GUILTY ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

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  • #61
How exactly was it illegal to use IGG and then go match his DNA with a fresh swab to corroborate? It's done all the time. My cousin's murderer tried a similar tactic and failed.
I don't think it was, not at all. But I was pointing out this is what D is trying to argue in their MsTS and Franks ATM ( some sort of violation of constitutional rights perhaps illegal was wrong word). MsTS hearings coming up on 23rd Jan.
 
  • #62
I don't think it was, not at all. But I was pointing out this is what D is trying to argue in their MsTS and Franks ATM ( some sort of violation of constitutional rights perhaps illegal was wrong word). MsTS hearings coming up on 23rd Jan.
There will be legal challenges to come surrounding what rights one gives up when you join one of the genetic genealogy sites, and how LE uses site data, it goes to the people who are found on a family tree who never submitted there DNA and are found due to a connection to somebody who did upload there DNA,
This is an area where there is little to no case law, it has yet to be litigated,
Another area as I have posted before they are challenging is the broad searches of your phone, defence attorneys will start challenging broad SW and LE will have to specify what they want to search on phone,
We shall see how this plays out over time
 
  • #63
At least his defence team is thoroughly looking at the evidence and will challenge what they can, if only all defence attorneys would do so, plus it leaves the door open for an appeal should anything change about IGG and how it's used by LE, I expect him to be convicted so his only hope IMO is reversible errors
I doubt it will overturn how IGG is used. It's established science now and widely used. The methods are Gold Standard. If it were overturned, it would overturn many, many convictions in this country- including the one of my cousin's murderer. I don't see it happening.
 
  • #64
How will they get the stargazing alibi into evidence without his testimony?
Through the cellular experts/Sy Ray. But jmo, it benefits BK to have that nonsensical non-alibi put forward to a jury in just that manner, almost clinically sterile, and borrowing against the credibility of the expert delivering it. If BK gets up there, though, the "alibi" will look as truly ridiculous as it is. JMO, it'll be simultaneously embarassing and repulsive.

I still think it'll look ridiculous with or without any BK testimony, but waiting.
I just "feel" that if all these hail mary motions fail with the Defense, that the Defense will ask for a plea deal to spare the families crime scene photos presented at the trial.

A "typical" defendant would realize he has only a 5% chance of acquittal and would seek a plea.. However, BK seems to be pretty arrogant so that might not be desired.

just my 2 cents worth
I really, really hope this happens. A trial with evidence like this is a farce, jmo. Can the state refuse to give him a plea deal? Does anyone know? If the answer's yes, I'd fear that may well happen. I imagine we'd be aware of that, or...? Based on what I'm seeing so far, it looks to me like the state can reject such an offer. (Not a lawyer.)
 
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  • #65
Through the cellular experts/Sy Ray. But jmo, it benefits BK to have that nonsensical non-alibi put forward to a jury in just that manner, almost clinically sterile, and borrowing against the credibility of the expert delivering it. If BK gets up there, though, the "alibi" will look as truly ridiculous as it is. JMO, it'll be simultaneously embarassing and repulsive.

I still think it'll look ridiculous with or without any BK testimony, but waiting.

I really, really hope this happens. A trial with evidence like this is a farce, jmo. Can the state refuse to give him a plea deal? Does anyone know? If the answer's yes, I'd fear that may well happen. I imagine we'd be aware of that, or...? Based on what I'm seeing so far, it looks to me like the state can reject such an offer. (Not a lawyer.)

i am just wondering how specifically stargazing could be got into evidence unless somewhere BK has said that. Sy Ray cannot testify to star gazing.
 
  • #66
i am just wondering how specifically stargazing could be got into evidence unless somewhere BK has said that. Sy Ray cannot testify to star gazing.
BK's team already offered the info about the "alibi," though. So if BK actually did take the stand (which it's almost overwhelmingly likely he won't, jmo), wouldn't it be likely he'd bring that up, since they've made it part of his defense? Plus, P can ask him about what Sy Ray has said, right? So I'm thinking they can ask him what he/BK was doing out at xyz point, perhaps. (Not a lawyer.)
 
  • #67
i am just wondering how specifically stargazing could be got into evidence unless somewhere BK has said that. Sy Ray cannot testify to star gazing.
And I daresay there are plenty of meteorologists who can testify to the inability to see any stars that night due to the fog in the area.
 
  • #68
Through the cellular experts/Sy Ray. But jmo, it benefits BK to have that nonsensical non-alibi put forward to a jury in just that manner, almost clinically sterile, and borrowing against the credibility of the expert delivering it. If BK gets up there, though, the "alibi" will look as truly ridiculous as it is. JMO, it'll be simultaneously embarassing and repulsive.

I still think it'll look ridiculous with or without any BK testimony, but waiting.

I really, really hope this happens. A trial with evidence like this is a farce, jmo. Can the state refuse to give him a plea deal? Does anyone know? If the answer's yes, I'd fear that may well happen. I imagine we'd be aware of that, or...? Based on what I'm seeing so far, it looks to me like the state can reject such an offer. (Not a lawyer.)
The State can refuse a plea offer made by the Defense nor do they have to offer one to the Defendant. JMO
 
  • #69
An alternative suspect case is known to be one of the most powerful ways to get a jury to vote for acquittal providing the defense attorney can make sense of what happened including all of the evidence.

There have been studies of the effect of such a defense.
"Participants in all TODDI versions, in which there was an alternative suspect, still believed that the defendant seemed guiltier than any one of the alternative suspects. That is, the TODDI story was never better than the prosecution’s story. Yet, adding one TODDI story decreased the number of participants who rendered guilty verdicts from 73% to 35%, and ratings of the likelihood that the defendant committed the crime decreased as well. Adding the second and third TODDI stories was not statistically significantly better than employing a single TODDI story (although all measures of guilt did decline slightly)."

"The results of the current experiment suggest that in court, the addition of one or more alternative suspects would decrease jurors’ belief in the defendant’s guilt, even when the alternative suspect is not actually believed to be the culprit. (See Tenney, Cleary, & Spellman (2009) for more study details.)"


This is a case where there seems to be a big giant black hole between the time BK's phone was in Pullman to where it was near Genesee after the murders. There does not seem to be a victim identification of BK or any eye witness, video or anything else to place him in Moscow. So, IMO, this is a case where an alternate suspect case could work very well.

I also think that the defense will hit on your 1 - 4 issues as well and the fact that the political pressure was on to make a fast arrest due to UofI Moscow turning into a ghost town in the wake of the murders.

All JMO.
Do they have an alternative suspect, AFAWK?
 
  • #70
Do they have an alternative suspect, AFAWK?

This is why i wondered if we were getting mixed up with SODDI. The defence can always say some other dude did it. But to say some specific person is the real killer is harder.
 
  • #71
What alternate suspect will the defence present?

is there anyone specific or are we just talking generic SODDI
There are whispers on social media of a few potential SODDI scapegoats.

One is a neighbour, a chef with a large knife collection, who did some early press interviews, talking about crashing one of their parties once before. Then a couple of you-tubers started pointing at him publicly, and he left town, I believe.

Lots of talk early on about KG's ex---she had called him a few times and asked him to come over that night but he didn't respond. He lives close enough to walk over, and the dog wouldn't bark at him, so...but I don't see much motive.

And if they want to go full conspiracy theory---an ex roommate and her boyfriend were arrested for selling drugs and it's rumoured she still sold drugs out of that house sometimes. Many on SM platforms are high on this SODDI theory.

They'd have to file a motion to get this SODDI evidence admitted though---correct?
 
  • #72
I think #2 will be big for the defense and that AT plans to take this all the way to the Supreme Court.
I have a hard time believing that the Supreme Court is going to rule against IGG in this case and let a quadruple murder suspect walk away when they have his DNA on the knife sheath. IDK
 
  • #73
How exactly was it illegal to use IGG and then go match his DNA with a fresh swab to corroborate? It's done all the time. My cousin's murderer tried a similar tactic and failed.
Agreed - I think the Defense is trying to paint a picture of LE concentrating solely on BK to the exclusion of all others by raising doubt about the timing of the car model year being expanded and the IGG results being made to intentionally 'fit' BK.

Never mind the other stack of evidence against him, which includes the buccal swab taken at arrest that produced a single source STR DNA match to BK in the 5+ Octillion range from the knife sheath left at the murder scene. The Defense is saying LE wouldn't have gotten an arrest if not for misleading and misstating in the PCA.

Jurors love DNA, so AT is trying her damndest to make it questionable. I do not believe she will be successful in this effort.

JMO
 
  • #74
3) BK: “I bought a knife with a sheath just like that. Of course my DNA was on it. I left it in the drawer of my desk at college and the next day it was gone! I didn’t report it because it wasn’t that expensive and I was stupid for having left it there. LE should have investigated the students and janitorial staff with access to that classroom.”

Yeah, that’s the ticket.

And whoever stole it only touched it with gloves on from then until after the murders?
 
  • #75
I have a hard time believing that the Supreme Court is going to rule against IGG in this case and let a quadruple murder suspect walk away when they have his DNA on the knife sheath. IDK

Well in any event, it won't go to the Supreme Court before trial IMO
 
  • #76
"And - how's this for a coincidence? - right after that my car was stolen overnight, and - would you believe it? - I had left my phone in it! Sheesh, how unlucky can you get?!"
"But then, strangely enough, my car reappeared in my parking spot, and I was able to drive it to the grocery store in Moscow the next morning. "

[there is cctv of him in his car at the Ralphs mkt]
 
  • #77
There are whispers on social media of a few potential SODDI scapegoats.

One is a neighbour, a chef with a large knife collection, who did some early press interviews, talking about crashing one of their parties once before. Then a couple of you-tubers started pointing at him publicly, and he left town, I believe.

Lots of talk early on about KG's ex---she had called him a few times and asked him to come over that night but he didn't respond. He lives close enough to walk over, and the dog wouldn't bark at him, so...but I don't see much motive.

And if they want to go full conspiracy theory---an ex roommate and her boyfriend were arrested for selling drugs and it's rumoured she still sold drugs out of that house sometimes. Many on SM platforms are high on this SODDI theory.

They'd have to file a motion to get this SODDI evidence admitted though---correct?
I think the D would have presented these as a possible SODDI alibi rather than BK just star gazing if there were any legitimacy to them. I believe that the people you mentioned have been investigated and cleared by LE.

The Judge in Delphi wouldn't allow SODDI info to come in unless there was a provable nexus to the crime thank goodness.

JMO
 
  • #78
For the alibi defense, IIRC, BK's attorney indicated that the witness (or witnesses) to BK's alibi defense are actually witnesses for the prosecution and that she would call upon them at trial to provide testimony that supports BK's alibi defense.

Also, IIRC, AT also requested an ex parte hearing with Judge Judge to discuss the issue. Not sure if the ex parte hearing ever took place.
I think AT was referring to Sy Ray, when she said some P witnesses would provide alibi evidence. A la BK was really in the big park stargazing, according to the phone evidence, etc?
 
  • #79
I think AT was referring to Sy Ray, when she said some P witnesses would provide alibi evidence. A la BK was really in the big park stargazing, according to the phone evidence, etc?

I get that Sy Ray could attempt to provide evidence that BK was lurking somewhere else in the dead of night - which is an alibi of sorts.

I just don't get how he'd be able to say what BK was doing there. "Star gazing" seems like testimony by counsel. You'd need some other witness to say BK had the hobby of star gazing?
 
  • #80
I get that Sy Ray could attempt to provide evidence that BK was lurking somewhere else in the dead of night - which is an alibi of sorts.

I just don't get how he'd be able to say what BK was doing there. "Star gazing" seems like testimony by counsel. You'd need some other witness to say BK had the hobby of star gazing?
Once the expert has "established" this "somewhere else," though, and asserted that BK was there, if BK took the stand (which I'm sure he never will), couldn't the prosecutor ask him what he was doing at xyz "established" point?
 
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