Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #46

[MistyWaters]

Perhaps I misunderstand. The jury has the final say as to the decision. If they don't agree to murder one, but agree on manslaughter.

I think we’d be unduly pessimistic to even consider 12 people sitting on a jury would all agree to a verdict of manslaughter. Mollie was unarmed. After she was stalked and approached, her only option to defend herself was asking the defendant to leave her alone or she’d call police, then she kept running. Her actions posed no physical harm to CR whatsoever.

Allegedly CR was in the US illegally and if that’s used to justify provocation, committing one crime isn’t a lawful reason to commit another including murder of an innocent person, any more than a murdering fugitive would be looked upon favourably. JMO

 

[Al Hoffman]

Perhaps I misunderstand. The jury has the final say as to the decision. If they don't agree to murder one, but agree on manslaughter.

I believe that the Jury has to select from the Bill of Charges presented to them. If they only have Murder One, then it is a straight up, thumb up or down, guilty not guilty deal.

Depending on the Judge's instruction, if presented with a list of lesser charges in a Criminal case, the Jury can vote not guilty on the more serious charges, but guilty of less serious charges. Kind of like picking from a Menu.

This is the risk of lesser included charges being presented to a Jury. I believe that the Murder Statute, as written in Iowa, does not require that the lesser included charge, for inclusion under the Felony Murder rule, be presented to the Jury. Only that it be presented and substantiated in open Court, to the Jury, as supporting, confirming evidence of the Murder One charge.

I am not an Attorney, but I have drank and worked with many, and we all made a lot of money!

JIMHOO

 

[TL4S]

I believe that the Jury has to select from the Bill of Charges presented to them. If they only have Murder One, then it is a straight up, thumb up or down, guilty not guilty deal.

Depending on the Judge's instruction, if presented with a list of lesser charges in a Criminal case, the Jury can vote not guilty on the more serious charges, but guilty of less serious charges. Kind of like picking from a Menu.

This is the risk of lesser included charges being presented to a Jury. I believe that the Murder Statute, as written in Iowa, does not require that the lesser included charge, for inclusion under the Felony Murder rule, be presented to the Jury. Only that it be presented and substantiated in open Court, to the Jury, as supporting, confirming evidence of the Murder One charge.

I am not an Attorney, but I have drank and worked with many, and we all made a lot of money!

JIMHOO

I am not familiar with legal proceedings, so bear with me. I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Basically, if they don't add any charges and CR is tried only for Murder One, then the prosecution must feel at least one of the below:

• They have a strong enough case for Murder One that they don't need to add lesser charges?
• That there are no lesser charges to be had (she died right where he approached her)?
• If he did kidnapped her, they can substantiate that in court only as part of the events leading to her death?

Is any of this supporting the idea that a sexual assault hasn't been proven?

 

[MistyWaters]

I am not familiar with legal proceedings, so bear with me. I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Basically, if they don't add any charges and CR is tried only for Murder One, then the prosecution must feel at least one of the below:

• They have a strong enough case for Murder One that they don't need to add lesser charges?
• That there are no lesser charges to be had (she died right where he approached her)?
• If he did kidnapped her, they can substantiate that in court only as part of the events leading to her death?

Is any of this supporting the idea that a sexual assault hasn't been proven?

I think it would be most important for the State to prove sexual assault if the cause of death was caused to a victim, for example by a blow to the head. The defendant then would be charged with felony murder if the rape could be proven. But it could also be argued the perp committed rape but the victim died many hours later by accidentally falling and the perp did nothing to cause that death. So the defendant might get off only on a conviction of sexual assault.

But in this case, as the autopsy revealed death was caused by multiple sharp force injuries and CR admitted to stalking, chasing, anger and transport of the body, the circumstances appear to warrant a direct line to the big hit of the highest homicide charge, intentional and premeditated, as it’s easiest to prove.

JMO

 

[geevee]

I’m thinking we won’t see those types of lower class charges because the victim didn’t walk away, she was murdered. Typically how it goes is the Judge gives the Jury various options beginning with the highest murder charge. Then based on the evidence, it’s up to the jury to decide if the defendant is guilty or not guilty of 1st degree premeditated murder or lesser murder charges after consideration of the evidence they’ve heard.

1st degree murder - premeditated intent to murder (admitting to stalking, then chasing, multiple sharp force injuries inflicted are obvious elements)
1st degree murder - felony (death occurred as a result of a committing a felony such as kidnaping or sexual assault, murder not necessarily intentional).
2nd degree murder - no preplanning or premeditation (often a case of crime of passion)
Manslaughter - accidental (but it’d be difficult for a jury to assume multiple sharp force injuries were inflicted accidentally)

In Iowa, the sentence for first degree murder is an automatic full life without any parole. So upon conviction, no additional charges are required to increase full life in prison beyond the felon’s eventual death.

Therefore even if kidnaping or sexually assaulting an alive person is proven by trial evidence, violently murdering that victim after those acts serves to further prove deliberate and premeditated 1st degree murder. Because it can be reasoned the perp intentionally committed murder to prevent the victim from escaping and informing police of the crime that occurred.

JMO

I would think they may want to add kidnapping and any sexual assault charge they have evidence to prove on the chance that if lesser includeds are to be considered by the jury, and if they would happen to convict on 2nd degree, the added charges would increase his sentence (if he is also convicted of those, of course).

 

[Al Hoffman]

I am not familiar with legal proceedings, so bear with me. I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Basically, if they don't add any charges and CR is tried only for Murder One, then the prosecution must feel at least one of the below:

• They have a strong enough case for Murder One that they don't need to add lesser charges?
• That there are no lesser charges to be had (she died right where he approached her)?
• If he did kidnapped her, they can substantiate that in court only as part of the events leading to her death?

Is any of this supporting the idea that a sexual assault hasn't been proven?

Reading the Iowa Murder Statute, posted verbatim up thread, I don't think that the Jury has to actually vote guilty for a crime that lead up to, or contributed to, or set the stage for the death. As long as they are convinced that it did.

The lesser included charges or criminal acts are important, in that under the Felony Murder Rule, if the victim died because of certain criminal acts, then that person is guilty of Murder One. This is written into the Iowa Murder Law.

Recall that a careful read of the arrest warrant and/or its application includes 3 numeric codes, the third of which is a physical lesser included criminal act that supports the Murder One charge.

However, the evidence for the associated acts (the Felony Assault, the Attempted or Completed Abduction or Kidnapping, or the SA) have to be presented in court so the Jury can decide if the lesser crime(s) supports the Murder One charge, especially if the murder itself was not witnessed or not confessed to (as in "I blocked it out").

Of course, CR has already confessed to a continuous chain of behaviors starting with running with her and ending with her "body" in the trunk of his car. If he did not kill her, then who?

Also, if she was alive while he put her in the trunk, or attempted to, that forced confinement in my book constitutes kidnapping. The abduction occurred when he grabbed her on the street, and dragged her to his car. Two different lesser included acts that each support the Murder One charge under the Iowa Murder Statute as written.

I think that the AG has a strong case just as presented in the arrest warrant application. He will present additional facts to the Jury to convince them of his narrative. Providing a menu of Charges to the Jury could run the risk of conviction of a lesser included charge only.

JIMHIOO

(Hello, Alethea are you out there?)

I am NOT an attorney, though I have prepped and worked with many. I am not a WS VE, but I have appeared in open court, in Louisiana 20+ years ago, as an Expert Witness in PI Civil cases only. My only experience with the Iowa Court system was a night in a city jail, a chain gang perp walk across the street to court, and an appearence in front of a Magistrate!

 

[MistyWaters]

Another case for your consideration. Another murder of a young, bright UI co-ed, in broad daylight. Some similarities to MT's case. Suspect also has initials CR (CDR). You may want to follow its progress in the Iowa court system, to see how the system works.

A Spanish National, a University of Iowa engenering student was killed in Ames, Iowa this week by a homeless man while she played a solo round of golf on a public golf course. This happened on a bright sunny day, with other golfers on the same course.

She was stabbed to death, and her body was left in a pond. Golfers who were following through called LE, when they saw her clubs unattentented and golf tees scatered on the ground. The suspect was quickly arrested, has been charged and is currently in custody, in Iowa. (Nevada, IA ?).

(WGN 9 - Man charged in first degree murder of Iowa State Golfer jailed on $5M bond.)

(Chicago Tribune - Homeless man charged in the stabbing death of a 22 year-old golfer at Iowa State.)

(Heavy.com - Collin Daniel Richards: 5 Fast Facts You Need To Know.)

(Wiki page for - Celia Barquin Arozamena)

Celia Barquin Arozamena was from Spain, with fair skin and blond hair. She looked like just any Mid-West farm girl, with a big smile. A European Amateur Woman's Golf Champion and an Iowa State female Athlete of the Year, who had recently played in the U.S.Woman's Open (but did not make the "cut"). She was a Senior completing a degree in Civil Engineering at the University of Iowa. A young athletic woman who was a "beautiful person who was loved by all her teammates and friends" according to her Golf coach.

Her suspected murderer is a homeless man, Collin Daniel Richards (CR - what a coincidence!), who had completed a prison sentence in June, with prior convictions for burglary (breaking into his grandparents home in Iowa) and harassment (he took a baseball bat to his girlfriend's car). He had recently told a member of his homeless encampment, near the Golf Course, that he "felt a need to rape and kill a woman". He stabbed his victim to death with wounds to the head, neck and torso, and left her body in a pond on the Golf course, where she played a partial last round of her young, promising life. His Facebook cover page has a "Let's do murder" meme.

She was a young athletic woman, with a club in her hand (or immediately at hand), and was still taken and killed. By comparison, MT did not have a chance.

It’s quite alarming, the various similarities between both cases.

In that case the perp acknowledged his compelling urge to rape and murder a victim. I wouldn’t be totally surprised if there are shades of a copy-cat killing, connected to that of MT.

While the general public might want to know full details of crimes, I do believe LE tries to be as prudent and cautious as possible when releasing facts because they are aware there are violent perverts out there who fantasize and become increasing motivated by following real life tragedies.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Delete post.

 

[Confusion]

I would think they may want to add kidnapping and any sexual assault charge they have evidence to prove on the chance that if lesser includeds are to be considered by the jury, and if they would happen to convict on 2nd degree, the added charges would increase his sentence (if he is also convicted of those, of course).

I think the problem is that they don't have evidence to prove there was a sexual assault, or that she was still alive when he put her in the trunk. I'm guessing that they feel it's better to just go with what they believe they can prove than to throw in the other charges that may not be proven since they could confuse the jury. MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

I would think they may want to add kidnapping and any sexual assault charge they have evidence to prove on the chance that if lesser includeds are to be considered by the jury, and if they would happen to convict on 2nd degree, the added charges would increase his sentence (if he is also convicted of those, of course).

While sexual assault might’ve certainly been the motive, I think it’d be near impossible to prove it took place prior to the victims death considering the body wasn’t found for weeks. But even so, if it could be,

Separate convictions for kidnapping, sexual assault and 2nd degree murder constitutes 1st degree felony murder, if premeditation and intent weren’t successfully proven. So it’s not required for charges to be filed separately, only that evidence is presented during the trial.

 

[Kensie]

So glad that the trial will start next year in the Spring.
I do feel like the 's lack of education will one of the focal points of his defense. Remember the mentally ill girl, Jodi Arias????? I wanted to stuff a sock down Kirk's mouth the 999 times he said it.

 

[Dudda]

Pure evil.

I thought he looked defeated today.

 

[A-MG]

Am I the only bothered by the fact that his facial hair still looks perfectly shaped. I know it's snarky, but....... That was the first thing I noticed.

Yes and no. "No", because it screams "vain"; which leads to his character, and if WE see it the jury will see it.

 

[Al Hoffman]

It’s quite alarming, the various similarities between both cases.

In that case the perp acknowledged his compelling urge to rape and murder a victim. I wouldn’t be totally surprised if there are shades of a copy-cat killing, connected to that of MT.

While the general public might want to know full details of crimes, I do believe LE tries to be as prudent and cautious as possible when releasing facts because they are aware there are violent perverts out there who fantasize and become increasing motivated by following real life tragedies.

True, but they also have online for that tutorial, including "Rape Van" that always starts with a simulated abduction, and Japanese Rape fantasy . All free, for the cost of Internet access.

I don't think that CDR, in Ames, was a copycat of CBR in Brooklyn at all. In MT's case, very few details have been released that could be copied, no LE details or confirmation of a SA has been given. No details of the weapon used or how many times or where MT was stabbed, other than a vague "sharp force injury" (which could include the claw side of a roofing hammer) and a passing, single mention by the ME of a "sharp object like a knife" on interview. In CDR's case, all of this and more (except SA allegations) have been released within 2 days of the murder.

No, I think that CDR simply had an itch, and scratched it, as he told his homeless camp mate: "I feel a need to rape and kill a woman".

CDR even had a "Let's commit murder" meme on his Facebook cover page. One wonders how many more women he has killed in his native Iowa. Recall all the up-thread discussion of CBR possibly being an experienced, violent, serial rapist? Go look at CDR to see what one should look like. I would LOVE to see the browsing history on his smartphone (I would, of course, wear gloves). Like CBR looking at LE attention focused on the "hog farmer", perhaps CDR felt the same relief (or more) when LE grabbed CBR, and he lead them to his one dead body in a corn field.

Another similarity between CDR and CBR, is that they both lived in underground communities that would have many reasons to NOT call LE about a homicidal nut job. If you call the police onto a Hobo Camp, you won't have many friends left.

JMOO

 

[MsJosie]

So glad that the trial will start next year in the Spring.
I do feel like the 's lack of education will one of the focal points of his defense. Remember the mentally ill girl, Jodi Arias????? I wanted to stuff a sock down Kirk's mouth the 999 times he said it.

Lack of education, yet able to get a drivers license and illegal id’s, follow directions and work at the same job for years, shows this person, although not having graduated still is able to process directions and instructions and that means this person knows right from wrong. IMO. Honestly, the defense can sure come up with some tall tales and see what ever they throw can stick on the wall.

 

[MistyWaters]

True, but they also have online for that tutorial, including "Rape Van" that always starts with a simulated abduction, and Japanese Rape fantasy . All free, for the cost of Internet access.

I don't think that CDR, in Ames, was a copycat of CBR in Brooklyn at all. In MT's case, very few details have been released that could be copied, no LE details or confirmation of a SA has been given. No details of the weapon used or how many times or where MT was stabbed, other than a vague "sharp force injury" (which could include the claw side of a roofing hammer) and a passing, single mention by the ME of a "sharp object like a knife" on interview. In CDR's case, all of this and more (except SA allegations) have been released within 2 days of the murder.

No, I think that CDR simply had an itch, and scratched it, as he told his homeless camp mate: "I feel a need to rape and kill a woman".

CDR even had a "Let's commit murder" meme on his Facebook cover page. One wonders how many more women he has killed in his native Iowa. Recall all the up-thread discussion of CBR possibly being an experienced, violent, serial rapist? Go look at CDR to see what one should look like. I would LOVE to see the browsing history on his smartphone (I would, of course, wear gloves). Like CBR looking at LE attention focused on the "hog farmer", perhaps CDR felt the same relief (or more) when LE grabbed CBR, and he lead them to his one dead body in a corn field.

Another similarity between CDR and CBR, is that they both lived in underground communities that would have many reasons to NOT call LE about a homicidal nut job. If you call the police onto a Hobo Camp, you won't have many friends left.

JMOO

The similarities that stood out for me were both young men allegedly stalked, attacked and murdered a lone, attractive, athletic female engaged in a sports activity in a location not considered totally isolated, and both deaths were a result of multiple sharp force injuries.

 

[Alethea]

I agree with you Al, the state will start with the most serious charges they think they can convict on. They may have evidence we don't know about. We don't know what was on his computer, his phone. What he said to people immediately after the murder, the next day. What if he confessed to his buddies? If he googled how to kill a woman in the days before the crime? The state can add charges as the evidence is evaluated, they can reduce the charges if they are concerned about over-charging due to LE mistakes or contamination or lack of admissible evidence (God forbid, but it's always a risk).

In any negotiation you want to start with your highest and best demand that you think you can reasonably get and leave yourself room for negotiation.

 

[tmar]

It’s quite alarming, the various similarities between both cases.

In that case the perp acknowledged his compelling urge to rape and murder a victim. I wouldn’t be totally surprised if there are shades of a copy-cat killing, connected to that of MT.

While the general public might want to know full details of crimes, I do believe LE tries to be as prudent and cautious as possible when releasing facts because they are aware there are violent perverts out there who fantasize and become increasing motivated by following real life tragedies.

Copy cats read facts: different methods of murder, stalking, theft, destruction, 'to cause panic' etc.
Here in Australia, finding NEEDLES in strawberries, in one State, caused thousands kilos of fruit to be destroyed: farmers livelihood.
Shortly after, NEEDLES found in different fruit, in other States, besides also strawberries.
Several copycats have already been arrested.
What next!!!
The initial Perpetrator is thrilled, I would think.
Idiots everywhere.

 

[Jaclin]

I thought he looked defeated today.

I wondered if they didn't tell him to stay up all night so that he might look upset in court. Nope. Not emotional. Just tired.

 

[Jaclin]

But...would there be any point to bring/amend more charges - if the most he can get is life in prison? I know there can be consecutive life sentences; but I have always thought that was dumb...since a person only has one life. jmo

I think in some states life doesn't mean life. You can get out paroled with good behavior. whatever. That's when the consecutive life sentences might make a difference.