ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

[Mrs G Norris]

Target shooting is an Olympic sport. The news articles have all stated the mother and father enjoyed target shooting. My brother, a Marine and his children, one a police officer, enjoy going to the range together. It is a social activity as most sports tend to be....

Veronica Rutledge, 29, was a hunter and target shooter, who had a concealed weapons permit.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/dec/31/gun-toddler-used-shot-mom-was-purses-holster/

http://www.usashooting.org/about

She must have been target shooting every time she left the house then? Clearly she had the gun on her for self protection, otherwise there was no reason for her to have it with her while shopping with the kids at Walmart.

 

[Sonya610]

.
First break in routine here seems to have bn gun-in-purse carry, instead of waist-holster-carry.
Other factors = on vacation schedule, not work schedule; 3 additional children accompanying mom & tot to store, etc.

In this case there is no excuse. They were "gun people" so she almost certainly had a choice of handguns available, she could have chosen a weapon that would be very difficult or impossible for a 2 year old to fire.

Secondly she could have secured the compartment when her kid was around. Those were choices that should have been thought out in advance before she started using a carry handbag.

FYI this topic is being debated on gun forums all over right now, it isn't as if gun owners just say "oh well", course the debate is about SAFE carry not "guns are good/bad".

 

[Donjeta]

She's a victim. She may have planned to go target shooting after her trip to Walmart but it is irrelevant because she had a license to carry a concealed weapon. Just as other shoppers may have been carrying a concealed weapon.

Walmart SELLS guns and accidents inside the store have happened with those guns.

The man, John Crawford III, was holding an air rifle he had picked up off a store shelf when police shot him. A prosecutor called the case a "perfect storm" with "no bad guys," but the family has said police used excessive force.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/16/justice/walmart-shooting-john-crawford/

Yeah, God knows there have been plenty of other incidents involving guns over the years in many places. Your point is?

Target shooting and hunting are largely irrelevant here because Wal Mart is not where you go to practice those sports. JMO.

 

[Fifth Avenue]

Its obviously very emotional topic for some.
Because it's not the first time (unfortunately won't be the last) when this kind of thing happens, a sibling, playmate or family member killed accidentally, perhaps good to remind people again and again to keep firearms out of reach of children.

If not sure, check. If don't remember, double check.
If don't know (for example if it's loaded), ask!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Would a two year old who had never fired a gun before, nor seen the gun go into the zipped section even do that?

 

[Donjeta]

Again, to help prevent these types of gun and shooting accidents, learning about gun safety is important.

Unfortunately, many parents don't store their guns safely, even when they have young kids in the home. In fact, one study showed that 85% of parents who owned guns did not practice safe gun storage.
To protect children from gun and shooting accidents, the typical gun safety advice that you will get from your pediatrician includes that you:

keep your guns locked
keep your guns unloaded
keep your ammunition locked
keep your ammunition in a separate area from your gun

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/safety/a/gun-accidents.htm

A New York Times review of hundreds of child firearm deaths found that accidental shootings occurred roughly twice as often as the records indicate, because of idiosyncrasies in how such deaths are classified by the authorities. The killings of Lucas, Cassie and Alex, for instance, were not recorded as accidents. Nor were more than half of the 259 accidental firearm deaths of children under age 15 identified by The Times in eight states where records were available.

As a result, scores of accidental killings are not reflected in the official statistics that have framed the debate over how to protect children from guns.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[MyBelle]

She must have been target shooting every time she left the house then? Clearly she had the gun on her for self protection, otherwise there was no reason for her to have it with her while shopping with the kids at Walmart.

That's not your decision to make for her. The mother had a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon. Doesn't matter why she had a gun with her at any point in time. The assumption that nobody else with kids was carrying a concealed weapon is a baseless assumption.

 

[nrdsb4]

This woman had NO BUSINESS carrying a gun, at least that day. The outcome proves it.

That in no way implies I don't support or accept the second amendment. People who cannot carry a gun without making it accessible to toddlers need to leave the guns at home when going out and about with young children. It boggles the mind that anyone could argue differently.

 

[K_Z]

I have one of those purses designed for purse carry. I used to carry occasionally that way, but I realized it was way too much trouble to keep my purse always on my person, and to always put my carry gun somewhere safe when I got home. I switched to on-body carry only quite a few years ago. I understand why some some women purse-carry, but I can't advocate that method. It's simply too easy to allow your attention to lapse for a moment.

Also wouldn't it be more difficult to access in a bag if you did need to use it quickly? Like I would imagine it would be .. same reason I tuck my mobile phone into a shoulder strap when I'm active, but need to take a call if one comes in.

I think the fallacy that some critics have about specially designed "conceal carry" bags, purses, and totes is that they erroneously believe the bag compartment is a safety device. The bags are designed to CONCEAL, not provide safety for a loaded firearm. The SAFETY is the vigilance of the person who owns and carries the firearm.

There are transport cases that can be locked, portable safes, etc. However, a conceal carry bag/ purse is not intended to prevent access; to the contrary, they are designed to FACILITATE access and use, in an emergency.

IMO, the more distance placed between the owner of the concealed carry firearm, and the firearm itself, the higher the potential for a mishap, or "unauthorized"/ unintended access by another person, child, or criminal. This is exactly what happened here, IMO. IMO, a cross body conceal carry purse that leave your hands free, but can't easily be set down, is infinitely safer than a slouchy bag or briefcase type carry bag. But that's a personal preference.

 

[Sonya610]

The man, John Crawford III, was holding an air rifle he had picked up off a store shelf when police shot him. A prosecutor called the case a "perfect storm" with "no bad guys," but the family has said police used excessive force.

So was that air rifle sitting on a store shelf WITHOUT A BOX that contains operating instructions? Not likely.

If Crawford took the rifle OUT of the box and started carrying it around the store and pointing it at people he is most definitely to blame for that incident. That guy was either stupid, crazy or high.

 

[K_Z]

I'm actually also curious if it was the very first day this woman had used the new purse.

 

[Donjeta]

That's not your decision to make for her. The mother had a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon. Doesn't matter why she had a gun with her at any point in time. The assumption that nobody else with kids was carrying a concealed weapon is a baseless assumption.

No one is making such an assumption.

JMO.

 

[MyBelle]

So was that air rifle sitting on a store shelf WITHOUT A BOX that contains operating instructions? Not likely.

If Crawford took the rifle OUT of the box and started carrying it around the store and pointing it at people he is most definitely to blame for that incident. That guy was either stupid, crazy or high.

My only point is that there have been other accidental shootings in WalMart. This thread has morphed from an accidental shooting of a young mother to a discussion on gun control that I don't wish to participate in. Have a great day...

 

[Donjeta]

Crawford's death was not an accident. The officer fired his gun on purpose.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

When I see that kind of reaction only over gun deaths, but not about anything else, it's fairly clear that people care mainly about banning guns, and not so much about saving children's lives.

Wrong. You might have missed my post above. I am not at all about banning guns.

However, if I could, I would totally ban guns from people who are too irresponsible to keep them out of a child's reach.

 

[MyBelle]

I'm actually also curious if it was the very first day this woman had used the new purse.

All the media have reported is that the mother received the purse as a Christmas gift and the family was in Hayden for the holidays visiting his family. They live in Blackfoot ID.

 

[DeDee]

Just to go back for a moment on the strength required to pull the trigger, I am not convinced a 2yo could do this. Are we certain the mom did not, in any way, have her hand near the weapon? How close to the weapon was she when it was fired?
My 3yo granddaughter could not pull the trigger. No way. Not even with both of her tiny pointing fingers inside the trigger pull and the butt of the gun against her chest. That requires a great sum of ambidexterity few young children possess.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Just to go back for a moment on the strength required to pull the trigger, I am not convinced a 2yo could do this. Are we certain the mom did not, in any way, have her hand near the weapon? How close to the weapon was she when it was fired?
My 3yo granddaughter could not pull the trigger. No way. Not even with both of her tiny pointing fingers inside the trigger pull and the butt of the gun against her chest. That requires a great sum of ambidexterity few young children possess.

That's why I am wondering if he had been taught to do it already, CCTV likely captured the incident in a Walmart right?

 

[Donjeta]

As per the Daily Mail:

In-store CCTV captured the shocking moment in the electronics aisle as the boy, who was sitting in the trolley seat, reached into his mother’s handbag where he found the gun and pulled the trigger.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gift-better-conceal-weapon.html#ixzz3Nc99W2ca
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[jjenny]

Just to go back for a moment on the strength required to pull the trigger, I am not convinced a 2yo could do this. Are we certain the mom did not, in any way, have her hand near the weapon? How close to the weapon was she when it was fired?
My 3yo granddaughter could not pull the trigger. No way. Not even with both of her tiny pointing fingers inside the trigger pull and the butt of the gun against her chest. That requires a great sum of ambidexterity few young children possess.

There is no doubt whatsoever, considering it's on store surveillance video.