ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 9

[OldCop]

It is so frustrating that we don’t have an arrest or a POI yet. But, before we decide that LE has botched the investigation, let’s play “What if”. What if this perp has never been arrested? What if this perp was never in the military or in any career where his dna or fingerprints were recorded? What if this perp had no prior relationship with any of the victims? What if this perp is just some psycho with a will to kill? What if this perp was a peeping Tom who got his rocks off watching the girls who lived in this house from the woods in the back? What if this perp had a building urge that he could no longer contain?
Now, put yourself in the shoes of the investigators. The scene is a nightmare. There is evidence everywhere. You are collecting everything you’ve got; dna, digital info, acquaintances of the victims, tips to run down, etc, etc. But there are no connections!
The most difficult cases to solve are those wherein the perpetrator has no relationship to the victim. It is even more difficult when the perp has no prior record. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Please consider that even if this suspect had some kind of obsession with one of the victims, maybe no one even knew this besides himself.
We all want answers. I think LE is throwing everything they’ve got at it. Let’s pray that they get the break they need.

 

[meldga]

Besides being a long time member and rare poster ..I'm old...and I must say that this has a Ted Bundy Chi Omega feel to it. He, in his psychopathically deranged state, managed to raise hell at that sorority house on multiple victims. I may be wrong (I often am), but that's where my head is this evening .

Right there with you Yepper Bepper. I attended FSU in the 80s and the horror of Bundy's attack at ChiO was still felt all over that campus. Then, while I was still in college, the Rollins attacks started at UF 2 hours away. This reminds me of those murders so much and reminds me of how scary it was to be a student even nearby. I know how scared those poor IU kids must be. There wasn't any rhyme or reason to any of those murders and I'm worried that may be the case here.

 

[Stunned]

If the people were locked in their rooms and not responding, you could knock and then call other friends, "Hey is Ethan with you?" They come over and eventually you figure they must be in there, unconscious, call 911.

That makes the most sense yet! I’d be freaking there was a gas leak or something! But they’re young,so probably not their first thought. IMO

 

[MyJoey]

I would like to know what evidence could the suspect leave behind? Blood, prints, hair. I believe from the wounds they would be able to tell if the person was left or right handed. What am I missing? Sad part is if this person don’t have a record and he’s not on the polices radar, it’s going to be hard to get him.

 

[Blue_Painting]

It is so frustrating that we don’t have an arrest or a POI yet. But, before we decide that LE has botched the investigation, let’s play “What if”. What if this perp has never been arrested? What if this perp was never in the military or in any career where his dna or fingerprints were recorded? What if this perp had no prior relationship with any of the victims? What if this perp is just some psycho with a will to kill? What if this perp was a peeping Tom who got his rocks off watching the girls who lived in this house from the woods in the back? What if this perp had a building urge that he could no longer contain?
Now, put yourself in the shoes of the investigators. The scene is a nightmare. There is evidence everywhere. You are collecting everything you’ve got; dna, digital info, acquaintances of the victims, tips to run down, etc, etc. But there are no connections!
The most difficult cases to solve are those wherein the perpetrator has no relationship to the victim. It is even more difficult when the perp has no prior record. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Please consider that even if this suspect had some kind of obsession with one of the victims, maybe no one even knew this besides himself.
We all want answers. I think LE is throwing everything they’ve got at it. Let’s pray that they get the break they need.

Yes, and while there is certainly physical evidence, circumstantial evidence is often the most damning and incriminating. imo.

 

[kittythehare]

Longtime member. Rare poster.

Agreed. I read somewhere on these threads that it was a big weekend in the area for college football. Lots of celebrating, visiting and partying.. and college kids are great at all 3.

Besides being a long time member and rare poster ..I'm old...and I must say that this has a Ted Bundy Chi Omega feel to it. He, in his psychopathically deranged state, managed to raise hell at that sorority house on multiple victims. I may be wrong (I often am), but that's where my head is this evening .

(Ps. Thanks for great links and posts. You people rock.)

(Pss. If any family or friends are reading or posting here....I'm so very sorry.)

Nice to see you and a warm welcome to you.
I have zero sense of who or what perp is though I think I read everything.

I'm interested in how he used that knife and what if any professions or skill sets are known to wield aa knife in such a manner.

I have a sense perp waited for some time after the phone calling ended, he was possibly concealed and close enough to have heard them. Based on no known fact.

I have a sense he was fast and focused , based on no fact.

The only wild card for me based on K's mum's interview stating K was an online sleuth is the question of whether she got too close, possibly took it real life and this was the upshot?
It might be interesting to know what types of cases drew her..
Purely wild speculation on my part and I have every confidence that L E have covered every base possible including this.

They've got this.
It's a mega case.

He's well profiled by now including his knife style..
They'll talk when they're ready.
I can wait.

 

[MyJoey]

I would really like to know if the suspect cleaned up in the sink before leaving. That would be a definite sign of the person not knowing others were in the house.

 

[Cedarsage]

We haven’t heard anything more about the persons(s) who drove the students home that night. We‘ve heard about other people who were in contact with them, why not the driver? Do you think they are focusing on the driver?

 

[Mayboy1998]

I would like to know what evidence could the suspect leave behind? Blood, prints, hair. I believe from the wounds they would be able to tell if the person was left or right handed. What am I missing? Sad part is if this person don’t have a record and he’s not on the polices radar, it’s going to be hard to get him.

^^This

Plus, What is a timetable for this kind of DNA evidence? I find it hard to believe the perp could commit 4 different murders and not leave any distinguishable DNA.

 

[Jerlock]

I’ve been following this from the first thread and just have to throw a few things out there that, IMO, are keys to this. I’m taking the side of the perp being known to the victims

- The 2 Roommates - Grouping them together because we don’t know anything about them really other than they were there. We know they were in a room whether same or separate we don’t know. What did they hear as they went in their rooms until they went to sleep? What did they know about the victims plans before or after the murders? And the question that leads me to the next key; what did they know about the (KG’s) dog?

- The Dog - Everyone keeps asking about what the dog would do but not what the plans of the dog were. The last known (by sleuths) communication by the victims are the calls/texts to JD. With a text concerning the dog. Did KG have the dog while out of town? If not, where was the dog before KG got back into town? IMO the dog during time of murders could have been left outside and I don’t want to speculate on its intentions. Does the dog have a chip? Knowledge of its whereabouts would clear some speculation of the last texts.

- Communications and Video - Cell phones, WiFi, cameras, etc. The communication amongst the victims is something we know nothing about and could reveal the most. The roommates communication with the victims. Pictures of victims (or roommates) that were or weren’t posted.

Those are my keys and I am really rooting for LE in this one.

 

[Mayboy1998]

We haven’t heard anything more about the persons(s) who drove the students home that night. We‘ve heard about other people who were in contact with them, why not the driver? Do you think they are focusing on the driver?

Driver I believe has been cleared by LE.

 

[PolarButterflie]

This is my question as well. It certainly looks like blood - color, coagulation - but doesn’t seem to be treated as such by investigators. Unless something has changed in the last couple of days, I haven’t seen any evidence markers near it, nor has there been any attempt to cover it (either for preservation or out of sensitivity to the families).

It could be that the police feel that it doesn't have any evidentiary value outside of just showing how grisly the crime was. It could also be that no photos or film were taken during the time it was marked and photographed.

Trying to cover it now really wouldn't accomplish much with the photo plastered all over the internet.

 

[kittythehare]

“fixed blade knife”

@RaniaKaur

This is the latest update from Moscow Police Department about the U of I murder investigation. Anyone with any information, including about Kaylee Goncalves possible stalker, is asked to contact the tip line:

Could someone please clarify meaning of 'fixed blade' , please?
Would it be something like a bread knife or a cleaver?

 

[Sleuthchik7]

I'm stuck on the initial LE statement, this was targeted. There is a reason they said that. Something was at the scene to indicate this. I cringe to think what that might

It’s totally different! When you buy someone a drink at a bar, the intention is to hang out with them, get their number, potentially more. These guys are just online watching the girls come order food at a food truck. There’s no direct contact or expectation. If you watch the twitch stream, one of the dudes pays for an earlier girl’s order who says “my boyfriend is right there!” & the person says something along the lines of “I struck out once I’ve gotta try again. Not gonna strike out twice tonight”. I just found it extremely weird. Not to mention the fact the stream is INCREDIBLY boring.

Wait a minute…So guy’s are watching a video of girls at a food truck or standing around the food truck and offering to buy their food (not sure how if they are remote) and then these guys want nothing in return? Just to pay for their food? What am I missing here? Aside from some free food?I can’t get over this. Lol

 

[Cedarsage]

Driver I believe has been cleared by LE.

Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[branmuffin]

The only way I can think of that LE ID's the knife type is maybe the killer wiped the blade off on a bed sheet or other cloth item and they have an outline. But as stated earlier, I doubt there is anything there detailed enough to tell what the make - KA-BAR, Cold Steel, Ontario, Case, etc. - it is. KA-BAR is probably the make most people recognize.

There's a lot of ways that forensics can identify whether a weapon was a straight-edge knife vs a serrated blade. Ka bar makes both straight-edge and serrated blades. I presume there is evidence of a serrated blade and perhaps LE should clarify that the weapon was Ka-bar-like unless there is obvious clues left behind to turn their focus to that brand.

If someone is stabbed while wearing clothing (and we don't know whether the victims were clothed or not) a sharp straight-edged blade will slice right through the material whether it's cotton, wool or nylon whereas a serrated blade knife will catch on the weave of the fabric leaving a rough edge, perhaps even leaving fine filament on the blade or hilt if LE is lucky enough to find the weapon. That serration can also leave a rough edge on a stab wound as well. You can also identify whether a knife has a hilt or not, based on the bruising patterns and the force the injury was inflicted. Same thing with a knife with a partly serrated blade near the hilt. There are many images of fatal knife wounds to support this. I know a lot of people don't like to look at those things so I'll leave it up to curious WSers who want to identify the difference.

I also think it's possible that the initial 911 call that mentioned an unconscious individual may have been because that particular victim was found in a position that may have caused very little blood to be found outside of the body. When people experience blunt trauma to the chest area (like a stab wound) it can cause a pneumothorax which is when a lung or lungs are perforated causing a collapse inside the chest cavity. If the subject breathes the air enters the chest cavity causing the lungs to collapse. Blood can pool inside the pleural cavity rather than exiting the body. If arteries are involved then blood loss can happen quickly and the heart stops beating.

 

[OldCop]

Does anyone have any ideas as to how it is humanly possible that the two roommates didn’t get woken up by this commotion? 4 people getting stabbed to death and nobody calls 911 until 11am the next day? What am I missing?

I’m not sure there was a lot of “commotion”. The bottom floor, where it seems the surviving roommates lived, was offset from the upper floors. Supposedly, they were in their rooms, maybe sleeping or trying to. They lived in a “party house”. People were always coming and going, and there was always lots of noise. Unless there was loud screaming, I don’t think they would consider most noise as unusual. Furthermore, having had college kids myself as well as nieces and nephews, it was not unusual for them to sleep ‘til noon or after whenever they got the chance. I know a lot of folks think that this is unusual, but it doesn’t surprise me at all.

 

[Strong1]

After much thought I don't think the random stranger theory is very plausible. I think that the killer knew at least one or all of the victims. You really have to look at the connections the victims had. True, they were roommates, but they also were connected in Greek life, they probably all attended the same bars and other places. That is a lot of contact by each victim to others not in their circle. So that blanket is very big. Some person or persons they knew, most likely did this. Was it an former boyfriend or girlfriend? Could it have been a casual acquaintance? Someone that felt they were slighted by one of the victims? I don't believe that the killer was part of their circle but rather someone on the outside. The info we have received on the crime scene suggests a possible rage type of murder. Those aren't normally done by strangers.

 

[RetiredEE]

Could someone please clarify meaning of 'fixed blade' , please?
Would it be something like a bread knife or a cleaver?

As opposed to a folding-blade knife (pocketknife)

See Knives For Sale — Unique Selection | SMKW | SMKW for numerous examples

 

[Deleted member 718]

FWIW - All this time I've pictured them being stabbed while laying face up because the coroner said chest wounds. But I seldom sleep on my back especially if I've had drinks or I've snuggled next to my partner. It could be why some didn't show defense wounds.

It would still chest wounds, just rear entry.