ID - 2 year boy accidentally shoots and kills mother in walmart in ths US

[Elley Mae]

But by the same reasoning we should have no laws at all, because somebody somewhere will break any law we pass.

Whether or not I agree, I at least understand the argument that citizens need lethal protection to match the firepower of professional criminals, stalkers, psychopaths, etc. What I don't understand is why the same argument applies to concealed carry.

If anything, wouldn't it be a greater deterrent if everybody carrying had his or her weapon out where criminals could see it? Aren't we expecting too much if we assume a psychopath is going to be deterred by the mere possibility that somebody in the room may have a concealed weapon?

bbm Guess who is the first one shot.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

When discussing or debating a heated topic such as the right to bear arms & guns....one has to be able to put yourself in the "other's side" for just one moment & see if there's any MERIT to their point of view.

If you can't do that, then there's no point in the discussion, iykwim?

Moo

 

[Sonya610]

Whether or not a gang member carries a concealed weapon tells me nothing as to why a a citizen carrying a lawful weapon needs to conceal it.

In some states open carry is illegal (even Texas).

Many folks do NOT want to open carry because it could make them a target for gun theft; thugs often carry cheap low end firearms, CCW holders usually have much nicer weapons. You can be sure if thugs saw someone carrying a $600-$800 handgun they would be very tempted to steal/rob for it.

Criminals always have an advantage over victims because THEY are the ones that target, plan and initiate. The victim is at a disadvantage because they have to think fast enough to react to a sudden threat they didn't see coming. Open carry takes away the small advantage armed victims have. The cop killings are a good example, if criminals KNOW the cops are armed they make sure the police don't even have a chance to protect themselves.

 

[TrackerSam]

In some states open carry is illegal (even Texas).

Many folks do NOT want to open carry because it could make them a target for gun theft; thugs often carry cheap low end firearms, CCW holders usually have much nicer weapons. You can be sure if thugs saw someone carrying a $600-$800 handgun they would be very tempted to steal/rob for it.

Criminals always have an advantage over victims because THEY are the ones that target, plan and initiate. The victim is at a disadvantage because they have to think fast enough to react to a sudden threat they didn't see coming. Open carry takes away the small advantage armed victims have. The cop killings are a good example, if criminals KNOW the cops are armed they make sure the police don't even have a chance to protect themselves.

An excellent point IMO.

 

[TrackerSam]

With a loaded gun in his bed, if we're referring to the same case. Not the normal situation. The very reason not to have a gun in the home. We don't need militias anymore.

How do you plan to disarm the criminal element? We'll pass a law.

 

[Morag]

I've never been scared enough to own or carry a gun. If I lived in fear, I'd live elsewhere.

 

[TrackerSam]

I've never been scared enough to own or carry a gun. If I lived in fear, I'd live elsewhere.

Owning a gun isn't living in fear, it's being prepared.

 

[CoolJ]

I would be very interested to hear from someone who is non American but more pro-gun than I am, about how they feel about a Mother shopping in Walmart with her children and at the same time carrying a loaded handgun in her purse? Anybody?

 

[al66pine]

.... but if it is true that I don't have the right to distance myself from a woman juggling shopping, four children
AND a loaded revolver, that is seriously effed up! I didn't ask this question to start yet another argument,
but it seems the Second Amendment is being used to give those who like their guns privileges far beyond the rights afforded the rest of us.

sbm bbm

Respectfully, not understanding your stmt: you don't have the right to distance yourself?
Are you saying b/c of CCW law, you are not able to see that a shopper's gun in purse (or other ppl w gun in holster)
and therefore you do not detect the gun, so cannot distance yourself.
Or maybe saying something else?

I find virtually all your posts are insightful and literate so think I'm missing something. Nova or anyone? Thx in adv.

 

[eucalyptuz]

Not sure if anyone posted this here yet but a bit of levity from Australian TV presenters about home defence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBTFRCvESCU

 

[Morag]

Owning a gun isn't living in fear, it's being prepared.

If I felt I had to be always prepared to shoot someone, I'd live somewhere that I didn't feel that way. And I have lived in major cities and small towns all over the US and Europe.

 

[Brightbird]

I'm neither in fear nor prepared. I guess I'm screwed, lol.

 

[eucalyptuz]

I would be very interested to hear from someone who is non American but more pro-gun than I am, about how they feel about a Mother shopping in Walmart with her children and at the same time carrying a loaded handgun in her purse? Anybody?

A true conundrum: A pro-gun person from a country other than the USA?!? I'm sure they exist but in all my travels I've yet to meet one...

 

[Mrs G Norris]

A true conundrum: A pro-gun person from a country other than the USA?!? I'm sure they exist but in all my travels I yet to meet one...

We do have one senator that supports it, I don't think many support his views however: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-...un-push-rejected-by-opposition-greens/5975210

 

[sonjay]

A true conundrum: A pro-gun person from a country other than the USA?!? I'm sure they exist but in all my travels I've yet to meet one...

Oh, yes, they exist. We had an Australian guy visiting us here a couple of years ago. Very pro-gun. But very limited in shooting opportunities. He was delightfully gobsmacked at the number of guns we had in our home, and the guns our friends showed up with. And he had an absolute blast shooting all kinds of handguns and long guns that were strictly forbidden in his home country.

He also giggled like a little girl when he shot our tater cannon. The tater cannon brings that out in people.

 

[CoolJ]

We do have one senator that supports it, I don't think many support his views however: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-...un-push-rejected-by-opposition-greens/5975210

What's really funny is our PRIME MINISTER seems to lean a little to the "Pro Gun" side. At least the Canadian version of "Pro Gun"
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/18/harper-defends-gun-ownership_n_5846546.html

Most of us think he is crazy(literally) anyway!

 

[sonjay]

A Florida State Trooper pulled over an old 1955 Cadillac the other day for a faulty taillight. When the officer approached the car, he saw a nicely dressed little old lady behind the wheel.

The police officer asked the old lady for her license, registration, and proof of insurance; when she handed her documents to him, he was surprised to see a concealed carry permit as well.

The trooper said, "Mrs. Smith, I see you have a concealed weapon permit. Do you have a gun with you right now?"

The little old lady replied, "Oh, yes officer, I have a Smith & Wesson 38 caliber pistol right here in my bag. Do you want to see it?" And before he could reply, the old lady held out her open handbag and sure enough, he immediately recognized the distinctive snub barrel of a Smith & Wesson 38.

Then he asked her, "Do you have any other guns with you?"

The old lady said, "Well, I also have a 357 magnum in my glove compartment." She opened up the glove compartment to reveal the huge barrel of the .357.

The officer asked: "Anything else?"

To which she replied, "Why, yes, I also have a 44 magnum in my center console, and a Mossberg 500 12 gauge shotgun in the trunk."

The officer then asked, "Ma'am, may I ask you what you are so afraid of?"

The old lady looked the officer straight in the eyes and calmly answered, "Sonny, not a damn thing!"

 

[Brightbird]

BBM

I'm not understanding this comment. If your talking about a convicted felon then it's against the law in the US for them to possess a firearm. Verboten. Not allowed. Forbidden.

That's about as far as you can go with a gun law right?

No, I was thinking more of things like background checks at gun shows, national registration of guns, and things like that. Regulation on the sale of guns. And better enforcement of the laws you already have. There's nothing to stop someone with a clean record selling guns to the black market because of inadequate tracing.

 

[K_Z]

Owning a gun isn't living in fear, it's being prepared.

Agree completely. Being prepared brings a sense of calm and confidence in the face of possible dangerous circumstances, and the unknown. Owning a gun to defend oneself and loved ones against unknown evil brings that calm and confidence for many people. Appropriate levels of preparedness are not paranoid behavior.

An example. I live 2 miles from a large nuclear reactor. We own a Geiger counter, and have automatic text and email alerts set up from online monitoring sites, as well as having other preparedness items, including potassium iodide tablets at home. If I lived hundreds or thousands of miles from a reactor, I'd label that level of preparedness a paranoid and delusional hobby. Living 2 miles from a reactor, and having preparedness items and an evacuation plan, is sensible personal responsibility, IMO.

IMO, every adult that meets eligibility requirements and wants to own firearms, and have a CCW permit, should have them.

I think it's beyond ridiculous to zip a loaded handgun into a handbag that is put in a shopping cart with a two year old. It was a horrible decision about how to carry concealed, IMO. She paid the ultimate price for that decision. Those handbags are not designed to provide any security. Conversely, they facilitate access.

I've always thought the debate that should be happening is the manner in which she chose to carry, not that she chose to carry in the first place.

 

[sonjay]

No, I was thinking more of things like background checks at gun shows, national registration of guns, and things like that. Regulation on the sale of guns. And better enforcement of the laws you already have. There's nothing to stop someone with a clean record selling guns to the black market because of inadequate tracing.

Are you aware that background checks are conducted at gun shows? Contrary to the popular myth, all background-check laws apply exactly the same at gun shows as they do elsewhere.

There will never be national registration of guns.

There are many, many regulations on the sale of guns.

There is much misinformation out there about guns.