IT guys, and the EOC radios were quickly reconnected. This all happened while JP was carrying out active search and rescue ops in a gulf front Parrish.

Thank you, AH, for your thoroughly informative post. I am glad you clarified the situation and corrected my assumptions and incorrect interpretations of the policies.

I must add, some might expect a "Verified ********" would have been as forthcoming with such an informative response instead of flying off with denigration.

Again, thank you, AH!

 

[Confusion]

Very. Especially if this is in fact a common thing for him, like he apparently claimed. What did he do those other times?

I've been wondering if the other rage induced "blocked memories" involved fights with males. I know my grandfather refused to allow himself to lose his temper (and died from a heart attack at 57, probably at least partially because of it) because he lost it was as a young man and almost killed the guy he attacked. I have no idea if he blacked out when it happened since I was told it by a 3rd party, but rage can cause a person to do things that may be totally out of character under normal circumstances. I'm not making excuses for him; whether he remembers or not and whether he lost complete control or not, I still believe he is 100% responsible for what he did. MOO

 

[travelbug]

Thanks. Yeah I googled them, and see the design changes.

I don't see the wounds described as produced by something like a hook. In fact it looks like if you had to face an attacker who was wielding one of those you have a fighting chance of fending him off.

I've been trying to avoid stating the gruesome possibilities. I am not thinking of the hay hook as a sole or primary weapon, however a pair of them would make it much easier for a farm worker to drag a heavy body.

 

[MsBetsy]

I went back to Maps Media and Timeline. I want to go back to a couple things that have nagged at me for some time.

1. "... he dragged Tibbetts on foot from his vehicle to a secluded location in a cornfield,"

Who was on foot? CR? This makes no sense. How else was he going to drag her out of the trunk....on roller skates?? Naturally he was on foot.

Unless...he is partially lying partially telling the truth. Could it have been....just hear me out.... That she was fighting him but yet was drug on foot to a secluded location in a cornfield???

2. "...came to at an intersection.” Rivera told police he “then made a U-turn, drove back..."
Again he is probably partially lying partially telling the truth. Could it be that "made a u turn and drove back tot he cornfield? Then this would be the time frame he would "throw her over his shoulder and take her 20 feet into the cornfield and cover with with corn stalks?

I have more to add, but I would like others take on this first.

I think he dragged her on foot is just a figure of speech and just means he dragged her into the secluded location where he assaulted her. It seems odd that they said on foot but I do think they were referring to him and not Mollie. I believe she was either unconscious or semi conscience as a result of whatever we think he did to subdue her punch, hit with object etc. I think it's possible she may have been partially conscious and struggling. But was it at this time he picked her up over her shoulder or later after she is dead? I dont know and I can't remember the last part the whole question but it is about him coming to I think. He realized she was in the trunk, so this was after the assault and before he took her to the final location? I'm getting the order of things confused but for now I can't even think , I've heard some other interesting scenarios. Unfortunately we have a timeframe during the " blackout" that is hard to fill in.

 

[Stormy21]

I've been wondering if the other rage induced "blocked memories" involved fights with males. I know my grandfather refused to allow himself to lose his temper (and died from a heart attack at 57, probably at least partially because of it) because he lost it was as a young man and almost killed the guy he attacked. I have no idea if he blacked out when it happened since I was told it by a 3rd party, but rage can cause a person to do things that may be totally out of character under normal circumstances. I'm not making excuses for him; whether he remembers or not and whether he lost complete control or not, I still believe he is 100% responsible for what he did. MOO

Have heard this story before. I would say there is a 1/1000 chance maybe 1/10000 chance he 'blacked out'. Often that is an excuse.

People perform under stress - times of war, police, crisis and don't 'black out' however perform well. I suppose there is a chance of a panic attack happening, but even then it appears he drove a number of miles which is pretty hard to do 'blacked out'.

Sounds very fishy. Under those circumstances, nawwwwww

 

[Confusion]

I think he dragged her on foot is just a figure of speech and just means he dragged her into the secluded location where he assaulted her. It seems odd that they said on foot but I do think they were referring to him and not Mollie. I believe she was either unconscious or semi conscience as a result of whatever we think he did to subdue her punch, hit with object etc. I think it's possible she may have been partially conscious and struggling. But was it at this time he picked her up over her shoulder or later after she is dead? I dont know and I can't remember the last part the whole question but it is about him coming to I think. He realized she was in the trunk, so this was after the assault and before he took her to the final location? I'm getting the order of things confused but for now I can't even think , I've heard some other interesting scenarios. Unfortunately we have a timeframe during the " blackout" that is hard to fill in.

I think dragging her on foot simply means that he walked into the cornfield as opposed to driving into one and then getting her out of the car. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

 

[cluciano63]

Killing, and the necessity of hiding the body, probably provides the strength to carry more than one usually could do. A rage killing like this is not indicative of then asking for help covering up. It is a shameful crime, imo. It is not like covering up an accident or even an overdose.

I found that living alone after being married for many years, that when I really need to, I can move my couch or some other item I would never have even attempted before, as it is me or nobody. Not the same thing, I know. But still.

 

[Vedder]

I think dragging her on foot simply means that he walked into the cornfield as opposed to driving into one and then getting her out of the car. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

I agree.

 

[MassGuy]

I've been wondering if the other rage induced "blocked memories" involved fights with males. I know my grandfather refused to allow himself to lose his temper (and died from a heart attack at 57, probably at least partially because of it) because he lost it was as a young man and almost killed the guy he attacked. I have no idea if he blacked out when it happened since I was told it by a 3rd party, but rage can cause a person to do things that may be totally out of character under normal circumstances. I'm not making excuses for him; whether he remembers or not and whether he lost complete control or not, I still believe he is 100% responsible for what he did. MOO

I don’t discount that blackouts or “block outs” happen, but it’s such a common tactic among offenders (to claim memory loss), that I treat it with a great deal of skepticism. Regardless, as you say, he is completely responsible for his actions in Mollie’s murder.

 

[Stormy21]

Killing, and the necessity of hiding the body, probably provides the strength to carry more than one usually could do. A rage killing like this is not indicative of then asking for help covering up. It is a shameful crime, imo. It is not like covering up an accident or even an overdose.

I found that living alone after being married for many years, that when I really need to, I can move my couch or some other item I would never have even attempted before, as it is me or nobody. Not the same thing, I know. But still.

Handing over 4 Advil for your pain.