Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #44

[MyBelle]

Some states do have laws against that. Some only punish the driver. Not sure about Iowa.

Iowa does have a statute and it also prohibits illegals from obtaining a driver's license.
https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/321.220.pdf

 

[MassGuy]

Iowa does have a statute and it also prohibits illegals from obtaining a driver's license.
https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/321.220.pdf

Just a “simple misdemeanor.”

 

[MsBetsy]

Exactly this. The family will not sue the farm. They don't want to make a political statement nor make money from the death of their daughter. These are good people that understand nothing is going to bring their daughter back and vengence is not in them.

As a side note... something tells me that this farm is going to be paying closer attention to the people they hire in the future. This situation has opened their eyes and the eyes within the community. They won't risk this happening again. I doubt their will be any "John Budd's" hired in the future.

I agree. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly think otherwise knowing this family. Somewhere it was mentioned that because of the earnings Mollie may have contributed to her family, they might be able to be compensated or something of that nature, but I honestly don't think that would even enter their minds. I certainly wouldn't have thought of it. There is no compensation for the loss of a child.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Exactly this. The family will not sue the farm. They don't want to make a political statement nor make money from the death of their daughter. These are good people that understand nothing is going to bring their daughter back and vengence is not in them.

As a side note... something tells me that this farm is going to be paying closer attention to the people they hire in the future. This situation has opened their eyes and the eyes within the community. They won't risk this happening again. I doubt their will be any "John Budd's" hired in the future.

Thanks Raven , that's how I remember folks in Iowa when I lived there for 4 years, 30 years ago, and I only lived in Davenport, on the coast, not the interior. But I drank with a lot of Iowa and other mid-west farm boys at the Student Union. Good, upstanding, level headed folks. And these were the young guys who partied. The sober older adults are apparently even more remarkable. God bless them all, MT's family, and MT herself.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes unlimited scenarios are possible given no more official information has been released whatsoever.

I have another. How about if, as his first attourney stated, CR was working legally in the US. The John Budd thing came from anonymous sources, not always accurate information. Or the source knew a John Budd did work there but it was another person.


“Despite what federal officials have stated about Rivera's status in the U.S., his lawyer said the suspect worked legally in the country.

Attorney Allan Richards alleged that the government was saying falsely that Rivera was not in Iowa legally, in a court document through which he asked for a gag order....”
Mollie Tibbetts investigation: Chevy Malibu seen in surveillance video not registered to suspect Rivera, source says

Richards only relied on what AF initially said. He also is no longer the attorney on the case. LE has said CR was here illegally and ICE has a hold on him. The owner of AF has said CR used fraudulent documents. All together that is sufficient to convince me CR is an illegal alien. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Just a “simple misdemeanor.”

It's still a crime and prosecutors can get creative.

 

[kpm]

I had my car stolen too, watched it right out my window in a major city, called 911 and their reply was “do you know it’s a federal offense to call 911 for a non felony offense?”
Hours later a cop showed up and said “this happens all the time, we don’t have the resources to pursue this, you should drive around the neighborhood and look for it yourself”.
Days later I found it along with drugs (not mine) in it and a document from a probation officer to a person that had presumably been in the car, and when I called the probation officer they blew me off.
Somewhat off topic to Mollie’s case here except the take home point for me that LEOs do not always have the resources or have bigger fish to fry than following up in hot pursuit of a stolen or illegally operated vehicle.
The vehicle CR drove the evening that he used it to accost Mollie, etc. IMO would not have been on anyone’s radar, regardless of his or other users or their licensing status or permission to use it from their employer. Just MOO of course

Now imagine this scenario, set aside Mollie’s death from this equation........

CR uses a company car without a valid DL

CR is in an accident in the company car and kills the other person

Who’s going to be paying big time for allowing an illegal immigrate to illegally drive a company car?

Even if he got a speeding ticket, the company would be hit big time allowing this guy to use its vehicle

If the company is going to supply a car for workers to use it is their responsibility and due diligence to make sure everyone driving has a valid DL.

My insurance evens asks who else will be driving my car

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm baffled. How is a wrongful death lawsuit tied to making a political statement? Wrongful death lawsuits are a way to receive compensation for out-of-pocket costs and for pain and suffering. Everyone knows a lawsuit won't 'bring back' a loved one. There is a two-year window to file.

Make a political statement NOR make money off their daughters death. Meaning they would not use the death of their daughter for the benefit of something else. That's how I interpreted it. Jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

I'll give it another shot. This one will probably sound like a plot directly out of a bad B level movie, but I'm running out of steam. Partially because there's not much to actually sleuth with the little we've been given, but more to get back to the tragedy that happened to MT instead of focusing on who may or may not lose money because of her death.

So, I'm going to start with CR and one of his 2 friends he was seen with a lot were in town and happened to pass MT along the way. CR made a comment about how he'd like to get to know her better, and his friend tells him to just go talk to her. They drive past her several (a few?, I don't remember what was said) times while he tries to decide if he should. This goes on for several minutes before she turns onto 385th Avenue and started heading to a more isolated area.

He finally decides to go for it, and the friend pulls over to let him out. He runs up behind MT until he catches up, and then he runs next to her and tries to talk to her. She gets freaked out for obvious reasons and threatens to call the police if he doesn't go away. He's mad and embarrassed since his friend witnessed him getting shot down, and he knocks her to the ground, hitting her head on the pavement. His friend pulls up and they throw her into the car. I'd prefer not to go into what I think they may have done to her, but eventually she ends up in the trunk. This is the only thing I could come up with that would make sense of the other car being involved... They realized they had screwed up and couldn't really go anywhere to get cleaned up because they'd be in trouble as soon as anyone saw their bloody clothes, etc., so one of them calls the other friend to bring them some clean clothes and maybe some wet rags and towels to get cleaned up with. They took her into the cornfield and waited there for the other friend to show up.

At some point, they cleaned the car and burned the clothes, towels, etc. and thought they were safe. When LE showed up at the farm and asked about the car, one of the "friends" could be who told them it was one that CR used. Once they arrested him, the other two took off, and CR confessed to doing it alone either out of loyalty (unlikely) or out of fear of retaliation if he implicated anyone else. Whether he actually did the stabbing or not, legally he would still be just as guilty as anyone else, so it wouldn't really benefit him much to say anything anyway, but maybe he just couldn't bring himself to say that he was the one who had actually assaulted and murdered her.

Turn in next week for another episode of "As the Stomach Turns". MOO

Could be possible. What we don’t know is the existence or extent of a code of honour amongst the group who lived and worked together. Within some circles if one person gets caught they’d take the full responsibility and never implicate others who were involved. (The opposite of blame but I don’t remember if there’s another name for it.)

 

[MistyWaters]

The attorney stated he had proof CR had legal status but what he was relying on was that the owner of the farm released a statement claiming that CR had provided legal documents which allowed him to work there. The farmer then renegged on that statement when he found out CR was hired using false ID. So what the attorney stated was no longer valid.

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[kpm]

Yes unlimited scenarios are possible given no more official information has been released whatsoever.

I have another. How about if, as his first attourney stated, CR was working legally in the US. The John Budd thing came from anonymous sources, not always accurate information. Or the source knew a John Budd did work there but it was another person.


“Despite what federal officials have stated about Rivera's status in the U.S., his lawyer said the suspect worked legally in the country.

Attorney Allan Richards alleged that the government was saying falsely that Rivera was not in Iowa legally, in a court document through which he asked for a gag order....”
Mollie Tibbetts investigation: Chevy Malibu seen in surveillance video not registered to suspect Rivera, source says

The farm admitted he used fake documents, it doesn’t matter what his fake name was, call him whatever you want to call him, the facts are the farm admitted he scammed them.

Who cares if he’s John Budd or Joe Schmoo or Bozo The Clown, it was a fake name

 

[Confusion]

Could be possible. What we don’t know is the possible existence or extent of a code of honour amongst the group who lived and worked together. Within some circles if one person gets caught they’d take the full responsibility and never implicate others who were involved. (The opposite of blame but I don’t remember if there’s another name for it.)

I don't know if I really believe it, but something about the way he seems to have worded his confession just doesn't sit right with me. It also doesn't sound a lot like the description other people have given of him. I know people can have a very dark side they keep hidden from most of the world, but unless and until he's convicted, I'll keep an open mind (to some extent, I do believe he will be convicted) MOO

 

[MyBelle]

I agree. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly think otherwise knowing this family. Somewhere it was mentioned that because of the earnings Mollie may have contributed to her family, they might be able to be compensated or something of that nature, but I honestly don't think that would even enter their minds. I certainly wouldn't have thought of it. There is no compensation for the loss of a child.

There are compensatory and punitive damages, loss of consortium damages. A wrongful death lawsuit is also about what Mollie lost and there is no question she had a close, loving relationship with her parents and family.
https://www.bpglegal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/44/2017/01/Brady_Preston_Brown-Wrongful_Death.pdf

 

[Jerrod]

If CR had deep pockets, I believe a wrongful death lawsuit would be a certainty.

 

[RavenCC2020]

So just thinking about the possibility of a civil wrongful death suit against the farm....I strongly feel the Tibbet family will not pursue it. I would bet money they will not. RT stated in the eulogy that MT was not a victim. That in and of itself is a powerful statement as to his beliefs and more then likely his MT's mother and possibly his interpretation of what MT would want. I can understand that totally. I would never want my child's death to be the poster child for victimhood period. The huge immigration debate just makes it more infamous. It would take away who she was as a person and that is exactly what RT wants to prevent.

I have to say if it were me I probably would do the same but there is also a side of me that just might go there. Even if money were off the table totally just my attempt to right the system to make sure it didn't happen to someone else. Not saying if all his employees are of Mexican or South American heritage they must be illegal and murderers but knowing that it WAS possible for someone escaping a criminal past can be an illegal and in need of work, securing illegal documents and perhaps committing a crime in the future, holding the farm responsible WOULD be a deterrent against that happening again. Cleaning the hiring process up would be a good thing. Not sure if I lost my child though that would be foremost on my mind even with a 2 year filing deadline.

But some parents do take up that fight and I admire them for it as well. They see it differently and do not wish for their child to have died in vain. Just two opposing philosophies and I can understand people who choose to handle it both ways.

 

[MyBelle]

Now imagine this scenario, set aside Mollie’s death from this equation........

CR uses a company car without a valid DL

CR is in an accident in the company car and kills the other person

Who’s going to be paying big time for allowing an illegal immigrate to illegally drive a company car?

Even if he got a speeding ticket, the company would be hit big time allowing this guy to use its vehicle

If the company is going to supply a car for workers to use it is their responsibility and due diligence to make sure everyone driving has a valid DL.

My insurance evens asks who else will be driving my car

JMO

I agree. Whomever owns the vehicle was very reckless in allowing an unlicensed driver behind the wheel. JMO

 

[kpm]

There are compensatory and punitive damages, loss of consortium damages. A wrongful death lawsuit is also about what Mollie lost and there is no question she had a close, loving relationship with her parents and family.
https://www.bpglegal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/44/2017/01/Brady_Preston_Brown-Wrongful_Death.pdf

This case is a catch-22

You have an illegal who illegally drove a vehicle to go murder and possibly SA MT, he will pay for his crime, hopefully for life!

Then you have a company that hired, housed and possible supplied a vehicle to CR

A company that has turned a blind eye to who it hires, and one of their hires brutally murdered a person

 

[MistyWaters]

Although CR was hired by Yarrabee Farm 4 years ago, he apparently came to the US when he was 16, in about 2011.

I’m really curious, for whom and where he worked and lived during those first three years. Not because it directly relates to his crime but it might. The odds are much greater he became acquainted with Mollie somehow over a period of 7 years, as opposed to 4 years.

 

[kpm]

So just thinking about the possibility of a civil wrongful death suit against the farm....I strongly feel the Tibbet family will not pursue it. I would bet money they will not. RT stated in the eulogy that MT was not a victim. That in and of itself is a powerful statement as to his beliefs and more then likely his MT's mother and possibly his interpretation of what MT would want. I can understand that totally. I would never want my child's death to be the poster child for victimhood period. The huge immigration debate just makes it more infamous. It would take away who she was as a person and that is exactly what RT wants to prevent.

I have to say if it were me I probably would do the same but there is also a side of me that just might go there. Even if money were off the table totally just my attempt to right the system to make sure it didn't happen to someone else. Not saying if all his employees are of Mexican or South American heritage they must be illegal and murderers but knowing that it WAS possible for someone escaping a criminal past can be an illegal and in need of work, securing illegal documents and perhaps committing a crime in the future, holding the farm responsible WOULD be a deterrent against that happening again. Cleaning the hiring process up would be a good thing. Not sure if I lost my child though that would be foremost on my mind even with a 2 year filing deadline.

I haven’t heard if her mother has said anything yet

We’ve heard from her dad and some other relatives

 

[MistyWaters]

This case is a catch-22

You have an illegal who illegally drove a vehicle to go murder and possibly SA MT, he will pay for his crime, hopefully for life!

Then you have a company that hired, housed and possible supplied a vehicle to CR

A company that has turned a blind eye to who it hires, and one of their hires brutally murdered a person

According to this quote by a retired federal prosecutor, it’s not certain it’d be correct to say the company turned a blind eye. It appears there are flaws in the system.

“Employers typically do not face legal consequences for hiring a worker under false documents as long as they were not involved in obtaining them and had no other obvious reason to suspect they are fraudulent, said Bob Teig, a retired federal prosecutor in Iowa.

“Absent unusual circumstances, it would be difficult to show they knew any more than what they were told,” Teig said, adding that it would be “pretty racist” to assume a John Budd could not be Hispanic.“
Immigrant charged in Tibbetts' death used 'John Budd' alias to secure job at Yarrabee Farms