Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #48

[mickey2942]

Thanks @PommyMommy. I will just stick to what is presented in court.

Do we definitely what the prosecution cannot use during trial

I read an article about the items not allowed, but was not sure if it was current.

Defense, prosecution file motions for court to consider in trial for death of Mollie Tibbetts

Also, is the charge for CBR only "First Degree Murder"? Are there any other charges?

 

[Niner]

Thanks @PommyMommy. I will just stick to what is presented in court.

Do we definitely what the prosecution cannot use during trial

I read an article about the items not allowed, but was not sure if it was current.

Defense, prosecution file motions for court to consider in trial for death of Mollie Tibbetts

Also, is the charge for CBR only "First Degree Murder"? Are there any other charges?

Not PommyMommy - but that is his only charge - 1st degree murder per my notes.

 

[mickey2942]

Not PommyMommy - but that is his only charge - 1st degree murder per my notes.

Homicide - Polk County Iowa.

Interesting.

"Felony murder can also be committed in different ways. Although there are technical exceptions, felony murder generally occurs when an individual kills another person while participating in a forcible felony. Forcible felonies are defined under Iowa law and include felonious child endangerment, felonious assault, sexual abuse, kidnapping and certain types of arson and burglary."

 

[otto]

Wow. So, if the jury doesn't decide this meets "1st degree murder" CBR could walk out of the court room? I am surprised that there were not any other charges. 2nd degree? Manslaughter?

Maybe the prosecution can show some premeditation?

Is "Kidnapping" only a federal charge? So, he could be charged with Kidnapping later?

Wouldn't the fact that he stalked her, circling around her when she was jogging, constitute pre-meditation?

 

[JudgeJoe]

Homicide - Polk County Iowa.

Interesting.

"Felony murder can also be committed in different ways. Although there are technical exceptions, felony murder generally occurs when an individual kills another person while participating in a forcible felony. Forcible felonies are defined under Iowa law and include felonious child endangerment, felonious assault, sexual abuse, kidnapping and certain types of arson and burglary."

They might be able to show premeditation w fitbit. If fitbit shows heartbeat after “event” at 8:40 pm abduction, CB had time to reconsider his options between there & the cornfield. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Wouldn't the fact that he stalked her, circling around her when she was jogging, constitute pre-meditation?

Yes, I think so. He could have just driven by and continued home but he circled around, passed her a few times and made the decision to get out of the car and chase her down. Imo

 

[mickey2942]

Wouldn't the fact that he stalked her, circling around her when she was jogging, constitute pre-meditation?

I would think that shows premeditation for the assault. Maybe that is where the defense is going with saying Mollie made him "angry". And he was not actually planning on killing her, but "lost it" when she threatened him.

I don't buy it. But at least according to the definition above, First degree murder is one that happens during a kidnapping or felony assault.

 

[MsBetsy]

I would think that shows premeditation for the assault. Maybe that is where the defense is going with saying Mollie made him "angry". And he was not actually planning on killing her, but "lost it" when she threatened him.

I don't buy it. But at least according to the definition above, First degree murder is one that happens during a kidnapping or felony assault.

Yes, I think it follows that whoever kidnapped and assaulted her also killed her. They don't even have to prove whether he planned to kill her or not. She died while he was carrying out a felony. As long as he intended to kidnap her, it was murder. Imo

 

[TL4S]

I would think that shows premeditation for the assault. Maybe that is where the defense is going with saying Mollie made him "angry". And he was not actually planning on killing her, but "lost it" when she threatened him.

I don't buy it. But at least according to the definition above, First degree murder is one that happens during a kidnapping or felony assault.

Kidnapping would assume he did not kill her on 385th Ave. I know many people here think he stabbed her in the cornfield, but if she did, in fact, die before he placed her in his trunk, then the prosecution has to prove pre-mediation for killing her on 385th. So if this is the case, would they go with felony assault?

 

[Warwick7]

It is interesting that the suppression included anything CBR said earlier in the questioning. But did not suppress the actual evidence in regards to finding her body. (Thank Goodness)! (Apparently, CBR had been given a Miranda warning 2x).

Prosecutors Show Car Trunk Blood Evidence in Murder of Mollie Tibbetts

I am really interested in the fact that blood/DNA from two other people was found in CBR's trunk. Aside from the blood/DNA of Mollie Tibbets. I wonder who's blood the other two unidentified people are...it doesn't seem to be very common to have blood in your trunk from various people.

"There was also a mixture of DNA from two other people, but analysis was unable to determine who, she said."

Also, the prosecution cannot discuss previous "bad acts" by the defendant. I wonder what those are...

When I heard that about DNA of other people I wondered if it was blood. I couldn't understand if it was actual blood. If it wasn't blood DNA then it could've been semen, skin cells, tissue, saliva, mucus, perspiration, urine, feces....
Any of which could come from a previous owner of the car.

 

[mickey2942]

Kidnapping would assume he did not kill her on 385th Ave. I know many people here think he stabbed her in the cornfield, but if she did, in fact, die before he placed her in his trunk, then the prosecution has to prove pre-mediation for killing her on 385th. So if this is the case, would they go with felony assault?

I think that is what the defense is going to double down on. Split hairs on the charge. Because it is confusing, and a rather grey area. I almost think that the prosecution should have added a lesser charge to be considered.

 

[BUF]

I think that is what the defense is going to double down on. Split hairs on the charge. Because it is confusing, and a rather grey area. I almost think that the prosecution should have added a lesser charge to be considered.

Sometimes they add lesser includeds while arguing jury instructions. In this case, IMO the prosecution has proved their case for first degree murder so far. He stalked her circling round and round. Pre meditation can happen in an instant prior to the crime. Remember, you can’t go by his word of what happened, but what evidence that they have telling the story of what they believe happened. It will be interesting to hear what the ME tells us tomorrow and what other witnesses will testify to.

At any rate, I think the prosecution’s case will be ending soon. We’ll see if the defense even puts on a case.

 

[Seattle1]

Kidnapping would assume he did not kill her on 385th Ave. I know many people here think he stabbed her in the cornfield, but if she did, in fact, die before he placed her in his trunk, then the prosecution has to prove pre-mediation for killing her on 385th. So if this is the case, would they go with felony assault?

I need to reference Iowa and kidnapping charges as it always surprised me that CBR only faced a single charge according to his criminal complaint/affidavit. Typically, kidnapping would apply regardless of whether Mollie was dead or alive when taken to the cornfield as she did not arrive there voluntarily.

https://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/Christhian-Bahena-Rivera-complaint-affidavit.pdf

 

[TL4S]

I need to reference Iowa and kidnapping charges as it always surprised me that CBR only faced a single charge according to his criminal complaint/affidavit. Typically, kidnapping would apply regardless of whether Mollie was dead or alive when taken to the cornfield as she did not arrive there voluntarily.

https://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/Christhian-Bahena-Rivera-complaint-affidavit.pdf

If she was not alive when he moved her from 385th Ave., there's no argument of consent, so kidnapping doesn't make sense to me. I'm not doubting that maybe it's kidnapping in legal terms, because I don't know legal definitions, but it seems some kind of desecration of a corpse charge would be more appropriate. IDK. Would LE have known if she was alive or dead when she went into the trunk from her Fitbit data? No kidnapping charges always made me think he did kill her on 385th. I wonder about a third location, too. Hopefully the ME answers this.

 

[Seattle1]

From CBR's affidavit linked above, he states he parked the car and ran beside Mollie. I don't believe there's any evidence that CBR struck Mollie with his vehicle -- not on the vehicle or the autopsy report.

 

[mickey2942]

I need to reference Iowa and kidnapping charges as it always surprised me that CBR only faced a single charge according to his criminal complaint/affidavit. Typically, kidnapping would apply regardless of whether Mollie was dead or alive when taken to the cornfield as she did not arrive there voluntarily.
https://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/Christhian-Bahena-Rivera-complaint-affidavit.pdf

Interesting. So, the prosecution needs to "prove" that CBR did kill Mollie during a felony assault or kidnapping. The fact that he knew where her body was, does not actually substantiate that he killed her.

Next week, and the autopsy should be interesting.

 

[Seattle1]

I need to reference Iowa and kidnapping charges as it always surprised me that CBR only faced a single charge according to his criminal complaint/affidavit. Typically, kidnapping would apply regardless of whether Mollie was dead or alive when taken to the cornfield as she did not arrive there voluntarily.

https://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/Christhian-Bahena-Rivera-complaint-affidavit.pdf

Located definition in Iowa and I don't think Kidnapping charged here because the State must believe that CBR inflicted harm on Mollie at the scene and/or prior to loading her in the trunk and taking her to the cornfield.

See the five elements required for kidnapping pursuant to IA CH 710.

https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/710.pdf

 

[mickey2942]

Located definition in Iowa and I don't think Kidnapping charged here because the State must believe that CBR inflicted harm on Mollie at the scene and/or prior to loading her in the trunk and taking her to the cornfield.

See the five elements required for kidnapping pursuant to IA CH 710.

https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/710.pdf

So, if CBR doesn't meet the bar for kidnapping, how can he be charged with 1st degree murder in Iowa? Murder that occurs with felony SA, or kidnapping?

 

[Seattle1]

Interesting. So, the prosecution needs to "prove" that CBR did kill Mollie during a felony assault or kidnapping. The fact that he knew where her body was, does not actually substantiate that he killed her.

Next week, and the autopsy should be interesting.

I disagree. Murder 1 (pursuant to Iowa law) does not require participating in forcible felony assault. It's either or. In this case, according to the complaint, the charge was based on CBR's actions - having malice aforethought, willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation.

Iowa defines murder as killing another person with express or implied "malice aforethought," which is basically a conscious intent to death or great bodily injury to another. Iowa divides murder into first-degree or second-degree murder, depending on the circumstances. As with other states, first-degree murder is the most serious homicide crime in Iowa, with the harshest penalties.

A person commits first-degree murder if he or she kills another person under any of the following circumstances:

• Willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation.
• While participating in a forcible felony.
• While escaping or attempting to escape from lawful custody.
• While imprisoned in a correctional institution. or city or county jail, intentionally kills a correctional officer, peace officer, public employee, or hostage.
• While committing child endangerment under certain circumstances or assault, kills a child and the death occurs under circumstances that manifest an extreme indifference to human life.
• While participating in an act of terrorism.

Iowa First-Degree Murder

https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/707.2.pdf

 

[TL4S]

I disagree. Murder 1 does not require participating in forcible felony assault. It's either or. In this case, according to the complaint, the charge was based on CBR's actions - having malice aforethought, willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation.

Iowa defines murder as killing another person with express or implied "malice aforethought," which is basically a conscious intent to death or great bodily injury to another. Iowa divides murder into first-degree or second-degree murder, depending on the circumstances. As with other states, first-degree murder is the most serious homicide crime in Iowa, with the harshest penalties.

A person commits first-degree murder if he or she kills another person under any of the following circumstances:

• Willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation.
• While participating in a forcible felony.
• While escaping or attempting to escape from lawful custody.
• While imprisoned in a correctional institution. or city or county jail, intentionally kills a correctional officer, peace officer, public employee, or hostage.
• While committing child endangerment under certain circumstances or assault, kills a child and the death occurs under circumstances that manifest an extreme indifference to human life.
• While participating in an act of terrorism.

Iowa First-Degree Murder

https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/707.2.pdf

I agree. I think, even if his story is truthful and he killed her right after she threatened to call the police, he made that decision, then and there, to harm her instead of turn around and leave. JMO.