ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

[gxm]

Has it been determined that the gun make/model had an external safety that had been left off? I lost several days to the flu and last I recall LE wasn't divulging the gun info.

 

[CuriousGuy]

No what started as a tragic story of a 2 yr old shooting his mother has been hijacked and turned into an anti gun thread.

Not surprisingly so I may add. Happens in the MSM every single time a tragedy involving a firearm occurs.

 

[eucalyptuz]

I really don't think this thread has been anti-gun. When I first started reading last night it seemed to be pro-gun, but now that I've read most of it, I'd say it seems pretty balanced. Just because some people would like to see less of these accidents happening doesn't mean they are anti-gun maybe they'd just like to see gun owners properly educated/prepared to own a weapon of lethal force...

 

[Zuri]

I won't get into the gun advocacy or gun control argument as it seems too volatile. I am just so sorry this mother was killed, needlessly. I hope this story will serve as a reminder for all parents who are gun owners to take time to make sure a loaded weapon is not anywhere near a child. JMV

 

[TrackerSam]

I really don't think this thread has been anti-gun. When I first started reading last night it seemed to be pro-gun, but now that I've read most of it, I'd say it seems pretty balanced. Just because some people would like to see less of these accidents happening doesn't mean they are anti-gun maybe they'd just like to see gun owners properly educated/prepared to own a weapon of lethal force...

She was properly educated and prepared, unless you have other proof that she wasn't. I believe she just forgot it was there.
You can't outlaw, out train, out prepare accidents.

 

[daisy7]

She was properly educated and prepared, unless you have other proof that she wasn't. I believe she just forgot it was there.
You can't outlaw, out train, out prepare accidents.

If she was properly educated, trained and prepared, she wouldn't have "forgotten" it was there. JMO.

 

[nrdsb4]

Because you say so? What nonsense.

We are all just giving our opinions. When YOU make a statement, it is also an opinion, and I suppose someone could respond with "because you say so? What nonsense." However, that's really not following the spirit of this web site. We can disagree and present arguments why we disagree, but in the end, we are ALL "just saying so."

 

[Mrs G Norris]

She was properly educated and prepared, unless you have other proof that she wasn't. I believe she just forgot it was there.
You can't outlaw, out train, out prepare accidents.

How could she have 'just forgot' the bag was brand new and she 'carried' every day of her life.

The day after Christmas, she took her new gift with her on a trip with her husband and her 2-year-old son. They headed hundreds of miles north to the end of a country road where Terry Rutledge, her husband’s father, lived. The father-in-law learned of the new purse.

“It was designed for that purpose — to carry a concealed firearm,” Rutledge told The Washington Post late Tuesday night. “And you had to unzip a compartment to find the handgun.

On Tuesday morning, that was exactly what Veronica Rutledge’s son did — with the most tragic of outcomes. Veronica, 29, arrived at a nearby Wal-Mart in Hayden with her three nieces and son, her gun “zippered closed” inside her new purse, her father-in-law said. Then, in the back of the store, near the electronics section, the purse was left unattended for a moment.

.....

“They carried one every day of their lives, and they shot extensively,” Rutledge said. “They loved it. Odd as it may sound, we are gun people.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/31/the-inside-story-of-how-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/

Also if she was properly educated and prepared, how does 'forgetting' you have a gun fall in with that?

 

[MsFacetious]

She didn't forget it was there because it had JUST been put there.
This wasn't a bag that had been in storage for months.
This was a bag she got the day before. :twocents:

The only argument I could make that would absolve the mother of responsibility...
Is if her husband put the gun in the bag and did not tell her it was there.
That would cause me to not blame the mother for this tragedy. :twocents:

Since I have seen no indication that is the case, the blame falls on Mom in my opinion. :twocents:

 

[daisy7]

Has it been determined that the gun make/model had an external safety that had been left off? I lost several days to the flu and last I recall LE wasn't divulging the gun info.

I know nothing about guns, but Sonya does and this is what she posted:

Article says she was carrying a 9 mm Smith & Wesson M&P Shield semi-automatic. That is small gun (less than an inch thick) and it DOES have a safety. She must have had it chamber loaded without the safety on. Wow.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/...entist-shot-by-son-was.html?sp=/99/1687/&rh=1

View attachment 66585

 

[Fifth Avenue]

What 'agenda', to ban guns? LOL!!

Yes, as I have said many times, the minute anyone mentions regulations or more diligence, or god forbid, training .. the people who are, for want of a better term, 'pro gun' start jumping up and down about banning, because having a rational discussion about regulations just CAN NOT HAPPEN, because ZERO regulation is YOUR agenda.

America today is not some wild west, there are already regulations, laws, background checks in place.
Some states ban open carry, while others ban or restrict high-capacity magazines etc
So it is regulated.
US constitution, namely 2nd amendment protects gun ownership.
In USA left-leaning liberal people often support more gun control, while more conservative right wing supports gun rights.
It is very important issue, for example during election campaign candidates for Senate or Congress, discuss their stance on gun rights/control.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Caffeine]

As mentioned before, not all Shields have a thumb safety. When it debuted they all came with a safety. However, now they make one without a safety.

Regardless the most important "safety" she failed to use was the one between her ears.

Safety engaged or not, poor placement of a loaded gun on her part. The Shield is not an unsafe gun by any means but her actions made it dangerous.


Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2

 

[daisy7]

As mentioned before, not all Shields have a thumb safety. When it debuted they all came with a safety. However, now they make one without a safety.

Regardless the most important "safety" she failed to use was the one between her ears.

Safety engaged or not, poor placement of a loaded gun on her part. The Shield is not an unsafe gun by any means but her actions made it dangerous.


Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2

I have a good friend who knows about guns and when we discussed this incident, he said he didn't think it had a safety. He also said that in his opinion, there had to have been a bullet in the chamber for a toddler to have been able to shoot it so easily and quickly. Like I said, I know nothing about guns, just repeating what I was told.

 

[sonjay]

Intruder shot by homeowner in Wisconsin:
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/27748318/intruder-shot-by-homeowner-in-centuria-wisconsin

Michigan: Home invader shot & killed, two accomplices run away:
http://fox11online.com/2014/11/10/one-man-dead-during-a-menominee-home-break-in/

Concealed carrier shoots at robber, who runs away:
http://www.wisn.com/news/woman-pulls-out-gun-fires-at-wouldbe-robber/29709414?absolute=true

Concealed carrier shoots at 4 attackers - one killed, three run away:
http://fox6now.com/2014/09/01/man-shot-killed-on-milwaukees-south-side/

Man shot and killed after breaking into apartment:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/impd-robbery-attempt-results-in-fatal-shooting

Fireworks stand employee stops robbery by shooting robber:
http://www.click2houston.com/news/h...ots-thief-in-southwest-harris-county/30470976

Church pastor defends self with gun after being shot at by maintenance worker:
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/1-hospitalized-after-shooting-osceola-county-churc/njcsY/

My comment: Wow. Who carries a gun at church? A pastor who wants to stay alive, that's who.

Homeowner shoots, kills home invader:
http://www.news4jax.com/news/jso-investigation-in-arlington/27504490

89-year-old WWII vet shoots robber:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...lake-park-jeweler-stands-grounds-shoot/ng8cx/

Dad shoots & kills home invader:
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/26838600/detectives-investigate-fatal-sarasota-shooting

My comment: What kind of parent keeps a loaded firearm in the home? One who wants to protect his children, that's who.

Teen saves his grandma from home invaders:
http://www.wbtv.com/story/27644684/one-shot-killed-during-alleged-break-in-in-southeast-charlotte

My comment: Wow, what kind of person leaves a firearm where a teenager can get access to it? A smart grandfather who has trained his grandson in the safe use of firearms, that's who.

Marine veteran stops home invasion by shooting invader as he climbs through window:
http://www.click2houston.com/news/h...-suspect-caught-climbing-into-window/29644194

Homeowner stops home invasion by shooting two female home invaders:
http://abc13.com/news/two-women-shot-by-homeowner-during-break-in/371805/

My comment: The homeowner called 911 not once but twice, first to report strangers at the door, then a second time during the actual break-in. So who keeps a loaded firearm at home? Someone who knows that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Elderly man kills robber outside grocery store:
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/201...-outside-northwest-dallas-grocery-store.html/

My comment: Who needs to carry a gun to a grocery store? Someone who knows he can be attacked anytime, anywhere.

Homeowner shoots two home invaders:
http://abc13.com/news/sheriffs-office-homeowner-shot-two-suspects/334321/

My comment: The article refers to them as burglars, but they were two masked, armed men who broken in and tied up the homeowner, who managed to get his gun out of the safe when the "burglars" weren't looking. They probably were not there merely to burgle. Most likely, this man's 5-year-old daughter still has a father due to his quick thinking.

Good samaritan pulls his concealed weapon and stops assault on a woman:
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/12/26/good-samaritan-gunman-stops-assault-in-progress/

Smoke shop employee stops armed robber by pulling his own gun:
http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruce...uces-smoke-shop-employee-fatally-shoots-armed

Senior citizen, on his way home with his wife, shoots one of a group of armed robbers in the nose - the rest run away:
http://www.wtvy.com/home/headlines/One-Person-Wounded-In-Hartford-Shooting-282797281.html

Armed robber, surprised by victim being armed, drops wallet and gun as he flees:
http://www.al.com/news/huntsville/index.ssf/2014/08/huntsville_robber_drops_gun_wa.html

Grandmother shoots home intruder:
http://fox10tv.com/2014/07/21/grandmother-shoots-would-be-burglary-suspect/

68-year old man shoots, injures two home invaders:
http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/12/east_lake_man_shoots_2_burglar.html

Disabled veteran shoots two home intruders:
http://www.gastongazette.com/spotli...n-warns-suspects-not-to-return-1.410036?tc=cr

My comment: These senior citizens are older, weaker, and often physically frail or fragile. Without a firearm, they have no way to effectively defend themselves against even unarmed intruders, who are typically younger, stronger and healthier, and who often work in pairs or groups.

Homeowner shoots multiple home invaders after invaders pistol-whipped him and tied up the homeowner and his wife:
http://www.king5.com/story/news/crime/2014/11/20/lakewood-home-invasion-federal-way-death/70009186/

Want more? I got plenty.

This one's an oldie but a goody:
Mom saves her own life and her 9-year-old twin daughters from home invader
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/woman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder/nTm7s/

My comment: This woman cared enough about her children that she was armed even while at home. The intruder was clearly not there merely to burgle. The woman and her daughters had gone upstairs and hidden in the attic. The intruder found them, and fortunately he ran away after she emptied her revolver into him. This one is a good example of the need for standard-capacity magazines.

 

[sonjay]

Believe me, I DON'T! I forced my husband to give up his gun and he did. It's the others who have guns who put us at risk. I shop at Walmart, I could've easily been a victim of this woman's son had I lived in Idaho.

Susan Gonzalez hated guns too. She begged her husband to get rid of his, but he refused. Fortunately, she survived to be grateful that he wouldn't give in to her irrational fear:
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/071800/met_3568307.html

 

[LinasK]

Susan Gonzalez hated guns too. She begged her husband to get rid of his, but he refused. Fortunately, she survived to be grateful that he wouldn't give in to her irrational fear:
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/071800/met_3568307.html

It was a deal breaker. I gave him an ultimatum- his gun or me, but he wasn't going to force me to live with a gun, he chose me! Had my DH refused, that would have been the end of our relationship.

 

[Harmony 2]

This is a hot button topic. Opinions are very strong on both sides of the issue. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Please debate the facts in a constructive and civil manner. There is no need to get personal.

I am going to ask again to stay on topic as posts are starting to veer off the tracks.

 

[sonjay]

Wal-Mart, anyone?

Here's what happens when there's no one around with a gun:

Knife attack leaves 8 hurt at store

“Nobody tried to stop him and he kept going,” Mr. Williams said.

http://enquirer.com/editions/2001/05/08/loc_kentucky_digest.html


Here's what happens when there's a person with a gun:

Gun-carrying Customer Puts End To Store Scuffle

While in the checkout line at a Wal-Mart, Sandra Suter saw a scuffle when a man lunged and cut two employees with a knife.

"I have a concealed-weapons permit," Suter, 53, said as she whipped out a .40-caliber pistol from her purse.

"Either drop the knife, or I'll shoot you," she said, holding the weapon to the man's face. She repeated her threat.

The man dropped the knife and surrendered to store security.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2000-05-25/news/0005250024_1_knife-suter-scuffle

 

[daisy7]

HOMESTEAD (CBSMiami) – A man is dead after his 6-year-old grandson accidentally pulled the trigger of his uncle’s unattended rifle during a barbecue at the family’s home. http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/05/27/6-year-old-fatally-shoots-grandfather-with-uncles-rifle/

A 4-year-old boy was fatally shot while holding his parents' gun at his home in Merrillville, Indiana, police said.

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...With-Parents-Gun-259661311.html#ixzz3O0906IiP

FRAYSER, Tenn. (FOX13) - A Memphis Police spokeswoman and family members say a six-year-old boy accidentally shot his four-year-old younger sister in the face Sunday evening at their grandmother's home in Frayser. http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/27626366/4-year-old-shot-in-frayser

3-year-old boy shoots twin brother http://wtvr.com/2014/06/09/child-shot-hopewell/

A Navarro County 3-year-old died Monday after being shot in the head with a shotgun by his 8-year-old cousin. http://www.fox4news.com/story/24933256/navarro-county

An 11-year-old Florida boy has died after being shot by a four-year-old relative on Mother's Day at a Lake City apartment complex, according to a Department of Children and Families spokesperson. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/15/-jarvan-jackson-11-year-old-shot-_n_3278506.html

All of these cases mean an adult did not keep their weapon secured. How is it that these "accidents" involving children keep happening over and over? I'm really perplexed that anyone thinks this is ok as long as they have the right to own a gun?

 

[sonjay]

HOMESTEAD (CBSMiami) – A man is dead after his 6-year-old grandson accidentally pulled the trigger of his uncle’s unattended rifle during a barbecue at the family’s home. http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/05/27/6-year-old-fatally-shoots-grandfather-with-uncles-rifle/

A 4-year-old boy was fatally shot while holding his parents' gun at his home in Merrillville, Indiana, police said.

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...With-Parents-Gun-259661311.html#ixzz3O0906IiP

FRAYSER, Tenn. (FOX13) - A Memphis Police spokeswoman and family members say a six-year-old boy accidentally shot his four-year-old younger sister in the face Sunday evening at their grandmother's home in Frayser. http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/27626366/4-year-old-shot-in-frayser

3-year-old boy shoots twin brother http://wtvr.com/2014/06/09/child-shot-hopewell/

A Navarro County 3-year-old died Monday after being shot in the head with a shotgun by his 8-year-old cousin. http://www.fox4news.com/story/24933256/navarro-county

An 11-year-old Florida boy has died after being shot by a four-year-old relative on Mother's Day at a Lake City apartment complex, according to a Department of Children and Families spokesperson. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/15/-jarvan-jackson-11-year-old-shot-_n_3278506.html

All of these cases mean an adult did not keep their weapon secured. How is it that these "accidents" involving children keep happening over and over? I'm really perplexed that anyone thinks this is ok as long as they have the right to own a gun?

NOBODY thinks it's okay.