IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #42

[MsBetsy]

But Mr. Bahena Rivera’s quiet demeanor sometimes stood out in jarring ways.

A neighbor said he did not always follow the local custom of acknowledging him when Mr. Bahena Rivera drove by in a Chevy Malibu.

And, more alarmingly, a woman said he made her uncomfortable with a romantic advance and repeated Facebook messages in the middle of the night.

“He would just stare. He wouldn’t really like talk,” said the woman, Brooke Bestell, 20, who had turned Mr. Bahena Rivera down when he asked her out on a date. “Something about him was off.”

Others found his behavior more troubling. Ms. Bestell, the acquaintance who declined a date with him, said he would not make conversation when she encountered him in person, but he would send repeated social media messages over a period of months.

“Just over and over, like every week or so, he would message me again,” Ms. Bestell said, including as recently as June 13 at 3 a.m.

After he was arrested, two of Ms. Bestell’s friends told her that he had also messaged them online over the years. “I don’t know how many other girls he probably was trying to talk to,” she said.


"I know Cristhian from my sister. She thought he was a nice, well-spoken person. They hung out a few times but nothing really happened romantically," Gibson said.

She started feeling uncomfortable around Rivera after he approached her in a manner similar to how he approached Tibbetts.

It was more flirty than sexual but my sister is very shy.She didn’t appreciate it."

"She told me that a little while ago he drove up to her while she was walking through Brooklyn," Gibson said. "He told her she was really pretty and things like that. It was more flirty than sexual but my sister is very shy. She didn’t appreciate it."

"Even though she knew him a little she felt unsafe and didn't want to talk to him. In the end, she was really creeped out by his behavior. She had to keep telling him she wasn't interested."


Another man — who was only identified as Justin — claimed that Rivera followed his fiancée in his car.



“I remember her calling me when she noticed how slow he was driving by in circles, turning around the block to keep up with her several times on her walk home,” he said.

“I vividly remember one day, it was around sunset or just after, my fiancée called because she was scared."

Justin said she was returning from getting groceries when Rivera drove past her at least six times.

"Now it’s really strange because of how long he’s been driving around like that. It makes you wonder if Mollie was his only victim.”




How the Suspect in Mollie Tibbetts’s Death Built a Life in an Iowa Farm Town


New Details About Cristhian Rivera's Unsettling History — Including How He Followed Another Teen Girl In His Car Before Killing Mollie Tibbetts

Yes, although we dont know if all these stories are true, I especially noticed the person who described him as not greeting him in the local custom and others describing his behavior as being "off. This, to me is one other thing to suggest a personality disorder. Alone it doesn't mean much, but put together with the lack of apparent guilt, remorse, doesn't seem to value human life, lying, deceitfulness, it sure sounds like it to me. Jmo

 

[jillycat]

I don't understand the effort to give him the benefit of the doubt and look through the lens of his feelings.

Trolling and circling, and (maybe) chasing her down on foot, isn't reflective of a desire to just be social or date a woman. Any rebuff or 'leave me alone' message in reaction to his behavior isn't a "lifestyle-threatening event" for him. Murder 1, now that's a lifestyle ender.

Presumably we all agree that there are crimes of passion, or events that can escalate leading to harm and even death, and that what someone does in an extreme situation under extreme fear can be different than what they'd do normally. I just don't see how that applies here.

It's untenable that someone with so much to lose would engage in a sequence of risky behaviors so likely to threaten his lifestyle, then carry out a vicious crime to hold onto his life as he knows it.

It's as if we need to understand his perspective, where his years of pretense and hiding could have gone on indefinitely if only Mollie hadn't reacted negatively to his predator weirdness, and his only option was to abduct and stab her to death.

 

[Mica]

According to the arrest warrant, CR has admitted to having panicked and got mad and that he then “blocked” his “memory” which is what he does when he gets very upset and doesn’t remember anything....

If CR is telling the truth, what other events in his past were responsible for him having a “blocked memory?”

 

[kpm]

Yes, although we dont know if all these stories are true, I especially noticed the person who described him as not greeting him in the local custom and others describing his behavior as being "off. This, to me is one other thing to suggest a personality disorder. Alone it doesn't mean much, but put together with the lack of apparent guilt, remorse, doesn't seem to value human life, lying, deceitfulness, it sure sounds like it to me. Jmo

I’ve watched his court video several times, I see someone who knew how to conduct himself in a court of law and how to refer to his attorney before answering the Judge.

I don’t see remorse for what he did, IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m just referring to the people who have come forward so far claiming his advances were unwanted and creepy.

I never said his intent with the others indicated murder, obviously they are still alive after refusing him.

But he his apparent approach to meeting females creeped some of them out, that does play into how he approached Mollie that evening, IMO.

Yes that’s certainly possible. On the other hand it might be there was nothing at all known about CR that ever gave indication that he was capable of committing such an atrocity.

My immediate thought when I read those type of it-could-of-been-me media reports is if CR was aggressive or creepy and they felt even remotely in danger, why didn’t any of those other females report the incident to police at the time it happened?

 

[kpm]

According to the arrest warrant, CR has admitted to having panicked and got mad and that he then “blocked” his “memory” which is what he does when he gets very upset and doesn’t remember anything....

If CR is telling the truth, what other events in his past were responsible for him having a “blocked memory?”

Exactly!

And why did is dad think if he did “that” he would have just come back home to Mexico?

 

[kpm]

Yes that’s certainly possible. On the other hand it might be there was nothing at all known about CR that ever gave indication that he was capable of committing such an atrocity.

My immediate thought when I read those type of it-could-of-been-me media reports is if CR was aggressive or creepy and they felt even remotely in danger, why didn’t any of those other females report the incident to police at the time it happened?

Because he backed off?

Not many people go to the police just because a guy was creepy and said something to them.

 

[FrostedGlass]

According to the arrest warrant, CR has admitted to having panicked and got mad and that he then “blocked” his “memory” which is what he does when he gets very upset and doesn’t remember anything....

If CR is telling the truth, what other events in his past were responsible for him having a “blocked memory?”

If only the cows could talk. I bet he's beaten the daylights out of at least one of them a time or two.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Yes, although we dont know if all these stories are true, I especially noticed the person who described him as not greeting him in the local custom and others describing his behavior as being "off. This, to me is one other thing to suggest a personality disorder. Alone it doesn't mean much, but put together with the lack of apparent guilt, remorse, doesn't seem to value human life, lying, deceitfulness, it sure sounds like it to me. Jmo

This “local custom” of acknowledging your neighbor when you drive by in the two-finger wave. I don’t follow that custom either, it’s kind of silly.

 

[rebel123]

I’ve watched his court video several times, I see someone who knew how to conduct himself in a court of law and how to refer to his attorney before answering the Judge.

I don’t see remorse for what he did, IMO

He's chained up, the courtroom has cameras. the Judge didn't ask him if he was 'remorseful' for his actions; I don't think you can get a lot from that Hearing.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't understand the effort to give him the benefit of the doubt and look through the lens of his feelings.

Trolling and circling, and (maybe) chasing her down on foot, isn't reflective of a desire to just be social or date a woman. Any rebuff or 'leave me alone' message in reaction to his behavior isn't a "lifestyle-threatening event" for him. Murder 1, now that's a lifestyle ender.

Presumably we all agree that there are crimes of passion, or events that can escalate leading to harm and even death, and that what someone does in an extreme situation under extreme fear can be different than what they'd do normally. I just don't see how that applies here.

It's untenable that someone with so much to lose would engage in a sequence of risky behaviors so likely to threaten his lifestyle, then carry out a vicious crime to hold onto his life as he knows it.

It's as if we need to understand his perspective, where his years of pretense and hiding could have gone on indefinitely if only Mollie hadn't reacted negatively to his predator weirdness, and his only option was to abduct and stab her to death.

The pattern I think LE will find is a young man with very serious issues involving lack of ability to control anger that ignites into a dangerous blind rage. Unpredictable, what’s sometimes referred to as someone who is a loose cannon.

Multiple sharp force injuries inflicted, generally known as overkill.

 

[Deleted member 718]

I suppose I could ask the question - why do we care if CR “blamed” Mollie?

That’s still no excuse for murder.

That's what I'm wondering. It seems to hold little importance in the grand scheme of things. (name that case!) He had no regard for her life, he freaking murdered her. It's so very far beyond 'did he blame her".

"Rapists nurture a lot of rage against their targets, habitually referring to them disdainfully and abusively, almost dehumanising them as a base object of desire. They have an insatiable sadistic desire to enact their sexual fantasies, mostly violent, bloody outrage; this sets them apart from a normal person. A normal person may indulge in wild fantasies of lurid sexual encounters, it’s only the rapist who works tirelessly towards realising it."

Newslaundry | Sabki Dhulai

 

[SharonNeedles]

I don't understand the effort to give him the benefit of the doubt and look through the lens of his feelings.

Trolling and circling, and (maybe) chasing her down on foot, isn't reflective of a desire to just be social or date a woman. Any rebuff or 'leave me alone' message in reaction to his behavior isn't a "lifestyle-threatening event" for him. Murder 1, now that's a lifestyle ender.

Presumably we all agree that there are crimes of passion, or events that can escalate leading to harm and even death, and that what someone does in an extreme situation under extreme fear can be different than what they'd do normally. I just don't see how that applies here.

It's untenable that someone with so much to lose would engage in a sequence of risky behaviors so likely to threaten his lifestyle, then carry out a vicious crime to hold onto his life as he knows it.

It's as if we need to understand his perspective, where his years of pretense and hiding could have gone on indefinitely if only Mollie hadn't reacted negatively to his predator weirdness, and his only option was to abduct and stab her to death.

I don’t think anybody here is giving him the benefit of the doubt, and I for one certainly couldn’t care less about his feelings. Nobody doubts his guilt, nobody feels sorry for him.

That said, there’s no reason to twist his history before the murder into a narrative that says he must have been a creepy stalker monster all along and probably planned this for years. He doesn’t seem to be that way at all. He could be the guy that lives right down the street from you that smiles and waves when you run into him at the grocery store. And that should scare the hell out of you more than any monster you were hoping to find.

 

[MsBetsy]

I’ve watched his court video several times, I see someone who knew how to conduct himself in a court of law and how to refer to his attorney before answering the Judge.

I don’t see remorse for what he did, IMO

I saw the same thing. Very cold. No emotion. Not much in his eyes at all. I was surprised when some posters actually said he looked scared or " terrified" because the poor guy didn't understand what was going on!

 

[Al Hoffman]

BBM


He "flew mad" -- emphasis on the "mad". That is not what he called it, and I have no idea the official name professionals would use. However, I have seen it happen.

Whatever sets him off, he goes berserk. Now, the person I know is mainly verbal. His family always blamed the mother because he was a sickly baby who was coddled, doted on and never made to rein himself in.

I can not tell you that's what happened with CR. However, with the fella I knew any little thing, out of the blue, could set him off. Even as an adult, he occasionally hit people and lost jobs but charges were never pressed.

Usually, the explosion came after a period of "build up" and the person he exploded on was not the culprit -- just the receivee. And that makes we wonder about the WSer who suspects MT's death might have something to do with the ex-GF.

Another person has pointed out the stress of leading a hidden secret life where someone can lose everything the second of exposure. . . .

Now, CR has proven he's not safe to be allowed out. Who knows when the fuse will get lit and the dynamite explode on another innocent? He must be kept locked up, IMO

However, as much as I respect Sharon Needles' take on his section of Iowa (and I have enormous respect and belief in your "gut" feeling, SN), I still sort of expect we'll learn of other victims of CR. Or even if we never hear of them, I will suspect they are there.

Prob not the SA victims in neighboring counties. I trust SN's analysis of that -- subject to both of us being proven wrong, of course.

However, CR "lost it" literally -- lost all thought, all reason, all control -- on MT. Why?

My guess is that it has happened before with women it was safe for him to assault -- other illegals. CR had become accustomed to attacking for whatever his trigger was -- and getting by with it. He was comfortable. Therefore, there was no tamping down the explosive as maybe he would have earlier . . . before he had gotten comfortable with exploding. I just think he’d gotten too “out-of-control” for this to be a first time.

You see, the person I know who "flies mad" only did it when it was "safe" with people he was "safe" with. He threatened to hit me once. I told him I wasn't afraid, but I would press charges to the full extent of the law. I would not put up with his behavior. . . Never threatened again. Guess he could have killed me . . . come to think of it.

So why did my threatening him make a difference but maybe caused CR to explode? I don't know. Each case/each person is different, of course Still, I wonder with CR -- he flew mad with MT, who definitely was not safe and his brain would have known that. She was not just a white girl, but an exemplary member of their small community. Well-known, popular. So why didn’t his brain protect him?

For some reason, on that day at that time, CR lost his temper and everything. Even worse -- Mollie lost her life. I’m trying to see how any good can come of this. What can we learn in order to avoid it in the future?

“What occurred is just so absolutely senseless,” @ MistyWaters. It was, and so painful because somehow we keep thinking there must be a way to prevent things like this from happening . . . how can we keep this from happening again?

“That describes a violent criminal with no conscience, IMO” katydid23. Maybe it does @katydid23, I don’t know.

CR's anger management abilities might not impress his roommates during his up coming and possibly short stay at the Graybar Hotel. In any case, he won't be walking out!

If CR was escalating and maybe committing SA in his own ethnic community, he might not have lasted too long. There are MSM reports of a couple of IM's cousin's male relatives walking CR out of a party to have a word with him about backing off when he got to grabby. If he was harming or bothering Latina girls in Brooklyn , a couple of Big Latino farm boys might have had a furather discussion with CR behind the barn. Same if he was getting too high profile with other women. No one wants LE coming around asking questions where you live, especially in today's charged environment. MT may have well looked like a safer target for his attention, than women in his own small immediate community.

 

[jillycat]

The pattern I think LE will find is a young man with very serious issues involving lack of ability to control anger that ignites into a dangerous blind rage. Unpredictable, what’s sometimes referred to as someone who is a loose cannon.

Multiple sharp force injuries inflicted, generally known as overkill.

Maybe. Or maybe this is just his first murder.

If he really had that much trouble controlling his anger and is easily ignited, this would have likely been noticed by now in other arenas of his life. I doubt that he could hold a job or avoid contact with LE if he lights up and melts down that fast. In fact, others who know him, including his employer, describe him as entirely predictable and even-tempered.

We really don't know what kind of encounter he had with Mollie, what she said or did, if anything, depending on what kind of opportunity she had or didn't have, or what he did to her and when. We only know he took 5 weeks to admit where she could be found after he stabbed her to death, and that was only because he was confronted and backed into a corner by police. That right there makes him a special kind of reprehensible in my book.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I saw the same thing. Very cold. No emotion. Not much in his eyes at all. I was surprised when some posters actually said he looked scared or " terrified" because the poor guy didn't understand what was going on!

He looked numb. There’s no way out for him, he knows it’s Game Over.

 

[kpm]

I saw the same thing. Very cold. No emotion. Not much in his eyes at all. I was surprised when some posters actually said he looked scared or " terrified" because the poor guy didn't understand what was going on!

Moo

He understood it!

 

[Ragnarok]

Yes, although we dont know if all these stories are true, I especially noticed the person who described him as not greeting him in the local custom and others describing his behavior as being "off. This, to me is one other thing to suggest a personality disorder. Alone it doesn't mean much, but put together with the lack of apparent guilt, remorse, doesn't seem to value human life, lying, deceitfulness, it sure sounds like it to me. Jmo

None of these women after these incidents thought to mention this behavior to LE when MT went missing?

 

[SteveP]

I don’t think anybody here is giving him the benefit of the doubt, and I for one certainly couldn’t care less about his feelings. Nobody doubts his guilt, nobody feels sorry for him.

That said, there’s no reason to twist his history before the murder into a narrative that says he must have been a creepy stalker monster all along and probably planned this for years. He doesn’t seem to be that way at all. He could be the guy that lives right down the street from you that smiles and waves when you run into him at the grocery store. And that should scare the hell out of you more than any monster you were hoping to find.

I agree with you on this. I respect differing opinions, but for those who think he had been scoping her out for days or weeks or longer, and knew all of her routes, so knew where to go to snatch her, I would ask this...if he had been following her and knew the route she was running, wouldn't it be far more sensible, and less risky, to hide the car and wait for her back at the house that he surely must have known she was staying at? Not to be graphically disgusting, but surely it would have been more comfortable to do whatever he desired with Mollie at the house, as opposed to the side of the road, the back seat of a car, or a cornfield. And if he had been stalking her, he probably would have known that she was alone. I have never seen any real evidence of anything he did that night being planned, and most certainly not planned well or in advance. I think he stumbled upon her, and yes, maybe he had seen her before and been fixated on her, and had thoughts of what he would love to do if the opportunity arose, but I still think he didn't know the opportunity would be there until it was. All JMO, MOO and IMO.