IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #42

[MsBetsy]

Ok. Folks are having trouble with the term stalking. Here is Blacks Law Divtionary definition:

STALK

THELAW.COM LAW DICTIONARY & BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY 2ND ED.

To follow, watch and observe another person in a manner that is disturbing to the person being observed.

Here’s advice to be helpful:

Being stalked is a more common occurrence than many people think. The most important thing is to reach out and tell someone what you believe is happening. While it is almost always creepy and annoying, being stalked could be a precursor to more violent or serious crimes. While it may start relatively harmlessly – you see the same person in the same place every day, multiple times per day – it could potentially progress.

Do you think it may have happened

Once. ?

Twice. ?

Once a week. ?


A whole bunch. ?

Right, and often people don't even realize they are being stalked, especially if they are not observant. The misunderstanding, I think, is that people have been using another version of stalking, which is to imply a predator stalking, hunting, and chasing down their prey. This is fine too, since it appears that is exactly what Rivera did to Mollie! Imo

 

[FrostedGlass]

I snipped the quote and bolded the part of interest. IMO he worked in another state for the first 3 years he was here but was always under the radar. Because his father said he would have come home if he did what he's accused of, IMO he has done that before when he got in trouble. LE would not release his fake name/names because they are gathering info, IMO.

A Mexican man charged with killing an Iowa college student worked on a dairy farm for years under a false name
...
When Rivera was hired in 2014, he presented an out-of-state government-issued photo identification and a matching Social Security card, he said.

That information was run through the Social Security Administration's employment-verification system and checked out, he said.

Mollie Tibbetts murder suspect worked under fake name

 

[kpm]

Was that the one who also said he was a "clean cut American person?"

I know his first lawyer said this, which IMO he said knowing it would inflame the situation and make headlines!

CR is not a BOY either, he’s a grown man with a child


“He was just a part of the community.

An all-American boy working really hard.”



Mollie Tibbetts' Suspected Murderer Is a 'Young Man' with No Prior Record, Defense Argues

 

[MsBetsy]

I do think we will come to find he “watched” Mollie and others from afar, if stories are true, he even approached some and contacted some on SM.

I think at the very least there could be a pattern of admiring from distance and approaching others

My bet is the DA will lay that all out with video and testimony

I think we may have some concrete evidence of that as well. Since he knew exactly where to find her on the day he murdered her, especially well enough to know that she would be in an isolated area, I believe he was waiting for that moment to act. Imo just because LE has not come right out and said, "We have evidence that he was watching her prior to the day of the murder", doesn't mean it could not have happened.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Ok. Folks are having trouble with the term stalking. Here is Blacks Law Divtionary definition:

STALK

THELAW.COM LAW DICTIONARY & BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY 2ND ED.

To follow, watch and observe another person in a manner that is disturbing to the person being observed.

Here’s advice to be helpful:

Being stalked is a more common occurrence than many people think. The most important thing is to reach out and tell someone what you believe is happening. While it is almost always creepy and annoying, being stalked could be a precursor to more violent or serious crimes. While it may start relatively harmlessly – you see the same person in the same place every day, multiple times per day – it could potentially progress.

Do you think it may have happened

Once. ?

Twice. ?

Once a week. ?


A whole bunch. ?

I haven’t seen anything to indicate CR did anything that could even remotely be considered stalking prior to the day he abducted Mollie. I also haven’t seen anything to indicate he planned on doing anything. All indications are that when CR began harassing Mollie it was totally opportunistic, I don’t even he had any idea what was about to go down. It hurts to think there are probably a hundred variables that all could have played out differently and prevented this outcome.

 

[MsBetsy]

I know his first lawyer said this, which IMO he said knowing it would inflame the situation and make headlines!

CR is not a BOY either, he’s a grown man with a child


“He was just a part of the community.

An all-American boy working really hard.”



Mollie Tibbetts' Suspected Murderer Is a 'Young Man' with No Prior Record, Defense Argues

Oh, I didn't even know about That! I was referring to the NY Times article in which the clerk in a grocery store described him in those words. I guess many people thought of him in that way! Strange.

 

[Bravo]

That's your opinion. Except for the fact that he's a murderer and to blame.
And by the way, your personality is not set at birth.

Agree. We can debate the nature/nurture issue until the end of time. I typically believe it's a bit of both. Typically.

 

[kpm]

I snipped the quote and bolded the part of interest. IMO he worked in another state for the first 3 years he was here but was always under the radar. Because his father said he would have come home if he did what he's accused of, IMO he has done that before when he got in trouble. LE would not release his fake name/names because they are gathering info, IMO.

I thought that too, but reading other the article about his family being baffled, his dad states he picked Iowa because family was there.

His uncle worked at the same farm as well

There is a time gap of what he was up to the years before, he’s been here almost 8 years if he came at about 16, like his dad said, worked at the farm for 4.....what was he doing before that?

 

[Al Hoffman]

It would be of interest to find out which App Mollie was using.

Or if she even had the run feature engaged on her app (as in the FitBit app, where the run feature must be engaged to track a run with GPS coordinates) at the time of her abduction. We all assume that she did, but no one but FitBit and LE know for sure.

Then again, FitBit like certain Google apps may record and upload to the cloud a continuous data stream that contains a lot more GPS data than the user knows about or would allow.

It was recently revealed, in MSM, that Google apps continue to record GPS data even after that feature is turned off.

Also, a MSM article up thread said that GM On Star records and stores auto location data even if there is no current On Star service plan.

While some of this digital data may be subject to a Frye hearing before being admitted to court, if indeed these additional digital footprints do exist, there is a building wall of digital data that will greatly help to secure CR's conviction of the Homicide in the First Degree conviction.

 

[kpm]

Right, and often people don't even realize they are being stalked, especially if they are not observant. The misunderstanding, I think, is that people have been using another version of stalking, which is to imply a predator stalking, hunting, and chasing down their prey. This is fine too, since it appears that is exactly what Rivera did to Mollie! Imo

Especially in a small town, you see the same faces everywhere you go, it might not seem out of the ordinary like it would in a larger town if the same guy kept popping up in the same places.

 

[pamelado2]

I think you are right. I'm amazed that so many posters don't see that as victim blaming, or making excuses for his behavior, or assuming it impossible that this guy MAY have been previously watching her or planning to murder her. This is exactly what his behavior suggests to me, as well as the fact that he didn't seem bothered by what he had done at all. Jmo

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that murderers can't be "nice guys" - either to some people in their lives or for a portion of their lives? All murderers are not necessarily horrible monsters their entire lives.
Personally, I don't think CW would have ever done to a stranger what he did to his family. I think it's also possible that CR would have never done to a family member/friend what he did to Mollie.
Is it any wonder that these guys have been described as nice or good fathers? People always hide the worst of themselves if possible.

I also personally believe very few evil people start out as evil.

 

[kpm]

But Mr. Bahena Rivera’s quiet demeanor sometimes stood out in jarring ways.

A neighbor said he did not always follow the local custom of acknowledging him when Mr. Bahena Rivera drove by in a Chevy Malibu.

And, more alarmingly, a woman said he made her uncomfortable with a romantic advance and repeated Facebook messages in the middle of the night.

“He would just stare. He wouldn’t really like talk,” said the woman, Brooke Bestell, 20, who had turned Mr. Bahena Rivera down when he asked her out on a date. “Something about him was off.”

Others found his behavior more troubling. Ms. Bestell, the acquaintance who declined a date with him, said he would not make conversation when she encountered him in person, but he would send repeated social media messages over a period of months.

“Just over and over, like every week or so, he would message me again,” Ms. Bestell said, including as recently as June 13 at 3 a.m.

After he was arrested, two of Ms. Bestell’s friends told her that he had also messaged them online over the years. “I don’t know how many other girls he probably was trying to talk to,” she said.


"I know Cristhian from my sister. She thought he was a nice, well-spoken person. They hung out a few times but nothing really happened romantically," Gibson said.

She started feeling uncomfortable around Rivera after he approached her in a manner similar to how he approached Tibbetts.

It was more flirty than sexual but my sister is very shy.She didn’t appreciate it."

"She told me that a little while ago he drove up to her while she was walking through Brooklyn," Gibson said. "He told her she was really pretty and things like that. It was more flirty than sexual but my sister is very shy. She didn’t appreciate it."

"Even though she knew him a little she felt unsafe and didn't want to talk to him. In the end, she was really creeped out by his behavior. She had to keep telling him she wasn't interested."


Another man — who was only identified as Justin — claimed that Rivera followed his fiancée in his car.



“I remember her calling me when she noticed how slow he was driving by in circles, turning around the block to keep up with her several times on her walk home,” he said.

“I vividly remember one day, it was around sunset or just after, my fiancée called because she was scared."

Justin said she was returning from getting groceries when Rivera drove past her at least six times.

"Now it’s really strange because of how long he’s been driving around like that. It makes you wonder if Mollie was his only victim.”




How the Suspect in Mollie Tibbetts’s Death Built a Life in an Iowa Farm Town


New Details About Cristhian Rivera's Unsettling History — Including How He Followed Another Teen Girl In His Car Before Killing Mollie Tibbetts

 

[FrostedGlass]

I thought that too, but reading other the article about his family being baffled, his dad states he picked Iowa because family was there.

His uncle worked at the same farm as well

There is a time gap of what he was up to the years before, he’s been here almost 8 years if he came at about 16, like his dad said, worked at the farm for 4.....what was he doing before that?

The first time I saw the length of time he's been here, it was stated 4-7 years. I think that's strange... the only way that could happen is if he left during that time, IMO.

I also find it hard to believe that none of his associates knew his status.

 

[kpm]

Oh, I didn't even know about That! I was referring to the NY Times article in which the clerk in a grocery store described him in those words. I guess many people thought of him in that way! Strange.

I went back to look for her comment, which really makes no sense, lol.



Because they spoke Spanish and most store employees did not, she said, they did not talk at length with staff.

“I thought he seemed like a very nice person — a clean-cut, American person,” Ms. Seaton said.



How the Suspect in Mollie Tibbetts’s Death Built a Life in an Iowa Farm Town

 

[zecats]

I think we may have some concrete evidence of that as well. Since he knew exactly where to find her on the day he murdered her, especially well enough to know that she would be in an isolated area, I believe he was waiting for that moment to act. Imo just because LE has not come right out and said, "We have evidence that he was watching her prior to the day of the murder", doesn't mean it could not have happened.

I do think it’s also a possibility, however, that he spotted her when he was in town for another reason, then began to follow her in anticipation of where she might run. Or even that he came into town to check around for her. He circled around in his car waiting to see IF she would go in a more isolated direction. Then he made his move. It doesn’t to me show any concrete evidence that he knew exactly where to find her and where she would run.

 

[pamelado2]

Agree. We can debate the nature/nurture issue until the end of time. I typically believe it's a bit of both. Typically.

I agree and I think that's the general consensus.

 

[kpm]

The first time I saw the length of time he's been here, it was stated 4-7 years. I think that's strange... the only way that could happen is if he left during that time, IMO.

I also find it hard to believe that none of his associates knew his status.

Is uncle certainly knew his status and worked on the same farm, they cover up for each other, no one is going to spill the beans.

Someone guided the 16 year old in how to obtain fake/false ID and SS

 

[The Farm]

I also find it hard to believe that none of his associates knew his status.

Of course they knew his status, I do not think we are going to get much truth out of his "associates".

 

[Al Hoffman]

Agree. We can debate the nature/nurture issue until the end of time. I typically believe it's a bit of both. Typically.

Genetics builds the ship of our psyche and sets the heading of our personality development, but the winds of life and the interaction of the individual with the world at large steers the course. You become what you allow yourself to become, as Captain of the Ship.

 

[Leney]

I haven’t seen anything to indicate CR did anything that could even remotely be considered stalking prior to the day he abducted Mollie. I also haven’t seen anything to indicate he planned on doing anything. All indications are that when CR began harassing Mollie it was totally opportunistic, I don’t even he had any idea what was about to go down. It hurts to think there are probably a hundred variables that all could have played out differently and prevented this outcome.

Stalking happens more than one knows and comes in many forms.
MT was active on social media, and it would of been one method he could of used to track her.
Next would be anyone close to her such as her bf, family, & close friends.

 

[MsBetsy]

It’s confusing!

The map seems like the distances are much further

I think he would see her often and when he was visiting his daughter as well

I also agree with you that CR was attempting to blame her, it was her fault in his mind that he got mad, blocked out and committed his heinous act.

We all know that’s total BS but that’s what many abusers do!

Very true. In the world I live in, every body tends to shift the blame onto someone else. It's human nature. I can't tell you how many times I hear people do it. Just the other day, at a soccer game someone said to his wife, " was that a goal? Did it make it in? Are you even paying attention?" and the wife said, I don't know, you asked me to get a drink out of the cooler, so I missed it!" In a very subtle way they are both blaming each other. I was trying to make this point the other day, and many didn't understand, so hopefully this is a better example. Just to be clear, I am just referring to shifting the blame, not correlating that with what Mollie or Rivera said or did or even " blaming the victim" , just giving an example of how we do this in subtle ways. I know people say they would never do this and take responsibility for their own actions, but in my world it happens everyday . So that being said, I will again state my belief that when Rivera said her threatening to call police made him angry, he is, although subtle, blaming the victim for his actions. Jmo