IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #42

[Gardenista]

Illegals live in a complicated world, one misstep could cost them everything. You hear it thrown around that illegals actually commit less crime than legal citizens, that’s why. If I were to get pulled over for a DUI the consequences for first offense would cost me thousands, but for an illegal it would cost them their home, their job, their family - everything. That’s a fear that hangs over them every single day. I don’t know if that dictated CR’s actions or not, but the minute he laid his hands on Mollie those fears were realized. At that point it’s game over for him.

This is literally impossible to know because they simply change identities.

 

[pamelado2]

What? Are you serious? He took what he wanted, when he wanted it. He got a 17 year old girl pregnant whenhe could have been responsible and worn condoms. I'm sure IM didnt want to have a baby at her young age. What a fine upstanding young man? Here illegally, fake ids, no license, no insurance, nothing. Then he chooses to take a woman while jogging because he can. He thinks he is entitled. He set out to have sex by any means he had to. Thats it. Btw, i blocked out after my previous post because I was so angry and just now came to.

I'm not sure how you can tie all those things into him being a horrible person. He's horrible because of the murder. You can't lump every action of a murderer together and say they are just stepping stones to the murder. Getting a girl pregnant 5 years ago because he wouldn't wear condoms, pure speculation. Why would her family speak so highly of him if he was so horrible for the last 5 years?
I don't know when or how he turned into this person but IMO based on what's been said he hasn't been this guy forever. Which is actually more common for a murderer than someone who has the propensity all along.

 

[Gardenista]

YAETYO, but no, I am not blaming the victim. My posted speculation is a legitimate possibility of how it could have transpired. We can not simply ignore the actions of a victim as not having any effect whatsoever in the outcome of their situation. That's a shortsightedness that I refuse to accept as being helpful in sleuthing a case. In fact, it is detrimental as it prevents us from taking in to account all aspects of the case, and those aspects include actions of a victim.

Like I said...

 

[Al Hoffman]

Jeez, it is so much easier obtaining a SS# at birth because the hospital files it for you. Doing it yourself is an incredible, time-consuming, document producing hassle.

Right, but it is not required by Federal law. It is a First Amendment issue, over the Mark of the Beast issues.

 

[1987]

even if the hospital requires a ss# at birth today or at least strongly suggest it, things haven't always been that way. I think it would be easy to slide under the rules and laws of having ID as long as you were careful of what you done and be willing to be restricted in what you could do. yes a ss# for employment would be a have to. other have to have id would be utilities but if employer was providing living space and utilities then that would eliminate that. we all know it is against the law to not have car ins and to drive without a DL, but that only matters if you care that you are breaking the law.

 

[MyBelle]

Social Security information could be: "Social Security Number: None". You do not need to be a US citizen or have a Social Security Number to get married. You just need to provide the information.

You also need a birth certificate plus a valid, government issued photo ID. Which CR doesn't have.

 

[human]

bbm


This really bothers me: CR worked 4+ years under a "forged ID"?
Did every/anyone CR worked with refer to him by his 'forged' name or his 'real' name?
Did CR ever attend work-related gatherings with friends and/or family?

I believe answers to those questions are important because they could be aspects of the overall catalyst of why CR felt he had to murder MT.

How does that happen?

Don’t people have nicknames? Being called by another name is not anything strange or unusual. It would not raise any red flags.

 

[human]

You also need a birth certificate plus a valid, government issued photo ID. Which CR doesn't have.

Is he getting married?

 

[Chichi baby]

My opinion of him is not quite as generous. All his actions indicate to me that he has the mind of serial killer. His story to police, the victim blaming , the deceitfulness, the appearance of absolutely no emotion in court, his seemingly normal behavior for five weeks after the crime. He went back to work the next day and nobody noticed a thing about his behavior! A normal person would be gripped with guilt and anxiety. The fact that people say he was normal doesn't mean anything to me because people like this can be experts at mimicking perfectly normal behavior ( especially if he has one of the disorders I mentioned earlier) Everyone thought Jeffrey Dahmer was a normal guy. He was quiet too. Not saying Rivera is that extreme but in my opinion to attack and kill someone in such a frenzy and so viciously indicates to me that he does not value human life. He seemingly planned things pretty well, he had a good hiding spot and left little evidence. Then went about his normal routine like nothing happened. I think he WANTS us to believe he was just trying to be nice, got offended, angry, and snapped. I don't buy it. The murder itself was too vicious. He didn't just stab her a few times, he stabbed, chopped, or whatever he did, over and over again. How can one conceal the guilt and shame after doing something like that? He didn't have to. He didn't feel it in the first place. It was easy for him, in my opinion.

Well said and I totally agree!!

 

[ChuckMaureen]

AND all of this has to do with ID of patrons on premesis, and says nothing about sale or service of Alcohol, another matter entirely. In all 50 states you must have a State approved ID to BUY a drink of alcohol. If not the seller can lose his Licence!

Nothing in the Liquor Code or the PLCB’s Regulations requires patrons to possess valid identification while on licensed premises.

In Pennsylvania, that applies to on-site and off-site consumption retailers as both are "licensed." No distinction is made. Licensees are liable for service to minors and they institute their own policies for verification. The ID required must be valid, but again, there is nothing in PA code that requires patrons carry an ID.

And the exceptions:

A wine expanded permit holder (whether on-site or off-site consumption) must use a transaction scan device to verity the age of anyone who appears to be under thirty-five years old. 47 P.S. § 4-415(a)(8),(9).

 

[katydid23]

I totally agree with @Confusion. The most terrifying aspect of this case for me is that CR by all accounts seems to be a pretty good person. He's described as a caring and responsible father, a hard working and dependable employee, somebody with no criminal record - nobody really has anything bad to say about him. We all came here looking for a monster and I'm sorry if that's what you think you see, but everything about his life in Iowa is turning out to be pretty normal and unremarkable.

Obviously that changed very quickly and my heart breaks for Mollie and her family. And as a parent raising teenage girls in the area, this is truly the nightmare scenario for me. It was easier to think whoever did this to Mollie was some kind of creep, the kind of person we should know to stay away from. It's a lot harder to accept this could be... anybody. Never let your guard down, if this can happen here it can happen anywhere.

It is really hard for me to classify this murderer as ' a pretty good person.'

He is a dependable worker, other than the fact he is using a STOLEN Identity, and fake social security number.

We have no idea if he has a criminal record somewhere or not because he uses fake id's and may have cases we don't know about.

I don't see how we can say he is pretty 'normal.' There is nothing 'normal' about the way he brutalized Mollie that night. And I shiver to think about the violence she endured.

IF it was one of your daughters that he hunted down that night, would you still call him a pretty normal, Ok,good guy?

I am not going to normalize his vicious predatory behavior.

 

[MsBetsy]

A terrible choice is deciding to drive down a icy road with poor tires and accidently killing someone. This was cold blooded murder.

I agree. I also don't think he believes it was a terrible choice either. He had every intention of killing her, imo. In fact I would guess he thought his choice of victim was actually a very good one, otherwise he wouldn't have killed her after stalking her for two days.

 

[MistyWaters]

His method of killing and the numerous stab wounds is telling...

This is the person who took Mollie’s life!


The close contact required with stabbings could mean more rage, experts say.

"Anytime somebody commits a murder or assault, either by choking, stabbing or making bodily contact, it always speaks to a level of rage and perhaps a personal connection to the victim that shooting with a gun does not," said Naftali Berrill, a forensic psychologist in New York City.

"When you are stabbing someone, it's close and in your face.

The experience is more visceral and more graphic, more provocative.

It speaks emotionality, whether rage or paranoia."



Knife vs. Gun: What a Weapon Reveals

The cause of death associated with rage also supports his admission that he was mad and very upset.

On the last thread a poster familiar the Spanish language translated what the English word “blocking” might’ve referred to in CRs home country and iirc it’s connected to personally rooted rage as well.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Social Security information could be: "Social Security Number: None". You do not need to be a US citizen or have a Social Security Number to get married. You just need to provide the information.

Do you need a SSN to work tho? For taxes withholding?

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree. I also don't think he believes it was a terrible choice either. He had every intention of killing her, imo. In fact I would guess he thought his choice of victim was actually a very good one, otherwise he wouldn't have killed her after stalking her for two days.

How do we know he stalked her for two days?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Leave me alone or i'll call the police is an action to which this responds to hitting or abducting her? I dont see it. How would he respond to a no request for a date turn out? He obviously did not worry about the LE since he drove illegally along with everything else. He had fake ids.

I suppose if you had a lifestyle-threatening event in your life that meant losing everything you had you might have a different perspective.

 

[Deleted member 718]

I agree. I also believe that there was no sexual assault. JMOO.

When he turned to follow her, I believe his motive was sexual. Whether that occurred or not, I'm not sure. I think there was a huge struggle near the car. After that, was it still 'game on' or did he default to a cover up plan?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Like I said...

Like I said, as well.

 

[1987]

You also need a birth certificate plus a valid, government issued photo ID. Which CR doesn't have.

it does not have to be US issued. a valid ID could be from anywhere. do you think no person from overseas ever gets married here?

 

[MassGuy]

I'm not sure how you can tie all those things into him being a horrible person. He's horrible because of the murder. You can't lump every action of a murderer together and say they are just stepping stones to the murder. Getting a girl pregnant 5 years ago because he wouldn't wear condoms, pure speculation. Why would her family speak so highly of him if he was so horrible for the last 5 years?
I don't know when or how he turned into this person but IMO based on what's been said he hasn't been this guy forever. Which is actually more common for a murderer than someone who has the propensity all along.

This guy committed what is almost certainly, a sexually motivated murder. This doesn’t come out of nowhere, and there will be past behaviors that show a propensity for criminal activity (sexual harassment, assaults, stalking, peeping, etc).

But you’re right. Taking one particular past action and saying that it was a sign of things to come, isn’t a solid approach. Getting a girlfriend pregnant isn’t a good example, but something like abusive behavior towards her, would be.