Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #45

[MistyWaters]

The only part of his admissions I believe is he identified the clothes she was wearing and he knew where she was left and covered up, those are the only truths,IMO

But, LE and his attorneys have to work with the “story/lie” he concocted, unless he comes clean, which is highly unlikely now that he was hired attorneys.

They will use the poor immigrant card at trial, his first attorney already started the narrative, “all American hard working BOY”

He is not a boy he’s a grown man with a child.

And so what if his education level is 7-8th grade, which is also in doubt since we sleuthed his school out and it appears he attend what we consider high school, a 7-8th grader knows right from wrong especially when it comes to killing someone!

This rant is not directed to you in any way, I’m sick of criminals taking advantage of our system with minutia that the courts let fly to confuse juries.

Right now there’s a lot of focus on CR but if this goes to trial I’m certain the State will place very heavy emphasis on Mollie who was the victim - an innocent, intelligent, aspiring young woman just out for an evening run, out from nowhere suddenly stalked by a lunatic who took her life. I can’t see a jury falling for a sympathy card regarding CRs rough life let alone his low grade level. That is not an excuse to murder an innocent person.

 

[MsBetsy]

The only part of his admissions I believe is he identified the clothes she was wearing and he knew where she was left and covered up, those are the only truths,IMO

But, LE and his attorneys have to work with the “story/lie” he concocted, unless he comes clean, which is highly unlikely now that he was hired attorneys.

They will use the poor immigrant card at trial, his first attorney already started the narrative, “all American hard working BOY”

He is not a boy he’s a grown man with a child.

And so what if his education level is 7-8th grade, which is also in doubt since we sleuthed his school out and it appears he attend what we consider high school, a 7-8th grader knows right from wrong especially when it comes to killing someone!

This rant is not directed to you in any way, I’m sick of criminals taking advantage of our system with minutia that the courts let fly to confuse juries.

Yes, it's really a shame if he is veering in the direction of using his "history of memory blocks," or whatever they are planning on calling it, to drag out the whole process and force family and friends to endure a long trial. Imo... To me it just demonstrates what kind of character he really is.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Aliens is a bit far fetched, lol

I think they may try to lessen the charge by adding minutia to befuddle the jury

But let’s say CR claims this now that he has a team of attorneys

He was just driving around lost, not stalking her at all

He stopped to ask her for directions and she took it the wrong way and threatened to call LE

CR panics and tries to stop her when a struggle ensues and he accidentally knocked her out on the head.

Now he’s blocking his memory so there is a ton of reasonable doubt they can add, did he get help from a the friends that fled the farm, was he out of control, etc.

What seems reasonable to one person may not to the next, look at all the speculation here

All it takes is to get a few of them doubting

All that works unless too there was a sexual assault.

Then he’s right back to life in prison.

 

[MsBetsy]

Killers like this typically have some sort of history. It's not common to go from being "normal" one day to, "Gee, think I'll track down someone and murder them today", just out of the blue, unless there's a psychological snap. Do I believe them? Yes, and you better believe the jury will too.

Yeah, like a history of ASPD. In my opinion.

 

[MsBetsy]

I haven't found that specifically said, either. I saw it very early on, so maybe it was misquoted and corrected?

I'm not sure. I have never seen anything like that stated, and we had a long discussion about how the family would have seen something like that in the past. At least an incident of memory blocking in the past, if it's true that it occurs when he gets upset. Imo

 

[Mauig’ma]

My guess is that he targeted Mollie because she was his type. Mollie's features are similar to his girlfriend, and perhaps his girlfriend's features are similar to his mother's features.

It's possible that Mollie represented all that is completely out of his reach. It's the question of whether he killed her to cover his tracks, or whether it was always the plan.

It would be very interesting to learn that he has done this before, but it happened in the illegal immigrant community. This is a thought, not a fact. A question. If he has previous victims, were they from an invisible community?

I have a feeling we may never know

 

[Al Hoffman]

Good morning all. Here are my questions for the day:

• Didn't CR's father say in his interview that he didn't know of any "blocked memory" issues in CR's past?

• Wouldn't the '"blocked memory" diminished capacity' argument be basically worthless as a defense for murder if the murder had taken place after he had already "come to"? As in it happening in the cornfield versus 385th or somewhere along the way.

• Since we know CR used his phone to determine the route he'd taken on the night in question, couldn't LE have therefore used his phone's locator system as a basis for their 7:45 - 8:28pm incident time limits?

• Why didn't CR delete his phone's locator history during his 5 weeks undetected?

1) I don't recall any such MSM interview with the father that said anything about "blocking out" (and I have read ALL of the 45 threads to date, and followed MSM).

2) A Dimished Capacity defence only has to place enough doubt in the Jury's mind about intent to kill, so that conviction is for Murder Two, and max sentence goes from life w/o parole to 50 years. Prosecution counter is to show intent to Kidnap BEFORE reported "block out", because CR turned and followed her. Felony murder rule allows for Murder One conviction for death that results from kidnapping, even if victim accidentally dies from CO poisoning in trunk of car.

3) Sure, it could be based on a combo of phone and other data, but LE only had CR and his phone in custody for 24 hours before the warrant was filled and CR arrested. Per LE on MSM we know that LE had MT's FitBit data and were confident of her final time line long before CR came onto LE's radar. Precise nature of upper time range of Homocide event of 20:28 makes me think that this is based on FitBit Cloud data.

4) Who says that he did not? Google tracking apps that can't be turned off, phone log cell phone data from his service provider and On Star tracking data, with or w/o service are plenty enough to show his whereabouts on the night of the murder. Also, overlapping cell phone tracking data and On Star tracking data would tend to show that CR was in car that followed MT.

 

[kpm]

All that works unless too there was a sexual assault.

Then he’s right back to life in prison.

Right,

We just don’t know yet if there was but the probability is high coupled with what the warrant said about her clothes being found at the scene the body was located.

IMO, I hope he rots in prison and the jury will see through the minutia that will be flung there way!

 

[MistyWaters]

It's my understanding, concerning premeditation, that it doesn't just cover the initial act but his actions on the whole. Did he, at any point, have the opportunity to change his course, by rendering aid, etc.? If so, and he did not, in most states it's considered premeditated. Can an Iowan attorney speak to the state's definition of premeditation? TIA

I think you are correct. I’m not an attorney but it seems logical to me that memory follows an event and is the exact opposite of premeditation and intent to commit murder. Even if a defendant claims to not remember, other actions prove intent. In this case those actions include stalking her, chasing her as opposed to walking away, placing her body in the trunk and not seeking medical intervention, inflicting multiple sharp force injuries and not just one, all that shows intent to deliberately cause death imo.

“Deliberation and premeditation mean that the prosecutor must show that the defendant developed the conscious intent to kill before committing the murder. This is a low threshold and does not require showing that the defendant created an extensive plan before he committed the act (although that might sometimes be the case). Rather, deliberation and premeditation require only that the defendant paused, for at least a few moments, to consider his actions, during which time a reasonable person would have had time to second guess such actions.”
First-Degree Murder Overview :: Justia

 

[A-MG]

Yeah, like a history of ASPD. In my opinion.

That would work, and that's probably why the P.I. was brought in.

 

[kpm]

Yes, it's really a shame if he is veering in the direction of using his "history of memory blocks," or whatever they are planning on calling it, to drag out the whole process and force family and friends to endure a long trial. Imo... To me it just demonstrates what kind of character he really is.

I agree!

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Didn't his father quote an age in the interview he gave?

He very well could have entered with an entire group of people coming to the states.
I didn’t realize the scope of the problem until I moved to Las Vegas. I drive water and food down to the homeless who believe it or not live under I 15 and the casinos in water drains. There is an entire community set up under Las Vegas that visitors know nothing about. And have pretty nice set ups down there. Until it rains.

Most are illegals, a good share criminals, the kids are cared for, and oddly people live as contently as possible. We accept their mail and some of us offer to contact family who might be worried about not knowing where or how they might be. Babies, teens and seniors make their home under Las Vegas. They’ve been there more than a generation.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

The reason I asked is that I found out yesterday who it was and why they were driving around - it wasn’t exactly LE, but I get the impression they were on the phone with LE at the time and they all knew what was going on. I just felt like I was really in the dark because I was under the impression that a Black SUV driving around Brooklyn that night was just a rumor. I guess it really did happen, but had no connection to the MT case at all.

Downstairs.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, it's really a shame if he is veering in the direction of using his "history of memory blocks," or whatever they are planning on calling it, to drag out the whole process and force family and friends to endure a long trial. Imo... To me it just demonstrates what kind of character he really is.

Yes and for now we don’t know CR is even planning that. The Des Moines Register article that mentioned the possibility by defence attorneys unconnected to the case didn’t seem overly optimistic of the success of that approach either.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Well we do not know if it is his family paying or an Hispanic group. Remember far back in the thread someone posted groups that help them?

Yeah, I haven't seen anything about who is paying the new attorneys.

 

[TL4S]

1) I don't recall any such MSM interview with the father that said anything about "blocking out" (and I have read ALL of the 45 threads to date, and followed MSM).

2) A Dimished Capacity defence only has to place enough doubt in the Jury's mind about intent to kill, so that conviction is for Murder Two, and max sentence goes from life w/o parole to 50 years. Prosecution counter is to show intent to Kidnap BEFORE reported "block out", because CR turned and followed her. Felony murder rule allows for Murder One conviction for death that results from kidnapping, even if victim accidentally dies from CO poisoning in trunk of car.

3) Sure, it could be based on a combo of phone and other data, but LE only had CR and his phone in custody for 24 hours before the warrant was filled and CR arrested. Per LE on MSM we know that LE had MT's FitBit data and were confident of her final time line long before CR came onto LE's radar. Precise nature of upper time range of Homocide event of 20:28 makes me think that this is based on FitBit Cloud data.

4) Who says that he did not? Google tracking apps that can't be turned off, phone log cell phone data from his service provider and On Star tracking data, with or w/o service are plenty enough to show his whereabouts on the night of the murder. Also, overlapping cell phone tracking data and On Star tracking data would tend to show that CR was in car that followed MT.

Thank you for always responding in a respectful and informative manner, Al. I truly appreciate your input!

1) Yes, I must have that wrong about the "blocked memory" comment because I can't find it, either.

2) For those who believe he killed her at the cornfield, my question is if he "came to" on the road before the cornfield and she was alive in his trunk, then the diminished capacity would only apply to the kidnapping part, wouldn't it? I only say this because I think it all indicates he inflicted those wounds before he "came to," thus not at the cornfield.

3) I do agree about the possible use of FitBit, as well. But his phone might have shown he parked his car on 385th at 7:45 and left the cornfield at 8:28pm, so they went with that. IDK Just a thought.

4) Yes, I have strongly considered OnStar as a source since gliving first brought it up!!

 

[kpm]

Yeah, I haven't seen anything about who is paying the new attorneys.

When the two new attorneys took over they said they were privately hired by the family, the same was then said about the first attorney, but we don’t know if they are getting “help” to afford it, which I think they are.

 

[Deleted member 718]

2) For those who believe he killed her at the cornfield, my question is if he "came to" on the road before the cornfield and she was alive in his trunk, then the diminished capacity would only apply to the kidnapping part, wouldn't it? I only say this because I think it all indicates he inflicted those wounds before he "came to," thus not at the cornfield.

It doesn't say it in the affidavit, but most msm news articles refer to her body in the trunk, which can be taken that she's already deceased.

"approaching her, and then blacking out and later discovering her body in the trunk of his car."

"He said he came to, realized that he had killed her and put her body in the trunk of his car"

"Rivera told police that when he “came to,” he was in his car and Tibbetts’s body was in his trunk, adding that the side of her head was bloody."

"Rivera described seeing Tibbetts’s body in the trunk of his car, with blood on the side of her head."

All theses are from MSM articles found by searching - Mollie Tibbetts + trunk. Further searching describes how he got "her body" out of the trunk and dragged "her body" first by her feet and then over his shoulder.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Has it ever been verified that MT threatened to call the police? From what I've gathered, the only person claiming this is Mollie's alleged killer. It's a little convenient, don't ya think? Consider how much time he had to come up with a narrative. In a slight-of-hand type way, he's blaming the victim...The victim threatens to call the police, which would out the hard-working illegal alien. So he snaps, but has amnesia concerning the events that come after that. To me, that portion of the narrative is too convenient, may never have happened, cannot be verified, and is meant to garner some measure of sympathy for the alleged killer.

Event related amnesia is a medically rare but documented event. It can be brought on by a severe traumatic event, such as commiting a murder (though even experts agree that this could be abused as a subterfuge to avoid confessing to a crime). Pre-existing conditions, such as PTSD, can predispose one to such waking fugue states (my old school terminology, not current DSM 5 gospel).

Is there any wonder why their might be a PI going down to Mexico to document any violent events in CR's youth and adolescence. Events he either witnessed, was effected by, or participated in, involving Gang, or Narco terrorist or Policia violence?

Traumatic event triggered PTSD related fugue states and a condtion of disreality, could make for the basis of a great Diminished Capacity defence, especially if a history of violence in CR's past can be documented in his very troubled home country. There are 1000's of referees from South of the border currently seeking refuge in this country, fleeing death and violence in their own now 3rd world countries. There was a reason that CR left Mexico as a teen; could it have been because his life was threatened, perhaps because of something he saw or was made to participate in?

Now, before y'all tar and feather me, please realize that it is just this kind of narrative that would be at the heart of a Diminished Capacity defence to cause reasonable doubt in a sympathetic juror's mind.

"Dissociative Type of PTSD - PTSD: National Center for PTSD" (US Department of Veterans Affairs)

JIMHO

 

[Deleted member 718]

When the two new attorneys took over they said they were privately hired by the family, the same was then said about the first attorney, but we don’t know if they are getting “help” to afford it, which I think they are.

Thanks kpm. I've been trying to find the msm link. Are you able to backtrack and link it? I think it was said they'd worked with other family members, but not how/who was paying.