Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #44

[MsBetsy]

There have been contradictory reports about the girlfriend. Going from memory, people on the farm said that she moved out after the arrest, other reports say that they split a couple of years ago. Putting the two conflicting pieces of information together, perhaps they were officially split, but they still hooked-up.

That's what I'm thinking. Never a good idea. Very confusing for the child. To me it sounds like she did live there, at least on that property, and moved to her mom's as soon as Rivera was arrested. Makes sense and would have been a smart move. Which still leads me to wonder ... how could anyone not have noticed anything? Strange behavior, scratches, how he acted the night of the murder and the following day, anything. I wonder if someone did notice something and just isn't saying anything. Jmo

 

[otto]

Using the Fitbit for the 8:28 time would be too risky-the DA would be spending a lot of time addressing whether or not the Fitbit data could be admissible. Technology is too new to be such an important part. In the trial, if they needed it, sure. But not for this.

Fitbit data has been admitted in murder trial in the past. The data can be unreliable, but not in the sense that it does not transmit a heart rate signal. It does.

My guess is that the Fitbit transmitted information about general location, and heart beats per minutes. I think the two red dots on the right side of the police map are related to cell phone and Fitbit information, and that the 8:28 time is most likely related to heart beats per minute that went from very high and slowed to nothing.

I suspect that digital signature will be the star witness in this trial.

 

[kpm]

At common law, kidnapping consisted of the forcible abduction or stealing or carrying away of a person from one’s own country to another.

Kidnapping is the taking away of a person by force, threat, or deceit, with intent to cause him or her to be detained against his or her will.

Kidnapping may be done for ransom or for political or other purposes.

Abduction is the criminal taking away a person by persuasion, by fraud, or by open force or violence.

Although, abduction and kidnapping were considered separate and independent crimes, they are not always mutually exclusive.



Kidnapping v. Abduction – Kidnapping



Even the state laws do not differentiate between abduction and kidnapping. According to the law of New York, "A person is guilty of kidnapping in the first degree when he abducts another person and when:

(1) his intent is to compel a third person to pay ransom, or to engage in other particular conduct, or to refrain from engaging in particular conduct; or

(2) He restrains the person abducted for a period of more than 12 hours with intent to:

(3) Inflict physical injury upon him or violate or abuse him sexually; or ........



The Difference Between Kidnapping and Abduction in Legal Terms

 

[otto]

Regarding him blocking his memory when he gets upset. How would he know he does that unless someone has told him what he did when he was supposedly blocked I kind of relate this to be like the drunk spouse who is abusive but doesn't remember..until the person who was abused told them. I think he has been violent to others but conveniently blocked it out so he couldn't be held accountable

Perhaps this wasn't the first time that he found an earbud on his lap while parked in a secluded location. Perhaps this isn't the first time "earbud" means "victim in trunk".

 

[Confusion]

There is one thing that could have made MT different from the other girls he tried with. I don't think it was rejection that set him off since it sounds like he's been rejected by a lot of girls, but she may have been the first one to take him seriously enough to threaten him with police. Another possibility is that she didn't threaten him with the police, but with DJ and her brothers (or both them and LE). Perhaps some, or even all, of the rages he said he blocked out were rage about something being done to him rather than blocking out what he was doing to someone else. Even if that were the case, it wouldn't make him any less responsible for MT's death, but it might help explain how he accelerated so quickly; it would also mean that there was a very good chance that it would happen again, possibly many times. MOO

 

[kpm]

That's what I'm thinking. Never a good idea. Very confusing for the child. To me it sounds like she did live there, at least on that property, and moved to her mom's as soon as Rivera was arrested. Makes sense and would have been a smart move. Which still leads me to wonder ... how could anyone not have noticed anything? Strange behavior, scratches, how he acted the night of the murder and the following day, anything. I wonder if someone did notice something and just isn't saying anything. Jmo

I also dont think the coworkers had any reason to lie about her living there, IMO

 

[kpm]

Perhaps this wasn't the first time that he found an earbud on his lap while parked in a secluded location. Perhaps this isn't the first time "earbud" means "victim in trunk".

By JB/CR reasoning that ear buds=someone in trunk, you’re probably spot on

 

[kpm]

There is one thing that could have made MT different from the other girls he tried with. I don't think it was rejection that set him off since it sounds like he's been rejected by a lot of girls, but she may have been the first one to take him seriously enough to threaten him with police. Another possibility is that she didn't threaten him with the police, but with DJ and her brothers (or both them and LE). Perhaps some, or even all, of the rages he said he blocked out were rage about something being done to him rather than blocking out what he was doing to someone else. Even if that were the case, it wouldn't make him any less responsible for MT's death, but it might help explain how he accelerated so quickly; it would also mean that there was a very good chance that it would happen again, possibly many times. MOO

There was a story of him making moves on IM’s cousin at a party and a few relatives took him outside to set him straight.

 

[otto]

If the satisfaction in killing is that gratifying and a release to kill to stab to death, how could this be CR’s first time? “Who escalates to abduction, kidnapping and homicide that fast”. IMO Yes, this was too easy, really for CR because he has done it before. CR was well organized, he planned the event right down to the supposed “block out” phrase, he was efficient, deliberate, he had the body female in his visual control, his vantage point circulating the area, he closed in on her,
“ the suspect closer” 1900 block 385 th Ave. No time wasted,it was fast, he was not afraid. Killers evolve, they escalate, they get more proficient. 43 minutes, if this is from time of abduction to leaving her in cornfield. 67% killed in first hour? If I remember the serial killer stats chart provided by Otto I believe.
The question is will we ever know about the others? Will they link his DNA to other bodies found in Iowa? Or southwest? What about linking him based on his location or proximity to other missing person cases that may fit his TYPE. Checking out other cars he may have used or had access to while living with his Uncle and places he lived with others since his arrival to the US. What other state is his out of state ID from???

I think it's a long shot that he will be connected to other similar crimes. After 5 weeks, there may not be DNA on Mollie connecting her to Rivera. I'm skeptical that bodies that were left in the open for months have any DNA evidence.

I think Rivera does have a victim type, but now that he has a lawyer he will be a lot more careful regarding revealing information to police. Maybe previous vehicles can be traced and maybe a connection to other victims can be made that way.

I agree that this abduction/murder was very smooth, every detail sorted out including leaving the body in the open under corn leaves. He left nothing that could be traced to him. Some people have suggested that if this was planned, he would have used a shovel. Ted Bundy abducted and murdered many women. He didn't bury them. He left them in the open and he visited them after they were deceased and before they were found.

 

[MsBetsy]

I also dont think the coworkers had any reason to lie about her living there, IMO

Yes, that's the main reason why I think she did. They certainly would know, to me that's the best source.imo.

 

[otto]

Baffling. Maybe he truly had no idea what was about to go down. Or he truly said *uck it, whatever happens happens. I get caught, I get caught. I hate my life anyway. But someone'd have to be in heaps of misery to think that, heaps of evil to go through with the act he did. But you got me thinking. Maybe he was just that miserable and stupid. Miserable to kill her, stupid to circle the way he did, put the body where he did. It's like he thought he had some kind of superpower, an invisibility shield. I mean, what are we down to now? Three options?
1) didn't know it'd even go down
2) knew and didn't care if he got seen
3) knew or didn't know it'd go down, but in any event circled & got caught on tape
All we know is he sat on it for 5 weeks.

He didn't see the cameras, and if he did, he believed that they were pointed in the wrong direction and would at most capture a few details of his car. On that, he was correct.

 

[Jaclin]

On the topic of praying, something I wondered about....My question is not for the purpose of instigating a religious discussion. I’m only interested in information. Would a Priest “pray for the spirit of forgiveness” if the one who “did this” was non-Catholic?

My question pertains to this statement by Father Close:

“We need to pray for a spirit of forgiveness for the one who did this," the priest said. "Faith teaches us that Christ came to forgive us. We’re all in need of forgiveness. We’re all sinners. None of us are exempt."
Mollie Tibbetts vigil: 'We need to pray for a spirit of forgiveness,' pastor tells community

I could be wrong, but from what I know of the Catholic religion, it suggests to me CR was a baptized and practising Catholic. A very high percentage of Mexicans are Catholic, as high as 85%.

Because what I wonder, if CR began his obsession of stalking, targeting Mollie by sighting her at services or functions connected with that church? If so, that’s utterly horrible.

MOO I believe the "spirit of forgiveness" is to help the church people more than CR. It is not good to live in a state of resentment and anger. It can be very damaging. I remember one time being very angry at my ex-sister in law. I prayed and asked others to pray about it. Suddenly I let go of the anger, and it was as if a burden was released. I haven't forgotten, but it helped me to move on. So, yes. Also, in most Christian based religions we are taught to forgive, but I really think it's more for the victims benefit than the trespasser's. It's also easier said than done.
MOO I don't know if CR attended church or not, but if he did he was just going through the motions probably to be close to friends/family. You can't really call yourself a practicing anything if you aren't attempting to follow the tenets of your faith. Clearly CR was not.

 

[kpm]

I think it's a long shot that he will be connected to other similar crimes. After 5 weeks, there may not be DNA on Mollie connecting her to Rivera. I'm skeptical that bodies that were left in the open for months have any DNA evidence.

I think Rivera does have a victim type, but now that he has a lawyer he will be a lot more careful regarding revealing information to police. Maybe previous vehicles can be traced and maybe a connection to other victims can be made that way.

I agree that this abduction/murder was very smooth, every detail sorted out including leaving the body in the open under corn leaves. He left nothing that could be traced to him. Some people have suggested that if this was planned, he would have used a shovel. Ted Bundy abducted and murdered many women. He didn't bury them. He left them in the open and he visited them after they were deceased and before they were found.

JMO

I think his other crimes were against girls who wouldn’t report him, and we most likely won’t ever hear from them either.

 

[otto]

I’m not doubting there was an abduction

What about kidnapping?

I think a lawyer has to distinguish between the legal definitions of "abduction" and "kidnapping". Maybe abduction is defined as a kidnapping, may kidnapping is about children. I really don't know.

 

[otto]

That's what I'm thinking. Never a good idea. Very confusing for the child. To me it sounds like she did live there, at least on that property, and moved to her mom's as soon as Rivera was arrested. Makes sense and would have been a smart move. Which still leads me to wonder ... how could anyone not have noticed anything? Strange behavior, scratches, how he acted the night of the murder and the following day, anything. I wonder if someone did notice something and just isn't saying anything. Jmo

It sounds like a mixed up situation. There must have been some child visitation or shared custody arrangements. Maybe visitation included mom being on hand to help. I doubt that anyone else was at his home when he returned from murdering Mollie. He must have had blood on his clothing, and that should have raised serious questions. As it is, Rivera went under the radar until parts of his car were spotted on CCTV.

 

[kpm]

I think a lawyer has to distinguish between the legal definitions of "abduction" and "kidnapping". Maybe abduction is defined as a kidnapping, may kidnapping is about children. I really don't know.

From what I know of and what I posted abduction is used more with children and parents

I just find it very curious...

 

[otto]

At common law, kidnapping consisted of the forcible abduction or stealing or carrying away of a person from one’s own country to another.

Kidnapping is the taking away of a person by force, threat, or deceit, with intent to cause him or her to be detained against his or her will.

Kidnapping may be done for ransom or for political or other purposes.

Abduction is the criminal taking away a person by persuasion, by fraud, or by open force or violence.

Although, abduction and kidnapping were considered separate and independent crimes, they are not always mutually exclusive.

Kidnapping v. Abduction – Kidnapping

Even the state laws do not differentiate between abduction and kidnapping. According to the law of New York, "A person is guilty of kidnapping in the first degree when he abducts another person and when:

(1) his intent is to compel a third person to pay ransom, or to engage in other particular conduct, or to refrain from engaging in particular conduct; or

(2) He restrains the person abducted for a period of more than 12 hours with intent to:

(3) Inflict physical injury upon him or violate or abuse him sexually; or ........

The Difference Between Kidnapping and Abduction in Legal Terms

Thanks for finding that! Mollie was not kidnapped. She was abducted for the purpose of physical injury, but she was deceased in less than 12 hours.

 

[kpm]

It sounds like a mixed up situation. There must have been some child visitation or shared custody arrangements. Maybe visitation included mom being on hand to help. I doubt that anyone else was at his home when he returned from murdering Mollie. He must have had blood on his clothing, and that should have raised serious questions. As it is, Rivera went under the radar until parts of his car were spotted on CCTV.

Do you think he would have gone the court to hash child support and visitation in his position?

 

[MsBetsy]

There is one thing that could have made MT different from the other girls he tried with. I don't think it was rejection that set him off since it sounds like he's been rejected by a lot of girls, but she may have been the first one to take him seriously enough to threaten him with police. Another possibility is that she didn't threaten him with the police, but with DJ and her brothers (or both them and LE). Perhaps some, or even all, of the rages he said he blocked out were rage about something being done to him rather than blocking out what he was doing to someone else. Even if that were the case, it wouldn't make him any less responsible for MT's death, but it might help explain how he accelerated so quickly; it would also mean that there was a very good chance that it would happen again, possibly many times. MOO

I think rejection may have played a role. Just because he was used to it doesn't mean it didn't have an effect on him. Especially if it was a theme in his life carried over from childhood. Of course we don't have this information but we do know that he was repeatedly turned down by various women, and that the only serious relationship we know of ended as a result of her betraying him and likely angering and hurting him. If it was the first time he felt a deep connection and love for someone it may have had a big impact on him. Some describe him as quiet and others explosive. Maybe he kept everything inside, leading to the explosive anger. Of course that is not necessarily the reason he did what he did, but adds to the idea that he is an angry, possibly unstable person who is not capable of feeling guilt, shame, remorse, and imo has no respect for human life. How else can one carry on with life, lie and deceive people after murdering someone? Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

Do you think he would have gone the court to hash child support and visitation in his position?

No way. Jmo