ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

[sonjay]

Thirty-three percent of firearms kept in homes are not stored safely
If that's true, that's actually terrifying, and a total disgrace. One third - sounds like we've got a whole lot of irresponsible gun owners. Some would have us believe that most gun owners are storing their guns safely, and I guess 2/3 would be considered "most," but that's still an unacceptable number of unsecured weapons, much higher than I would have guessed.

That excerpt sounds to me like it's citing a percent of all homes with firearms.

What's the percent of homes with firearms where there are also young children?

I gotta say, before I had a grandson, I stored my firearms "unsafely." Only my husband and I live here. There was no need to keep them locked up. For years, we had guns lying around not locked up, including our home defense firearms, which we also kept loaded.

Now, small child visits regularly, firearms are kept locked up.

I can't panic about people without young children not keeping their firearms locked up. So, I'd really be more interested in what percent of homes with young children store their firearms unsafely, versus what percent of all homes with firearms do so.

 

[sonjay]

It's a metaphor, like "that ship has already sailed". In other words, as much as I wish it, banning private ownership of guns isn't going to happen.

See, that's exactly it. We know you want to.

Because gun banners know that they're unable to actually ban guns, they propose new regulations -- which are typically designed not to solve an actual problem, but to make gun ownership harder, more difficult and more expensive.

 

[nrdsb4]

About 4 million babies are born every year in the United States.

In 1 in 2,000 births, the baby is born as hermaphrodites. That's equal to a total of about 2,000 hermaphrodite babies born annually in the U.S.

2,000 hermaphrodite babies born every year vs. 400 children killed by unintentional firearm injuries.

Yes, actually, it's pretty freakishly rare. Obsession and paranoia about something doesn't make it more common, it just makes it scarier to those who are obsessed and paranoid about it.

Sorry, I disagree. 400 kids killed a year and 3000 injured is a lot, particularly as this is entirely preventable. Your bizarre hermaphrodite example doesn't make those numbers less tragic or less of a concern.

That excerpt sounds to me like it's citing a percent of all homes with firearms.

What's the percent of homes with firearms where there are also young children?

I gotta say, before I had a grandson, I stored my firearms "unsafely." Only my husband and I live here. There was no need to keep them locked up. For years, we had guns lying around not locked up, including our home defense firearms, which we also kept loaded.

Now, small child visits regularly, firearms are kept locked up.

I can't panic about people without young children not keeping their firearms locked up. So, I'd really be more interested in what percent of homes with young children store their firearms unsafely, versus what percent of all homes with firearms do so.

Now that is actually a good point. I would be interested in hearing the stats on homes with both guns and children.

 

[sonjay]

Sorry, I disagree. 400 kids killed a year and 3000 injured is a lot, particularly as this is entirely preventable. Your bizarre hermaphrodite example doesn't make those numbers less tragic or less of a concern.

If hermaphrodites are bizarre, then children dying from accidental gun injuries are even more bizarre.

Honestly, you're more likely to die falling off a ladder than from getting shot by accident in a Wal-Mart or any other public place.

You're more likely to drown.

You're far, far more likely to get killed by a drunk driver.

You're more likely to be raped.

You're more likely to give birth to Siamese twins.

You're more likely to be struck by lightning.

You're more likely to choke to death on your food.

You're more likely to overdose on prescription medication.

No, the vanishingly small percent of people killed by unintentional firearm injury doesn't make it any less tragic for those who get killed, or for their families. But seriously, it's better for everyone in all of society if we view risks in an appropriate perspective.

 

[al66pine]

Thirty-three percent of firearms kept in homes are not stored safely (Stennies, Ikeda, Leadbetter, Houston, & Sacks, 1999).

.... One third - sounds like we've got a whole lot of irresponsible gun owners. ...still an unacceptable number of unsecured weapons,...

sbm

What is 'stored safely?' Does that mean in locked gun cabinet, gun vault, gun safe? Did study examine only households w children under a given age residing there?

What about households w no children?

What if gun owner lives alone and does not keep gun in locking cabinet? Maybe normally keeps gun in or on nightstand.
If owner locks away gun for grandchild's annual weekend visit, is owner guilty of 'unsafe storage' the other 363 days of the yr, per study?

Last time a child was physically in our house was more than 5 yrs ago.
For a couple hour job, landscaper brought his 3 y/o, who played outside most of time, but asked to come in house to use bathroom.
Before letting her in house, I locked gun in vault and then removed it after the work was finished.
Did we store unsafely because gun was in vault only when child was in house, not 99.99%+ of the time when there was no child in home?

Can whoever posted above study concluding 33% of guns are not stored safely (or anyone) pls provide link to full study.
I've searched and not found the full study yet. Thx in adv.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Sorry if this sounds harsh but before I would allow my rights to bear arms (aka my safety) being removed, I would like to first ban irresponsible parents--cause they impact me a lot every day.

The truth.

Moo

 

[sonjay]

Sorry if this sounds harsh but before I would allow my rights to bear arms (aka my safety) being removed, I would like to first ban irresponsible parents--cause they impact me a lot every day.

The truth.

Moo

Oh, this! Sooooo this! I wish to heaven we could ban irresponsible parents.

 

[Elley Mae]

Thirty-three percent of firearms kept in homes are not stored safely (Stennies, Ikeda, Leadbetter, Houston, & Sacks, 1999).

sbm

What is 'stored safely?' Does that mean in locked gun cabinet, gun vault, gun safe? Did study examine only households w children under a given age residing there?

What about households w no children?

What if gun owner lives alone and does not keep gun in locking cabinet? Maybe normally keeps gun in or on nightstand.
If owner locks away gun for grandchild's annual weekend visit, is owner guilty of 'unsafe storage' the other 363 days of the yr, per study?

Last time a child was physically in our house was more than 5 yrs ago.
For a couple hour job, landscaper brought his 3 y/o, who played outside most of time, but asked to come in house to use bathroom.
Before letting her in house, I locked gun in vault and then removed it after the work was finished.
Did we store unsafely because gun was in vault only when child was in house, not 99.99%+ of the time when there was no child in home?

Can whoever posted above study concluding 33% of guns are not stored safely (or anyone) pls provide link to full study.
I've searched and not found the full study yet. Thx in adv.

here are two places but you have to log-in.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-137860103.html

https://login.medscape.com/login/ss...RzY2FwZS5jb20vdmlld2FydGljbGUvNTE1Njgx&ac=401

I personally find them to be bias, jmo.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If hermaphrodites are bizarre, then children dying from accidental gun injuries are even more bizarre.

Honestly, you're more likely to die falling off a ladder than from getting shot by accident in a Wal-Mart or any other public place.

You're more likely to drown.

You're far, far more likely to get killed by a drunk driver.

You're more likely to be raped.

You're more likely to give birth to Siamese twins.

You're more likely to be struck by lightning.

You're more likely to choke to death on your food.

You're more likely to overdose on prescription medication.

No, the vanishingly small percent of people killed by unintentional firearm injury doesn't make it any less tragic for those who get killed, or for their families. But seriously, it's better for everyone in all of society if we view risks in an appropriate perspective.

I agree that this should be put in perspective. For some, there may be no number of gun related deaths that would change their minds about restricting gun rights.

I'm sure if the only people killed by guns was reduced to thugs killed by homeowners protecting their families there would be some who would say that they should have bought better locks, called 911 and not shot the intruder. JMO.

 

[Donjeta]

Anything that kills 400 children a year is of concern to me. In some places, that would be an entire grade school.

People have been quite upset about Sandy Hook although only 20 children died there...

 

[Donjeta]

Well if accidental shootings are freakishly rare then it seems to me that self defense cases are even more freakishly rare...yet the off chance that there is an intruder is the reason everybody has to have unsafely stored weapons available to kids all the time.

RESULTS:

During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS:

Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I agree that this should be put in perspective. For some, there may be no number of gun related deaths that would change their minds about restricting gun rights.

I'm sure if the only people killed by guns was reduced to thugs killed by homeowners protecting their families there would be some who would say that they should have bought better locks, called 911 and not shot the intruder. JMO.

If the only people killed by guns were thugs killed by homeowners we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

People have been quite upset about Sandy Hook although only 20 children died there...

Of course people are upset with that tragedy. It also is a case where the way our country deals with the mentally ill should be examined. Banning certain types of guns or gun features is not the answer in my opinion.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Oh, this! Sooooo this! I wish to heaven we could ban irresponsible parents.

Right....people should think about that: parenting. So much responsibility, so much of an impact on our society, so many repercussions we all pay dearly for if not done soundly.

And yet, we as a society demand 0 requirements or responsibility.

Heck, I'm all for mandating a senior-level high school class for parenting & child-rearing. It would make more sense than learning about some obscure expedition 200+ years ago in history, if you ask me.

Back to the subject: leaving your purse unaccounted for in another aisle is irresponsible & asking for trouble. Leaving your purse unaccounted for in another aisle **that contains a loaded gun** is just beyond reckless.

Respect the gun. It's that simple.

Moo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If the only people killed by guns were thugs killed by homeowners we wouldn't be having this debate.

You may not have a problem with it. I'm sure that there would be some that would have a problem with it though. Look at all of the people who feel that LE officers shouldn't use a gun to protect themselves from attack. JMO.

 

[sonjay]

Well if accidental shootings are freakishly rare then it seems to me that self defense cases are even more freakishly rare...yet the off chance that there is an intruder is the reason everybody has to have unsafely stored weapons available to kids all the time.

You couldn't be more wrong. Defensive uses of guns occur somewhere between 500,000 and 3 million times per year. Even the left-leaning, anti-gun slate.com says so:
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html

The study that you cited only counts people who are dead as a result of a self-defensive use of a gun. But the vast, vast majority of defensive uses of firearms do not result in the death of the attacker.

Do you really want me to start linking to news articles about successful uses of firearms in self-defense? I've got an endless supply of them, and more every day.

 

[sonjay]

Right....people should think about that: parenting. So much responsibility, so much of an impact on our society, so many repercussions we all pay dearly for if not done soundly.

And yet, we as a society demand 0 requirements or responsibility.

Heck, I'm all for mandating a senior-level high school class for parenting & child-rearing. It would make more sense than learning about some obscure expedition 200+ years ago in history, if you ask me.

Back to the subject: leaving your purse unaccounted for in another aisle is irresponsible & asking for trouble. Leaving your purse unaccounted for in another aisle **that contains a loaded gun** is just beyond reckless.

Respect the gun. It's that simple.

Moo

BBM. These days, I think that class needs to be mandated for sixth- or seventh-graders. At least, for those who are themselves children of irresponsible parents.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

You couldn't be more wrong. Defensive uses of guns occur somewhere between 500,000 and 3 million times per year. Even the left-leaning, anti-gun slate.com says so:
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html

The study that you cited only counts people who are dead as a result of a self-defensive use of a gun. But the vast, vast majority of defensive uses of firearms do not result in the death of the attacker.

Do you really want me to start linking to news articles about successful uses of firearms in self-defense? I've got an endless supply of them, and more every day.

An intruder breaks into an occupied home and hears the sound of a 12ga shotgun being racked. What does the miscreant do? He runs like hell out of there is what he does.

The gun has done it's job without a shot being fired and no gun death statistic is recorded. JMO.

 

[Donjeta]

Of course people are upset with that tragedy. It also is a case where the way our country deals with the mentally ill should be examined. Banning certain types of guns or gun features is not the answer in my opinion.

But why on earth are people upset? if 400 dead kids are nothing to worry about because it's so freakishly rare, then why should anybody care about only 20?

 

[Donjeta]

You couldn't be more wrong. Defensive uses of guns occur somewhere between 500,000 and 3 million times per year. Even the left-leaning, anti-gun slate.com says so:
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html

The study that you cited only counts people who are dead as a result of a self-defensive use of a gun. But the vast, vast majority of defensive uses of firearms do not result in the death of the attacker.

Do you really want me to start linking to news articles about successful uses of firearms in self-defense? I've got an endless supply of them, and more every day.

BBM. No it doesn't, it says, fatal or non-fatal.