IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #42

[MsBetsy]

Here you go. Theres plenty psychological data on the net concerning this. I read a lot on psychology you might want to do the same. So, this isn't an "opinion"
Personality decided at birth, say scientists
Personality Begins Before Birth
When Does Your Child’s Personality Develop? Experts Weigh In
Personality Set for Life By 1st Grade, Study Suggests

The only problem with that study is it's published in the "Journal Brain Search Development" which I don't believe is a recognized journal. I don't even have the energy to explain all that's involved in psychological research and what is involved to determine whether or not results are significant, but basically comparative studies have to yield the same results over a long period of time in order to be significant. One cannot base a conclusion based on one study. For all we know there could have been 25 subjects participating in the study. In the realm of things, that is a so tiny it would be impossible to make a valid conclusion.

 

[Bravo]

May be that was his thing after work. Drive around. Stop at Casey's on occasion. Seems there wasn't much to do in that town. Perhaps not unusual to see him driving.

 

[otto]

I’m still on the fence about her time of death and if she was held for any period of time based on what LE has said.

Great info, I posted a few articles last night on the psychology of stabbing a victim, to paraphrase, basically most female stabbing victims are are stabbed during a SA.

I am wondering if that is what happened - that the stabbing is the thrill.

I've been all over the place regarding time of death so I returned to the warrant to see what police have said. There was an incident involving Mollie that started at 7:45PM at or near 1900 385 Ave. The incident ended at 8:28PM. On that basis, I'm going to assume for now that she was deceased at 8:28PM.

The timing of a 45 minute attack is completely aligned with statistics that show 69% of abduction / murder victims are deceased within one hour of abduction.

 

[MistyWaters]

If she died at the abduction site, and if he had no ill intentions in relation to her, wouldn't he have left her at the abduction site?

I’m not familiar with murder or the transport of bodies but I can think of ordinary events whereby people intentionally take deceptive actions to cover up things they’ve done in the hope nobody finds out.

The same question could be asked, why did he cover up her body with cornstalks?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

Good points, I know exactly what you mean. To my way of thinking, CR doesn’t know me and I don’t know him so it’s a waste of my emotional energy to invest to try to get too deep inside his head. Especially when it’d obviously involves negative energy. I save that for situations which I’m directly involved in but try to avoid as much as possible.

It’s somewhat ironic that people who view tragedies such as this in an objective manner face allegations of sympathy toward the perp. That’s totally untrue because sympathy is an example of an emotional reaction.

Very well-put. Thank you for that!

 

[Sillybilly]

Please leave the social media drama on the other sites where they are. Don't bring it to Websleuths.

Thanks.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes “before” meaning a day or more in the past, but what’s the source of “the day before” (July 17th)?

I'm not sure if there is a source for July 17, or that anyone knows where it came from. It was discussed MANY threads ago, and several people brought up the topic as a result of LE stating Rivera admitted that he " saw her jogging". But when is not what is so important, it's the idea that LE mentioned it at all, and led people to believe he had followed her before the attack.

 

[otto]

Here you go. Theres plenty psychological data on the net concerning this. I read a lot on psychology you might want to do the same. So, this isn't an "opinion"
Personality decided at birth, say scientists
Personality Begins Before Birth
When Does Your Child’s Personality Develop? Experts Weigh In
Personality Set for Life By 1st Grade, Study Suggests

There's the nature argument, and there's the nurture argument. There is no decision regarding whether nature or nurture is the dominant factor in forming personality. It's still a wide open debate.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I'm seeing some of our posts here being copied almost verbatim on another website. Sad they can't think for themselves.

Note that some members (not me) of this site might also be a member of other sites and copying/pasting their own posts seems reasonable. Of course, it is possible our posts are being lifted... which I perceive as complimentary but more notably, as plagiaristic.

 

[MassGuy]

I missed the discussion. We know he had seen her running previously, but we don't have a date except that it was during her time in Brooklyn between semesters. The limits the time frame to roughly 10 weeks maximum.

"Authorities said Bahena Rivera and Tibbetts have no known connection beyond that he allegedly told investigators that he had seen her running previously."

‘Something about him was off’: Other women say Mollie Tibbetts' suspected murderer messaged them repeatedly on social media over the years

We also have the abduction / murder though process as explained by an expert in the field. I don't think it's any sort of leap to question whether this was his first attempt to abduct Mollie, or whether this was the first time that he believed the risks were sufficiently eliminated to escape detection.

One point that is not in question is whether he felt that he had effectively managed the risks such that the probability of an arrest was so low that he had no reason to flee.

View attachment 145463

http://investigativepsych.com/Victim Target Networks Dr Godwin.pdf

I especially agree with your last point, that he believed he had gotten away with it. I think that if he followed the media coverage, which is likely, he felt confident that police were not close to linking him. These stories about Mollie possibly being held by an acquaintance, would have definitely aleviated his concerns.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

The fact that Rivera was victim blaming is not meant to imply that this is an excuse for killing someone. It was simply an observation made by several posters who noticed it. It is a very small part of the whole picture. True, some people may not care but for some reason it is being brought up over and over again in a debate over whether he was actually doing it or not. That's why it keeps coming up, and seems like a bigger deal than it has to be. I couldn't find original post so I am just adding it to the reply..... sorry, and of course mo

I know, I just find it to be one more example of Rivera being a cold blooded murderer.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

So he drove around the block multiple times in broad daylight in a town where people know him and will recognize his vehicle because that’s all part of his stealthy plan to snatch a girl out in the open? He must really suck at planning.

The only reason he was caught was because there was a camera that caught his car. His planning worked like a charm. He stalked her, took her, probably sa her, and then killed her. NOBODY SAW HIM. He would have gotten away if there had been no video.

 

[MyBelle]

I’m not familiar with murder or the transport of bodies but I can think of ordinary events whereby people intentionally take deceptive actions to cover up things they’ve done in the hope nobody finds out.

The same question could be asked, why did he cover up her body with cornstalks?

He didn't want drones finding her is the easiest explanation.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Yes “before” meaning a day or more in the past, but what’s the source of “the day before” (July 17th)?

I'm still waiting for a link saying he was stalking her the night before.

 

[MassGuy]

The only reason he was caught was because there was a camera that caught his car. His planning worked like a charm. He stalked her, took her, probably sa her, and then killed her. NOBODY SAW HIM. He would have gotten away if there had been no video.

I still think he was lucky more than anything. He took incredible risks, and somehow wasn’t spotted (even in that sleepy, rural town). You don’t have to be good to avoid detection.

 

[TL4S]

I’m not familiar with murder or the transport of bodies but I can think of ordinary events whereby people intentionally take deceptive actions to cover up things they’ve done in the hope nobody finds out.

The same question could be asked, why did he cover up her body with cornstalks?

Whether or not CR killed MT on 385th or the cornfield (or somewhere else entirely) is one of the questions I keep thinking and rethinking. Neither makes sense to me.

385th makes sense if it was a very quick rage killing, but so much blood in the trunk...

And the cornfield makes sense if he was a more seasoned killer (or rapist), what with him driving all that time, thinking about it. But why a cornfield?

A third location might work, but why move her afterwards?

I suppose it isn't impossible that she was killed somewhere else and left, only to be moved a couple days later, but that does not top my list of possibilities.

 

[otto]

So he drove around the block multiple times in broad daylight in a town where people know him and will recognize his vehicle because that’s all part of his stealthy plan to snatch a girl out in the open? He must really suck at planning.

No one saw the abduction, and no one recognized anyone driving around the block more than once. We don't know how many people who lived in Brooklyn knew the suspect, and we don't know how many people would recognize the vehicle and associate it with the illegal farm hand who lived SE of Brooklyn.

The suspect did snatch a young woman out in the open during daylight, and no one saw anything. No one knew when she was abducted, where she was abducted, how, or why. After a month, when police were actively looking for a vehicle, they got lucky.

If there is disagreement with the abduction/murder risk assessment flow chart, which part of it doesn't work in this instance?

see article:
http://investigativepsych.com/Victim Target Networks Dr Godwin.pdf

 

[kpm]

I am wondering if that is what happened - that the stabbing is the thrill.

I've been all over the place regarding time of death so I returned to the warrant to see what police have said. There was an incident involving Mollie that started at 7:45PM at or near 1900 385 Ave. The incident ended at 8:28PM. On that basis, I'm going to assume for now that she was deceased at 8:28PM.

The timing of a 45 minute attack is completely aligned with statistics that show 69% of abduction / murder victims are deceased within one hour of abduction.

Ya, I get what you’re saying, but he’s also somewhat of an anomaly

LE words keep ringing in my head, how did he escalate to abduction, kidnapping and homicide......

Is it safe to assume...

Abduction is the initial assault and putting her in the trunk

Kidnapping, where does that fit in and why did he use both words?


This is pertaining to kids but I think the explanations fit this scenario


Acquaintance Abductions
A lower percentage of abductions are "acquaintance" abductions. These abductions account for twenty-eight percent of all abductions, wherein the victim is only slightly acquainted with the perpetrator, but can still be considered familiar with the suspect from past history. This type of abduction has the highest percentage of being female or teenage victims, as well as the "highest percentage of injured victims." Most of these abductions are associated with other sexual and physical assaults, most often by juvenile perpetrators. This can be related to the fact that a majority of these abductions and assaults come as a result of relationship or dating issues.


Stranger Kidnappings
The third type of abduction, called "stranger kidnappings", makes up about a quarter of all abductions and kidnappings (roughly twenty-four percent). In this type of crime, the victim has no previous history with the perpetrator and has no knowledge of his existence or motive. When it comes to girl victims, these kinds of kidnappings are generally associated with sexual assaults.



Abduction vs. Kidnapping- Learn the Difference

 

[Bravo]

I still think he was lucky more than anything. He took incredible risks, and somehow wasn’t spotted (even in that sleepy, rural town). You don’t have to be good to avoid detection.

Agree. He got lucky. For lack of better words.

 

[TL4S]

I'm not sure if there is a source for July 17, or that anyone knows where it came from. It was discussed MANY threads ago, and several people brought up the topic as a result of LE stating Rivera admitted that he " saw her jogging". But when is not what is so important, it's the idea that LE mentioned it at all, and led people to believe he had followed her before the attack.

Some say every word CR has stated is a lie, so maybe this is one, too. Not MOO, just throwing it out there.