ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

[AgithaBoots]

Also from a medical perspective and being purely speculative - (I've done around a year of forensics medicine in med school - so I'm not v experienced in this regard), but it's possible that some of the victims did not die immediately. Depending on the # of wounds/depth/location, they could've been *alive(in the clinical sense - but unable to move)* for a while. I wish someone had come by the scene earlier and maybe there would've been a chance for even one of them?
My personal opinion is that someone had been watching them that day after 1am. I believe the surviving room mates were home by 1am and he may not have seen them entering. He was probably watching the house sometime after 1am and saw the 4 victims enter, waited for lights out and then entered.
Again this is purely speculative and just my personal opinion.

But reports from X dad places her and E home 12:00 they left frat party 9- 10pm she calls dad 12pm saying we are home hanging out ( dont remember source news channel but was what her dad said) then reports claim surviving roommates get home at 1 am K and M do not arrive till 1:55? So was there a party going on when k and m got home? ( survivors locked door because of party noise they got home before K andM) Im just thinking my thoughts only but these times are what ive read in news reports and just speculating my own thoughts

 

[positive]

I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure your point. If their behavior is not sus, it is irrelevant.
I have two college age kids, they are to call 911 as a dead friend doesn’t get the chance to thank you for covering for their stupid behavior.
So, I’m not defending it, I just understand how kids this age may think

My only point is, that in my opinion, not even concerning this case, it is not up to a relative to decide wether or not to call for medical assistance. Thats it.
If a person needes medical assistance 911 should be called.

 

[AneutherSleuther]

From my personal experience, dogs don't always act the way you suspect during a crime.

Dog could have been in any one of the rooms. Maybe sleeping with another room mate. My friends and I did that.

Myself I have a dog that barks a lot, great guard dog. When I was attacked (violent, very violent attack and person was familiar to my dog) my dog did nothing. He didn't bark, he didn't attack. He sat by my side looking into my eyes staying beside me beside the bed. When I got my chance to run, he ran with me. Still never barked or attacked. He was more making sure to stay there with me till the end.

It gets frustrating to read over and over how dogs are supposed to act in an attack or crime based on what people see in movies. Truth is every situation and dog is different.

Agreed, and to be clear I am not making assumptions about the behaviour of K’s dog, I know nothing about dogs really, but more about how the perp might think. Killing the dog would seem like a very simple and easy thing to do for someone comfortable with slaying 4 young people, and would reduce the risk of drawing attention to a crime in progress. I cannot fathom how the dog survived unless it wasn’t there. Especially, as per a PP, if it’s the same person who killed Buddy.

I am sorry for your experience, it sounds horrific.

 

[layer]

The frequent calls aren't suspicious, neither is her ability to land a good job, buy a range rover, or plan a trip to Europe. She was a young 20-something full of life.

The calls don't strike me as frivolous, I really think they were calling for help. Sort of like the survivors called for help the next morning. But we might never know...

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Thought...has anyone seem whether the property manager was advertising for new tenants for the 2 empty bedrooms? If so, it's possible a perpetrator could have been shown the house and would have known the complete layout.

AFAIK, this iconic house is rented out as a house for roommates, not individual bedrooms in a house. Not to say the PM doesn’t allow subs if roommates bail, but it would all be through the PM company. They don’t care about how the rent is split amongst roommates - just that the full amount is paid every month. Unlike some apartments that will lock bedroom doors off if someone needs a 1 or 2 bedroom when only 3 are available, that doesn’t happen with this house.

No rooms listed as available, nor is the property available.

I know y’all know much more than me (I’ve tried to keep up), but I’m unsure where the idea that K had moved out comes from? She was a senior, yes? And graduation isn’t until 12/10 - seems odd she would move out before graduation festivities, although certainly she might have planned to start moving some things home this week during fall break. Her family home is 90 miles or so from here & kids run home all the time for long weekends, etc, when home is that close.

JMHO having lived in this college town for decades.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

Reposting this. The steep hill at the back of the house would make it easy for someone to see directly into the bedrooms on the second and third floors at the back of the house. There is a 30-40 foot difference in elevation between the front of the house and the road/parking behind the house.

Each blue line indicates 10 feet elevation increase.

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Latah County

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Ok so where would the blood stains near the vacant room come from?

 

[AngTxGal]

Ok so where would the blood stains near the vacant room come from?

I wondered if someone could jump onto the balcony, or climb there from a tree on that high side?

 

[SyraKelly]

First of all, I was referring to the updated timeline that was posted on here. The estimated time of death was changed. Was just curious about the change. Also how do the police know the girls went to bed after the phone calls? Were they there? No.
Secondly, I think the tone of your comment was unnecessary. I was simply asking a question.

Thank you.. Why do people tell others what they can or shouldn't post or their observations are wrong or silly. We all see things differently. We are posting about what we know about the case.

 

[elmomom]

Given that location on the outskirts of town, near what look like natural or cultivated fields, I highly suspect Buddy and the rabbit were attacked by coyotes.

I live on the outside edge of a metropolitan area, with some similar area nearby and occasionally see individual coyotes in some of the natural walking trail parks here (especially at dusk). And when I take my own dogs out into my own yard at night, I can sometimes hear packs of coyotes whooping and yelping as they hunt at night down below the plateau I live on. The sounds send my two 60-lb dogs running for the door and I’m right there with them!

Around here, they typically kill small dogs, cats, and rabbits. But, when in packs, they will go after larger animals that are alone.

I advise you should read the article before commenting. This was not coyotes.

 

[justtrish]

This is all just speculation, but maybe (hopefully) the surviving roommates didn't see any of their deceased roommates Sunday morning. Maybe they tried to get into the bedrooms but they were all locked. With them being such close friends, I'd assume they followed each other's locations on Find My Friends. If your roommates' doors were locked and they weren't answering when you yelled and/or knocked, you'd probably check your phone to see their location. Realizing their phones at the house and their friends were likely in the locked rooms, maybe they called friends to come get the doors open and eventually called 911 when they realized something was likely wrong? This is probably wishful thinking on my part, but it would be a better scenario than what those poor girls might have seen.

Might also be why friends and/or family were called first. I can see college kids thinking they are over reacting or not knowing if they should call 911 and having someone else come over before calling. This is assuming it was just locked bedroom doors and they were unable to get an answer or a response via text or knocking on the door. I can even see how it would be reported as someone is unconscious. I am sure they assumed everyone had partied late and was sleeping. Then there became a point when that seemed unlikely or they wondered if someone was either OD's or ill because of alcohol, etc. I can see being unsure if they should call 911 because what if they are wrong and then they all get in trouble or something. I can even see why maybe a sibling of the young man was called because I'd feel better if I was unsure what to do and if I was over reacting with the siblings of one of my roommates making the decision to call 911. Then if they weren't harmed, it wasn't me the friend that got them in trouble, but the sibling. This is all MOO. I think 20 year old me may have reacted the same way they did (again assuming there was not a body in plain view that had obvious injuries and blood everywhere), but 40+ year old mom me would react a very different way.

 

[mfmfan77]

But reports from X dad places her and E home 12:00 they left frat party 9- 10pm she calls dad 12pm saying we are home hanging out ( dont remember source news channel but was what her dad said) then reports claim surviving roommates get home at 1 am K and M do not arrive till 1:55? So was there a party going on when k and m got home? ( survivors locked door because of party noise they got home before K andM) Im just thinking my thoughts only but these times are what ive read in news reports and just speculating my own thoughts

This is a good thought. Maybe X and E decided to have a party at the house and the surviving roommates got home, decided to go to bed, and locked the doors behind them. When K and M got home, maybe they called J to see if he would want to come to the party? Maybe a friend of his was there? I hadn't considered an active scenario when the girls got back from the food truck, but it's possible.

 

[Curiosa20]

This is a very informative interview done last night by Rosemary Church, CNN anchor, regarding the investigation and FBI subject profiling.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594594101936414721

 

[layer]

I know y’all know much more than me (I’ve tried to keep up), but I’m unsure where the idea that K had moved out comes from? She was a senior, yes? And graduation isn’t until 12/10 - seems odd she would move out before graduation festivities, although certainly she might have planned to start moving some things home this week during fall break.

I am one of the ones that doesn't know anything more than you. But I have seen it reported that she had moved back home, and only came for the weekend to visit and show off her new car. Unsure of the accuracy of that reporting, though.

 

[rescuemom]

Jumping in here while waiting for another trial to wrap up in the Ohio 2016 murders of 8 family members by another family of 4. After 6+ yrs of investigation and many, many, many sleuther scenarios we are finally finding out the true story of how it happened and why and how far we were from the truth because LE is much smarter than we are and do not tell the public what they know and "journalists" are looking for a gothcha moment and most times don't even know the victims names or the back story. My point is that we as rational people cannot and do not think like a killer so we can drive ourselves nuts in the meantime.

IMO, this sounds like a crime of anger or passion - sort of overkill - by some one who is close to the victims, not a stranger or serial killer. Close, I mean someone who knows 3,4, or all of the victims and occupants of the house and for whatever reason targeted them. If there were parties or couch surfers at the house at one time or another, the killer may have been someone on the periphery, some one who was a friend of a friend who not really knowing them, took an interest, then stalked, was rebuffed, or is delusional or manic, etc. Or it could be someone closer to them who acted in a fit of anger or jealousy.

I have and am very close to 10 grandchildren, age 18-31, 5 boys, 5 girls, 6 who have graduated college -- and 2 who are currently in the roommate situation of renting both on and off campus housing in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, New York and Florida. The stories I could tell -- even if I didn't want to hear them!!! I do have experience with college age kids and their habits both on and off their social networks. Point is you don't know what you don't know until it is too uncomfortable and too late.

I have just skimmed the 7 threads here after hearing about the murders last week, so I'm certainly not on top of this, so if you will be patient with me I have some questions that will help me get up to date.TIA!!

Does anyone know if all of the roommates knew each other before becoming roommates or was it a situation where they just needed to fill the house for rental purposes? Some roommates socialize some don't.

How long has this roommate situation existed?

How many worked full/part time? Schedules had to be chaotic among the roommates.

Who has been "cleared" by LE as not being a person of interest?

I'm confused by the bf or ex bf J, are there 2 Js and whose bf or ex bf? If he/they have been cleared I would be interested why he did not respond to the phone calls or texts.

Are FBI or Idaho State Investigators involved? They usually begin with inner circle of the victims and work outward

Most bedrooms have a lock on the door but were these kids in the habit of locking up the main doors for the night??

If I understand from what I have read, was it Kaylee who was not living at the house full time anymore?? If so, someone had to know she would be at the house that night if she was a target.

Do the roommates have a buddy locator on their phones for each other or do they let each other know if they are not coming home for the night or weekend? If not, seeing a closed bedroom door upon waking up would not be a big deal to the others.

Was there evidence left/found in the main space of the house??

Has the dog been located?

 

[AngTxGal]

Ok so where would the blood stains near the vacant room come from?

I think it is an easy fix, E and X were in the bedroom marked vacant.
If one of the two from the basement “saw a roommate” and thought they were passed out, they did not see E if it was a ‘roommate’. So it was X they saw, or K or M on the stairs?
The coroner said some died in the bed- I’m thinking that was K and M
X is to have defense wounds- maybe she was in the RR and returned to find the killer on E?
If that is blood seeping, it could be E’s
MOO
Prayers for the families, and friends, and school and community, this is heartbreaking to imagine what everyone is enduring

 

[Deleted member 718]

I agree. I think someone was planning this for weeks or even months. The last couple weeks before holiday break so everyone can go home early

Maybe... I'm picturing more of a spontaneous rage killing. Example: the multiple stabs wounds on each person when a slice across the neck would suffice.

 

[mry123]

I

Interesting theory. What do you think is the overall motivation?

Think it's difficult to say. I'd need to know more about the crime scene/bodies and method of entry/exit from the house. I'd also need to know the sequence of murders - which floor he first killed on? It would change my theory if he went to the 2nd floor occupants first etc.
I would want to know if he had made any attempt to open the door leading to the basement?
Could be completely random + opportunistic because his point of vantage gave him the best view of that particular house?!
Could be someone that knew them but who they did not know (someone keeping tabs on them but was jealous of them?)

 

[SteveP]

Here is the thing...cops from this town saying one of the bloodiest crimes scenes they've ever seen isn's saying much....how many of these cops have even been a part of a murder case at all, let alone something like this. We are talking about Moscow, Idaho. Most of these LEs haven't encountered many gruesome crimes. That's not a slight to the LE in the area - they live in a beautiful, low-crime area. That's not their fault.

Respectfully, four adults were brutally stabbed to death in the house, and all apparently bled out. An average adult has between 1.2 and 1.5 gallons of blood, so around 5-6 gallons of blood was spilled somewhere in that house. I doubt that bed linens absorbed it all, and even if it did, there would have been huge saturated areas of blood, and the victims would likely have been covered in blood. I think very many cops from large, urban departments would probably say the same thing, if they were called to such a scene as these cops were. I have little doubt that it looked like a house of horrors. JMO

 

[rescuemom]

You can search for images of animals killed by coyotes and see similar…but I don’t recommend it.

I’d prefer to see a wildlife official opine on whether Buddy likely fell victim to coyotes (or other wildlife) before LE invests much into the theory the Buddy death is related.

Oh no, is this the dog that got loose???

 

[jennytrevor]

I have seen some good recent posts about the behavior of dogs whose owners are being attacked. However, I think anyone who's still questioning that it's possible for a dog to be quiet/not alert the other roommates in a scenario like that should watch this video:

Many dogs do not have it in their temperament to fight back and be aggressive with an intruder. Just a personal annecdote, but as a runner I have been chased by quite a few territorial strays and loose dogs who have run at me barking and growling. All I've ever had to do is pretend to throw something at them and every single one has run away.

I think that the intruder merely had to aggressively move at the dog or possible kick him to get him to leave him alone. I would bet that he cowered or hid during the attacks, maybe letting out only one or two initial barks before being scared into silence.