IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #42

[KaaBoom]

I just checked. In order to obtain a marriage license, a government issued photo ID and social security card is required in addition to a birth certificate. CR's SS and photo ID do not have the same name as his birth certificate.

Marriage Licenses » State of Iowa » Marriage Laws » IA

Your link says Social Security information is required, not a Social Security card.

 

[1987]

That totally depends on where you drive, what kind of car you drive, if your license plates are in the same state you drive in, and your race in that area. I haven't been pulled over in four years, and I speed all the time. But I live in a rural area with minimum law enforcement services, and I haven't driven out of state in the last four years. When I lived in the city, I got pulled over about once a year.

in the last 3 years I have driven across 27 states, some more than once, I have bought 2 cars and titled both of them, bought cigs, liquor, enrolled a child in school and I haven't shown my DL in 15 years except to renew it.

 

[SharonNeedles]

You know the area, of course, and the details of the SAs. I've read too many novels where all the plot lines have to tie into a neat bow. Real life, of course, isn't like that.

These reports have us a bit freaked out as well, but it’s been going on for years. When I see somebody pulled over, I stop and see if they need a hand. At one time everybody would do that. It came in handy when I broke down and needed a lift, the first car that came my way stopped and picked me up. But now we all tell our wives and girlfriends DO NOT STOP. Call the police and let them help. Even I won’t stop if I’ve got my kids with me.

If I ever turn up dead on the side of the road, chances are I stopped to help someone I thought needed assistance.

 

[Chichi baby]

YAETYO, but no, I am not blaming the victim. My posted speculation is a legitimate possibility of how it could have transpired. We can not simply ignore the actions of a victim as not having any effect whatsoever in the outcome of their situation. That's a shortsightedness that I refuse to accept as being helpful in sleuthing a case. In fact, it is detrimental as it prevents us from taking in to account all aspects of the case, and those aspects include actions of a victim.

Leave me alone or i'll call the police is an action to which this responds to hitting or abducting her? I dont see it. How would he respond to a no request for a date turn out? He obviously did not worry about the LE since he drove illegally along with everything else. He had fake ids.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree with you. He did know what he did was wrong. However, playing devil's advocate, he could have hidden the body because to have left it out, to have carried Mollie to a hospital after his initial attack and injury of her, would have meant he and his family would be outed as illegals (do we know if his uncle is illegal also?) Was he required to carry the secret to protect his family?

Sure, I’ll play. If CR was so highly concerned about himself and his family getting outed, then what motivated him to initially attack Mollie? Why wouldn’t he want to keep his nose clean for that very reason?

If his story is true, after running along side of her, she asked him to leave her alone or she’d call police, why didn’t he do what virtually all young men would do in that situation - apologize and immediately back off?

Because he also couldn’t have known in advance that at any moment a witness might’ve driven down that road, either called police or shot him to stop the attack.

What occurred is just so absolutely senseless.

 

[Confusion]

These reports have us a bit freaked out as well, but it’s been going on for years. When I see somebody pulled over, I stop and see if they need a hand. At one time everybody would do that. It came in handy when I broke down and needed a lift, the first car that came my way stopped and picked me up. But now we all tell our wives and girlfriends DO NOT STOP. Call the police and let them help. Even I won’t stop if I’ve got my kids with me.

If I ever turn up dead on the side of the road, chances are I stopped to help someone I thought needed assistance.

Things have definitely changed. When I was a teenager, I was told it was safer to pick up a male hitchhiker than a female one. The reason, which I doubt was true even then, was that a woman who wanted to cause harm would be more likely to have a weapon than a man. It didn't make any difference to me, I'd pick up anybody. I always thought I'd rather die trying to do some good for someone else than to have someone else die (heat stroke, freeze, hit by a car, etc.) because I wasn't willing to help. I also met some good friends that way.

 

[MyBelle]

Your link says Social Security information is required, not a Social Security card.

If the state uses e-verify it would have flagged it because it's a valid number under somebody else's name.

 

[pamelado2]

He wasn't brought here. He came here because he wanted to

How do you know that? I think a lot of people that come here to work and send money home to their families are pressured to do so. If his uncle brought him at 13 or 14 who's to say he had a choice?

 

[Jaclin]

in the last 3 years I have driven across 27 states, some more than once, I have bought 2 cars and titled both of them, bought cigs, liquor, enrolled a child in school and I haven't shown my DL in 15 years except to renew it.

I've gotten those flavored beer coolers without showing ID before right after turning 21, so not all workers care, and I know lots of places that only check ID if you look young. Otherwise, they'll just punch in the required birth date at the register. I actually think it's easier to consume beer or cigarettes under age than it is to get into the zoo with a membership card. Sometimes I even had to show ID to get into the parking lot. Now, I just hand them both cards so they don't have to ask.

 

[Crystal Regan]

No way he was stalking her and planned on abducting her that day. He is a sociopath and would do it again if he wasn't locked up. Don't blame all of this on having a bad day

I’ve had four bad days a month for the past thirty-two years and haven’t killed anyone.

 

[sbsuzilight]

I'm probably the only person to believe this, but I think there's a possibility that he hadn't set out that day to abduct or assault anyone. Don't throw any rotten eggs or tomatoes at me, I can't stand either! I was thinking he might just not be creative enough to make up a plausible story, so he more or less told the truth, but blocked out the parts that were hardest to admit to. Before I go any farther, I want to make it clear that what I'm about to say in no way excuses anything he did to MT during or after their encounter.

Maybe he had a lousy day, as many of us do, and decided to go for a drive to let off steam. When he saw MT running down the street looking happy, healthy and determined, it may have made him focus his anger/frustration on her. He drove by her several times while deciding what he wanted to do with her (like did he want to have a girl like her or did he want to destroy the symbol of what was missing in his life?) He really may have been dumb enough to think that she'd stop and talk with him if he approached her (but I really doubt it), but when she threatened to call the police it lit the fuse and he exploded. It wasn't because he was afraid of being deported or going to jail, and it wasn't that he felt rejected; it was more that it was one more frustration (the straw that broke the camel's back?) added to an already miserable day. That could account for why he doesn't appear to have had a plan laid out for what would happen once he got her.

I know many people who have tempers like that, but most haven't gone so far as to actually kill someone, yet. If he knew there was a possibility of totally losing control, he should never have gone near another person if he was in that kind of mood, and at his age, he should be aware of what he's capable of when he loses his temper. As I said, it wouldn't excuse anything he did, but it might help explain some of his weird actions. MOO

I agree. I also believe that there was no sexual assault. JMOO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't know if it's still being done now, but I know that years ago people would look through old newspapers (microfilms at the library, etc.) and find a baby who died around the time they were born. They'd then just order a copy of the birth certificate and use that to get a SS number, ID, license, etc. It was easy to do because birth records and death records weren't cross referenced anywhere. Are they now?

I have no idea why such online companies are allowed to operate but a google search yields several offers of online companies who blatantly advertise they sell fake ID, both driver’s licences and SSS. It’d be nice to think LE operates a sting connected to those website but I doubt it. Fake ID, fake money, fake documents and diplomas, it’s all there to be had in the www.

 

[katydid23]

I think the same thing too. If new evidence comes out that proves this line of thinking wrong, I'll go with it. But it just doesn't seem like he woke up that day saying "I'm gonna murder today!". He made some terrible choices that day which ended Mollies life. But I don't think it was planned.

I think he may have woken up that morning, thinking exactly that. ...There is a young woman saying he was following her in his car,in a previous incident, and it made her very uncomfortable. Shades of things to come...

It was no accident that he began following Mollie, slowly in his car. It's called stalking. It is predatory behavior. It is premeditated behavior.

She didn't knock on his door, drunk and stumble into his home that night. He didn't make a 'bad choice' when a situation suddenly unfolded into an opportunity.

He made a very long series of purposeful choices, which led to a planned out, well thought out, violent ending. JMO

 

[Al Hoffman]

A SS# is required for all dependents on tax returns. In Illinois where my GD was born last year, the hospital required my daughter to fill out the paperwork and the hospital filed it.

The hospital may require it, the State may require it, but the Feds don't require that a SSN be issued at birth. Get an attorney, contest it and see how fast the hospital admin lawyers up and runs. And you only need an SSN to take the kid as a deduction, otherwise the IRS doesn't care - more money for the Treasury. I would imagine you could even file with a dependent using an IRS issued tax payer ID number. No SSN required! It is a First Amendment issue.

 

[Peaches96]

I don't, I believe he was out "hunting". And I believe that he has done it before, and has not been caught.

He wanted to kill, and had a weapon to inflict bodily harm. He is a predator.

But, I think his weapon was a weapon of opportunity not something he necessarily carried with him with the intent to use it to kill. Lots of people carry knives and never stab anyone. Also, it could be some other sharp object because I don’t think the actual weapon was disclosed.

 

[KaaBoom]

If the state uses e-verify it would have flagged it because it's a valid number under somebody else's name.

Social Security information could be: "Social Security Number: None". You do not need to be a US citizen or have a Social Security Number to get married. You just need to provide the information.

 

[MsBetsy]

I totally agree with @Confusion. The most terrifying aspect of this case for me is that CR by all accounts seems to be a pretty good person. He's described as a caring and responsible father, a hard working and dependable employee, somebody with no criminal record - nobody really has anything bad to say about him. We all came here looking for a monster and I'm sorry if that's what you think you see, but everything about his life in Iowa is turning out to be pretty normal and unremarkable.

Obviously that changed very quickly and my heart breaks for Mollie and her family. And as a parent raising teenage girls in the area, this is truly the nightmare scenario for me. It was easier to think whoever did this to Mollie was some kind of creep, the kind of person we should know to stay away from. It's a lot harder to accept this could be... anybody. Never let your guard down, if this can happen here it can happen anywhere.

My opinion of him is not quite as generous. All his actions indicate to me that he has the mind of serial killer. His story to police, the victim blaming , the deceitfulness, the appearance of absolutely no emotion in court, his seemingly normal behavior for five weeks after the crime. He went back to work the next day and nobody noticed a thing about his behavior! A normal person would be gripped with guilt and anxiety. The fact that people say he was normal doesn't mean anything to me because people like this can be experts at mimicking perfectly normal behavior ( especially if he has one of the disorders I mentioned earlier) Everyone thought Jeffrey Dahmer was a normal guy. He was quiet too. Not saying Rivera is that extreme but in my opinion to attack and kill someone in such a frenzy and so viciously indicates to me that he does not value human life. He seemingly planned things pretty well, he had a good hiding spot and left little evidence. Then went about his normal routine like nothing happened. I think he WANTS us to believe he was just trying to be nice, got offended, angry, and snapped. I don't buy it. The murder itself was too vicious. He didn't just stab her a few times, he stabbed, chopped, or whatever he did, over and over again. How can one conceal the guilt and shame after doing something like that? He didn't have to. He didn't feel it in the first place. It was easy for him, in my opinion.

 

[mickey2942]

While this is out of scope for the subject of Mollie, I will give some clarity to a question about documentation.

1. Even "undocumented" immigrants, who did not pass inspection at a lawful border crossing usually have a birth certificate, and passport for their country of origin. They use those legal documents, to provide proof of age, or when they need to provide evidence of their name.
2. Those documents do not have a stamp, or Visa, meaning that they have not entered the country legally, but those documents are still valid for identification.
3. In order to work, legally, a person needs a Green card, given by USCIS, this is accomplished by entering the country legally or marrying a US citizen, and filing the appropriate documents.

 

[MyBelle]

The hospital may require it, the State may require it, but the Feds don't require that a SSN be issued at birth. Get an attorney, contest it and see how fast the hospital admin lawyers up and runs. And you only need an SSN to take the kid as a deduction, otherwise the IRS doesn't care - more money for the Treasury. I would imagine you could even file with a dependent using an IRS issued tax payer ID number. No SSN required! It is a First Amendment issue.

Jeez, it is so much easier obtaining a SS# at birth because the hospital files it for you. Doing it yourself is an incredible, time-consuming, document producing hassle.

 

[Al Hoffman]

(Just now doing a ton of catch-up reading of this thread, so someone else could have already replied to this...) Had CR taken Sharon Needles' M2 route, CR could have completely avoided passing the Pilot truck stop (near I-80), complete with the potential for either cameras (yet perhaps he took no thought of cameras, based on what we have already observed in retrospect) or being stopped for just "whatever" (i. e., a basic traffic violation -- say, a tail light out, etc.). Yet...if indeed CR *were* "blocked out" (from between MT's jogging route and the Guernsey farm location), then...how could CR have made the active decision to "avoid" specific areas or intersections? That would be a moot point, since his conscience also would be "blocked out". JMOO.

And if MT were still alive and functioning in the trunk, she could have been tearing out the tail/brake light wiring to attract LE attention, if LE were anywhere around to see. Exam of the trunk is going to prove interesting.